Question for Hizikyah, or Others

[Sirk]

Given that we are made up of spirit soul and body....this thread begs the question. Which is the eternal part of you?

 

[Jeff_56]

tidbits
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all of me (once this temporal tent of flesh is exchanged / transformed/ as Yahweh Wills and Says)
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Given that we are made up of spirit soul and body....this thread begs the question. Which is the eternal part of you?

 

[john832]

Given that we are made up of spirit soul and body....this thread begs the question. Which is the eternal part of you?

Nothing unless the Holy Spirit is in you.

 

[newbirth]

No, Paul is true, Who do you think does the preserving? Yourself or God?

By your words, you preach yourself.

By my faith, I preach God.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

I am perfected in Christ,

At the same time, God is working in me to sanctify me

Again, if you are perfect, You are no longer being sanctified, you have made it, Your just as Good as Jesus,,

woe to the one who claims this, that he no longer needs to grow

you guys want to crucify me when I say I am perfect in Christ...and say no one can be perfect....when I show the scripture you change your tune...that is what I call bandwagonism...now you say you are perfect and I am not perfect...
I post the scripture...and you tell me I am opposed to the scripture....don't just say it prove where I preach myself....
did you know that you are expected to keep yourself in sanctification and honour ...or am I preaching self...or is Paul teaching self???
1 Thessalonians 4:4
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

 

[newbirth]

Given that we are made up of spirit soul and body....this thread begs the question. Which is the eternal part of you?

what you fail to realise friend is that eternal life is in Christ.....and only if Christ is in you and you are in him do you have eternal life....
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[Sirk]

what you fail to realise friend is that eternal life is in Christ.....and only if Christ is in you and you are in him do you have eternal life....
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

So now you are getting into the question of whether humans are a dichotomy or a trichotomy.

 

[Sirk]

what you fail to realise friend is that eternal life is in Christ.....and only if Christ is in you and you are in him do you have eternal life....
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

btw.....I do not fail to realize that eternal life is in Christ at all. You're saying something about me that is not true.

 

[p_rehbein]

Given that we are made up of spirit soul and body....this thread begs the question. Which is the eternal part of you?

HEY, WAIT A SEC HERE.............THIS THREAD has not one thing to do with all the jibber jabber that is being posted on it.

Seriously.....................folks hijacking a thread to run with all their OSAS and other stuff does not constitute what this thread was intended for.

Just saying..............

 

[Sirk]

HEY, WAIT A SEC HERE.............THIS THREAD has not one thing to do with all the jibber jabber that is being posted on it.

Seriously.....................folks hijacking a thread to run with all their OSAS and other stuff does not constitute what this thread was intended for.

Just saying..............

so you single me out? I'm just following the conversation.

 

[Splagna]

[/COLOR]Wrong, He says whoever has believed in him will never die and has in possession eternal life.

if it can be lost, then Jesus lied. because they can still die, and do not have in possession a life jesus said was eternal in length (never ending)



Yet that is not what it says, It says whoever believes (it had to be present tense at one time in his life) will never perish (never die) but has in his possession eternal life.

Again, if one can still die, he does not have eternal life, If anything he has just plain life.

the words never and eternal are the key words here, you make never and eternal not mean what they literally mean in your belief that they can stop .

You’re totally ignoring correct Greek grammar to make your point. And because you’re ignoring proper grammar you’re assertions are lacking.

Wrong, He says whoever has believed in him will never die and has in possession eternal life.

Wrong!!! He did not say whoever has believed in Him.

Yet that is not what it says, It says whoever believes (it had to be present tense at one time in his life) will never perish (never die) but has in his possession eternal life.

Whoever believes is a reasonable translation based on the Greek, but to say “it had to be present tense at one time in his life” is ignoring the full force of the verb. If Jesus wanted to say that, He would have most likely used the perfect tense. Instead, He used a present, active, participle which is emphasizing continuous action.

the words never and eternal are the key words here, you make never and eternal not mean what they literally mean in your belief that they can stop .

I agree that the words never parish and eternal are key words, but that’s where our consensus ends. I’ve already handled “never parish” with plausibly correct Greek grammar, so I’m not going to rehash it.
However, it appears your definition of eternal life is skewed.

In John 17:3 Jesus defines eternal life:
This is eternal life, that they may know (ginōskō/γινώσκω )You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.(NASB)

One of the key words here is the Greek word ginōskō, translated into the English as to know.

In 1 John 2:3-5 to know God is to keep His commandments: By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.(NASB)

1 John 4:7, 8 tells us to know God is to know love and practice love: Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (NASB)

In John 5:20 the writer informs us that Jesus came to we can understand and know God; the true God Who is eternal life: And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. (NASB)

Based on Jesus’ definition of eternal life in John 17:3, it can be seen that the definition has a deeper theological meaning than simply taking it literally.

So going back to the interpretation of John 3:16 it can be seen that Jesus was saying that the one who continues to trust (present/active/participle pisteuō) in Jesus will have God, for He is the true God and eternal life.

 

[Ugly]

so you single me out? I'm just following the conversation.

*looks for where you, or any one person, was singled out... but just can't find it.

 

[Sirk]

*looks for where you, or any one person, was singled out... but just can't find it.

How bout right in front of you where he quoted me?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well this leads back to the Greek meanings and context, which states a continuation of belief and to have in hand as a mental possession, not a physical possession yet.........

No, Greek says you have a physical possession (HAS ETERNAL LIFE) is what Jesus said in john 3: 16. one can not have it, if it is not in their possession.



you keep bringing this up yet this is not speaking of eternal life but ohysical life, the end here is the end of the age. not the end of your life. talk about twisting.

As for those who do Gods will, no one can do gods will UNTIL THEY ARE SAVED, it is impossible, a natural man can not do the things of God, for he can not comprehend the things of God, everything he does will be of a carnal nature. because it is self motivated.

You slam people for saying they can be born again before they do anything, when scripture states you can do nothing but unrighteousness UNTIL you are born again.

Do we really need to go this route again, as I have already more than once before showed how echo means mental possession, and not physical possession. As it says to have in hand as in mental possession.

Definition

1. to have, i.e. to hold
   1. to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.), to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as
2. to have

And the Lord is not talking about physical life in those verses I gave, and you can see that by cross reference scripture;

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

Exactly where does it say in that verse that they loose salvation?

The whole context of the chapter in 1 Timothy is about continuing in your faith and gifts given to you, and the final scripture in that chapter says to persist (continue) in them and you will save both yourself and those who hear what you say. To not continue or persist in those things means you are not saved, and have fallen from the faith, just like the Galatians that Paul told them they had fallen from grace.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Given that we are made up of spirit soul and body....this thread begs the question. Which is the eternal part of you?

Neither unless you are in Christ Jesus and He in you, and that is done by having faith in Him and in what He said. Continuing to walk as He said you are to walk, and that Paul gave more insight into........Only then do you escape spiritual death at the first resurrection.....

It is amazing how some take and act as if nothing is required of us, when the bible spends over half of the NT telling us how to walk and how not to !!!

 

[Sirk]

sometimes explaining something to someone is like dissecting a frog....you understand it better but the frog dies in the process.

 

[Splagna]

Do you think a defiant sinner would ever be saved? Then, Do you think a child of God can be defiant?

A defient sinner is one who rejected the law. and did what he wanted.. Not a person who commited certain sins, do you even study?

I study Scripture but you don't seem to understand it. A member of the assembly of Israel enjoyed all the blessings of God until he became defiant. Then he was removed from the assembly of God.

In the NT we are told to resist (Eph. 6:13; James 4:7, 1 Pet. 5:9) sin/temptation and to put aside all filthiness and any remaining wickedness (James is talking to Christians in 1:21). If a Christian fails to resist temptation he can be caught up in his lust, and the resulting sin ends in death (James 1:14,15) All the warnings in the NT would be moot if the possibility of falling into defiant practices wasn't possible.

Paul warned the Corinthians of the conditional nature of their salvation and the potential lost thereof if they failed to hold fast to the Gospel (15:1, 2) "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." Paul gave a similar warning to the Colossians in 1:21-23.

So yeah, a Christian can fall into defiance if he fails to resist through the power of the Holy Spirit.

David commited murder and adultry, yet he was called a man after Gods heart, why did he not get cast out of Israel. Are you saying they were not willfull sin?

Yes it was willful sin. However, if David wouldn't have repented when confronted by Nathan, he would have wound up like Saul. The NT sin list talk about practicing defiant sin. A Christian could have a David experience, be filled with Godly sorrow, and repent as David.

You still do not get it.

How can I see someone commiting a sin leading to death if he is talking about spiritual death here? He is speaking of physical death.

You're the one failing to get it. Of course 1 John 5:16 is referring to eternal life. He has been talking about eternal life throughout this chapter and verses 11 and 12 show eternal life and life in this context are synonomous, "And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. [SUP]12 [/SUP]He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (NASB)

Another example ( I don't have time to list them all) is John 5:24, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


In John life can be short hand for eternal life.

 

[kennethcadwell]

So you are able to detach yourself from your flesh? That's a neat trick......Tell me, are you spirit, soul and body or just spirit?

You don't detach yourself from the flesh, but you learn with the Holy Spirit's guidance to walk in spirit and not letting sins control you in the flesh. The Holy Spirit was sent to help us walk in holiness and not uncleanness, so if you still continually give into sins then you are disobeying the Spirit and walking in uncleanness....

1 Thessalonians 4:7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1 Peter 1:15
But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy.

 

[Sirk]

You don't detach yourself from the flesh, but you learn with the Holy Spirit's guidance to walk in spirit and not letting sins control you in the flesh. The Holy Spirit was sent to help us walk in holiness and not uncleanness, so if you still continually give into sins then you are disobeying the Spirit and walking in uncleanness....

1 Thessalonians 4:7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1 Peter 1:15
But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy.

I feel very patronized by you.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I feel very patronized by you.

Sorry you feel that way, as I am only trying to show you the truth in His word and not water it down to an easy believism gospel that is based on unbiblical facts. Like I said before the bible spends more than half of the NT on how to walk, and how not to walk. To say one can live however they want, or continue in willful sins and still be saved is unbiblical, and I unfortunately have seen my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ still hanging on to that philosophy that was heavily rebuked in the late 80's by many bible based pastor's, preachers, ministers.....

 

[BradC]

You don't detach yourself from the flesh, but you learn with the Holy Spirit's guidance to walk in spirit and not letting sins control you in the flesh. The Holy Spirit was sent to help us walk in holiness and not uncleanness, so if you still continually give into sins then you are disobeying the Spirit and walking in uncleanness....

1 Thessalonians 4:7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1 Peter 1:15
But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy.

One of the aspects of being holy as your Father in heaven is holy is to be full of mercy and to give grace to those who do not deserve it (sinners). That is an aspect of holiness that many of you have never practiced toward the guilty. Remember what Jesus said, 'I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance' (Mt 9:13). Many professing Christians today cloth themselves with their own righteousness and ability to keep themselves from certain sins, but the Lord did not come to call them.