SHOULD BELIEVERS PRAY FOR THE SALVATION OF OTHER INDIVIDUALS?

[Mercy4u]

unbelievable. i can read any story and it has no signifance to me. if it doesnt happen to me its not my experience. it was Paul's.

Have a great day Snoozy.

 

[CS1]

I'm wondering what you guys think of this.

Some unnamed verbose chatter claimed that it is inappropriate for a believer to pray for God to save specific unbelievers, because that implies the person being prayed for would have a greater chance of coming to faith than a person that is not prayed for. Therefore, that would make God a respecter of persons, which violates his absolute view of salvation being a result of the free will decision of the person.

He called the individuals in the room a bunch of mindless Reformed people for objecting to his view.

I am a Reformed person, and my view is that God ordains both the MEANS and the END. So, while the END is already assured in God's mind, the MEANS are important and are a product of God's sovereignty too. God allows humans to be instruments of the extension of his sovereign grace. So, my view is coherent, whether others agree with it or not.

Here's the poll..do our prayers affect the salvation of others? If you agree or disagree, on what Scriptural basis do you present to prove the view? Are you Reformed or non-Reformed? If so, how does that perspective affect your answer? How does your view on free will affect your response?

James 5 speaks about this. Jesus said to pray one for another . Jesus also said HE prayed for the deciples . we are told to pray without ceasing.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Gods will is that none should perish. Yet some do. So God does not coerce people to believe and be saved. And our prayers are not going to coerce God into saving someone that refuses to believe.

No matter how much we pray for someones salvation, If they refuse to believe. They will not be saved.

What Christian does not want the whole world to be saved? And I would contend that many of us have prayed, diligently, for this. Is it going to happen?

I gotta say that I am trying hard not to say this is just plain dumb..forgive me, I guess I am saying it anyway

you are still making it sound like you think if you pray God will force someone to believe. you are concluding foreknowledge as your base for your response

of course we should pray! you do not know how God will move on the behalf of another.

do you have any idea, the slightest idea, of how many have come to salvation because someone or a bunch of someones were praying for them?

again, can we see scripture that indicates you are correct in your belief that God would force someone if you prayed for them?

I am truly puzzled at how you seem think this way

 

[Prov910]

There should be a third option to the poll:

• God knows what we are going to pray for before we pray, and it's already taken into account.

 

[Mercy4u]

can you provide scripture that backs up your opinion or are you just expressing your opinion? I would think you need to supply scripture if you are saying your opinion came from that source. in fact, I would expect it'

I find the use of the word 'forced' in your response to be curious

why would you think our prayers 'force' anything? do you think you 'force' God to answer?

further, are you praying to God or praying AT people?

I do not find your answer logical

ummm...what are you calling an informed choice? I was saved when I was 5. How informed was I?

seems I am far more informed now. should I get re-saved?

you would need to provide scripture to indicate your reasons for saying what you do

otherwise, we should not take counsel from you as your opinion is not, IMO, biblically sound

God is not willing that any should perish. So he is going to give each and every individual the perfect opportunity to believe. If God is not willing that any should perish, then no need to worry about their salvation.

What we can pray for is to be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit and possibly be that "perfect opportunity" for that unbeliever in our life.

2 Pet 3:9
New American Standard Bible
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

 

[notuptome]

Gods will is that none should perish. Yet some do. So God does not coerce people to believe and be saved. And our prayers are not going to coerce God into saving someone that refuses to believe.

No matter how much we pray for someones salvation, If they refuse to believe. They will not be saved.

What Christian does not want the whole world to be saved? And I would contend that many of us have prayed, diligently, for this. Is it going to happen?

God does not hold us responsible for the decisions of others. They, Israel, rejected Christ it is no surprise that they may reject my pleas for them to be saved.

My stewardship requires me to be faithful and witness of the saving grace of God. That includes prayer supplication for souls to be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

God is not willing that any should perish. So he is going to give each and every individual the perfect opportunity to believe. If God is not willing that any should perish, then no need to worry about their salvation.

What we can pray for is to be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit and possibly be that "perfect opportunity" for that unbeliever in our life.

2 Pet 3:9
New American Standard Bible
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

I have NEVER found ANY scripture that tells us not to pray; on the other hand, there are many that DO tell us to pray

have you found scripture that tells us NOT to pray? if so, may we see it please?

 

[Mercy4u]

I have NEVER found ANY scripture that tells us not to pray; on the other hand, there are many that DO tell us to pray

have you found scripture that tells us NOT to pray? if so, may we see it please?

We should pray without ceasing.

I have just come to understand the we cannot pray for God to save another individual. I pray that people come to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I can pray until I am blue in the face for God to save an unbeliever. but,He has the doctrinal principle that "he who believes" shall be saved. Not "he who has been prayed for shall be saved."

 

[Depleted]

I'm wondering what you guys think of this.

Some unnamed verbose chatter claimed that it is inappropriate for a believer to pray for God to save specific unbelievers, because that implies the person being prayed for would have a greater chance of coming to faith than a person that is not prayed for. Therefore, that would make God a respecter of persons, which violates his absolute view of salvation being a result of the free will decision of the person.

He called the individuals in the room a bunch of mindless Reformed people for objecting to his view.

I am a Reformed person, and my view is that God ordains both the MEANS and the END. So, while the END is already assured in God's mind, the MEANS are important and are a product of God's sovereignty too. God allows humans to be instruments of the extension of his sovereign grace. So, my view is coherent, whether others agree with it or not.

Here's the poll..do our prayers affect the salvation of others? If you agree or disagree, on what Scriptural basis do you present to prove the view? Are you Reformed or non-Reformed? If so, how does that perspective affect your answer? How does your view on free will affect your response?

I'm reformed too, but can't answer your poll. God is, God is sovereign. Thus, nothing is left to chance.

I'm not saying don't pray. Of course pray. But prayer aligns our will with his will through him, so once our will is his will prayer is effective, efficient, and always gets a Yes! Because it's his will, not chance.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

We should pray without ceasing.

I have just come to understand the we cannot pray for God to save another individual. I pray that people come to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I can pray until I am blue in the face for God to save an unbeliever. but,He has the doctrinal principle that "he who believes" shall be saved. Not "he who has been prayed for shall be saved."

I will ask again

where is the scripture you base your conclusion upon, that we do not pray for the salvation of others?

your prayer does NOT create any situation wherein God is FORCED to save someone

where do you get this from?

it is not in the Bible

you say 'you have come to understand', but where do you get this understanding from?

if we do not base or receive our understanding from scripture, then we have simply agreed with something that has instructed us incorrectly

it seems I can 'ask until I am blue in the face' (no worries I'm fine) for scripture from you regarding NOT praying for the salvation of people, but you will not supply it

well, perhaps you will agree that it does not exist. that is what I am stating

 

[Mercy4u]

where is the scripture you base your conclusion upon, that we do not pray for the salvation of others?

That we can pray for the salvation of an individual. Have God override their unbelief. And they can be saved by grace through prayer even though they have no faith?

I cannot give you that verse.

But like Paul, who understood that God will not coerce anyone and their freewill choice. He prayed for the salvation of Israel by means of presenting the Gospel and giving Israel the choice/ opportunity to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[notuptome]

What greater demonstration of love than to pray for a persons soul. You cannot hate a person of you pray for them. God may use the hardness of their heart to melt your icy heart. Trust the Lord to minister in the heart of the lost and to do a work in the heart of the saint as well.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Mercy4u]

What greater demonstration of love than to pray for a persons soul. You cannot hate a person of you pray for them. God may use the hardness of their heart to melt your icy heart. Trust the Lord to minister in the heart of the lost and to do a work in the heart of the saint as well.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger. You have been very knowledgeable and reasonable from what I have seen and read.

Keep in mind the thread that we are on.

So, we can pray to God to save an individual. And He will override their unbelief and save them because we prayed for them?

Paul should have said, " believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, unless you have been prayed into salvation?"

In the end he really does elect and predestine people to be saved?

He bases His decision on His sovereignty and who was prayed for to be saved?

I don't think so. He bases His salvation on who FREELY BELIEVES. So, our prayers to help the lost come to a saving faith in Christ is heard. Praying to God to save someone hits only the ceiling. They need to freely believe in order for God to save them.

Help their unbelief.

 

[Beez]

Originally Posted by Beez

​

​

I had asked non-reformed persons:
What do you see as wrong with the idea that G-D is sovereign?
​

God is Sovereign. No doubt. But His Sovereignty coexists with mankind and their personal volition. And salvation reveals His righteousness/justice.

Salvation and His mercy shows us a side of God that we would never see apart from being fallen and in need of a Savior.

His righteousness and perfect Justice.

He condemned ALL men and put them in unbelief. Perfect Justice/righteousness is going to give all men a way out. Simply believe and you shall be saved.

Rom 11:32
New American Standard Bible
For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

John 6:40
New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Rom 1:17
New International Version
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

Psalm 98:9
New American Standard Bible
Before the LORD, for He is coming to judge the earth; He will judge the world with righteousness And the peoples with equity.

Thank you so much,

Mercy4u​

, for answering!

 

[Beez]

I asked:
"Still being new to accepting Reformed theology (and much of its terminology is still new to me), I am interested in answers only from non-Reformed persons [not from Reformed persons who want to write what they believe, please]!!


What do you see as wrong with the idea that G-D is sovereign?"
​

no offense, but where do you get the idea that non-Calvinists believe God is NOT sovereign?

I am neither Calvinist or Arminian (and actually kind of amused/amazed that it seems we are supposed to pick one, wear a badge and defend our position)

First, note, please that I merely wrote,

"I am interested in answers only from non-Reformed persons." Sorry to not be as amusing as those who divide people into merely "Calvinist or Arminian."

​

You asked back, "where do you get the idea that non-Calvinists believe God is NOT sovereign?" CC is not the whole of either my life-experience or my Internet experience. I have read answers from non-reformed persons saying G-D is not sovereign. Further, over a few decades, I have heard people say that He is not sovereign: while they did not use the word, sovereign, they used word-patterns meaning that He is not sovereign.​

 

[Mercy4u]

Originally Posted by Beez

I had asked non-reformed persons:
What do you see as wrong with the idea that G-D is sovereign?
​

Thank you so much,

Mercy4u​

, for answering!

No Problem Sister.

Just remember, that God is not willing that any should perish. That should be our will also.

But God has doctrinal principles set up on how he saves people. And we should follow those principles to a TEE.

His will is for people to BELIEVE in His Gospel and they shall be saved. John 6:40

We are called into service to advance that truth(His gospel) to ALL people. Because ALL people can be saved if they believe.Acts 16:31

 

[beastslayer1970]

how is it some think prayer does not have an effect on people?

I am almost ...well...shocked is a big word but....that some think we should not pray for the salvation of others or that even if we do so, it won't matter anyway

Yeah I guess Jesus praying in all of John 17 is an after thought.

 

[Mercy4u]

Yeah I guess Jesus praying in all of John 17 is an after thought.

What the deal is is figuring out what we can and cannot pray for and understanding His will.

He isn't going to give us a million dollars if we pray for it.

And my point is he is not going to save someone just because we pray for it.

His will is for unbelievers to believe and be saved.John 6:40 We cannot coerce God into saving someone who refuses to believe. The same as God cannot elect and predestine some for salvation.

People need to believe, from their own volition, and God will save them.

We work and pray from this truth. Influence,provide evidence and give the Gospel to the lost. We cannot just pray for the salvation of someone who does not believe.........we will never be an influence and Glorify God if we Just simply pray for salvation for someone.

 

[preacher4truth]

With reformed theology, IMO, they are so stuck on the Sovereignty of God

Yes, we're stuck on God actually being God. What a shame, eh?

 

[preacher4truth]

When I pray, I ask the Father to draw those He chose, that He will draw them through the gospel of His dear Son. I pray and leave the saving to Him.

Why would an anti-cal even bother praying to God to save ANYONE? It is up to the person! "God has given up his Sovereignty to people!" LOL!!!!!!!! So why are you praying then?????????????????????

"Dear God please save so and so. I mean, please make them decide. Wait. No. You don't do that. Please save them. Wait. Please let them save themselves without any of your involvement so as to not infringe upon their free will. I mean, well, I'm worried, it's all in their hands to do it, and I know you can't do anything about it, so I am worried just like you are God. There is nothing we can do. Why am I even praying?"

What hypocrisy, ignorance and absurdity. God can't save them, they have to choose on their own to be saved. What are they praying for actually, God to coerce them to choose him??????? LOL!!!!!!!!!!