So post your points of how the gifts have ended

[Sanashankar]

Don't exclude 1 Corinthians 13:9 because your taking that verse out of context..

I don't think that way brother, because if we read some verses above and below that we understand Paul is not talking abt a person, but abt the age to come, which is already come. He is making it simple for followers to understand.
Paul is trying to say that showing miracles is a childish thing. When u mature in the knowledge and faith, u no longer require it.

1C 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child,( thru miracles like tongues, prophecies, healing) I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.(through faith)

Dont u see that paul is not speaking abt miracles in his later epistles.

 

[annointedshepherd]

sorry but pastors err often in their proclamations, ones like Jeremiah and Ezekiel or Daniel didn't.
Also missionary's letter's to their churches are not on par with Scripture as the Apostles were...again no evidence that those offices continue.

Ephesians 4:11-13

 

[BradC]

well we know the gift of healing ended before paul died; just ask him

If you were trying to be cute or funny, you may have brought a smile to the face of some. The purpose of healing was not intended to give eternal life but relief to the afflicted who have an appointment with death and to bring glory to God. You have been a Christian long enough to know that, right?

 

[watcher2013]

To those who believed that the gifts have ceased, will think that the miracles of two witnesses are lies.

There are diversities of gifts (1 cor 12) these include faith, knowledge, wisdom.
We have faith.
We still have knowledge.
And certainly we are not fools.

[1Co 12:11-12] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. v 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

To deny the gifts of Spirit is to deny the Spirit.

 

[zone]

This is your great chance.
Show through scripture how the Holy Spirit gifts as listed in at least three different books of record in the Holy Writ have ceased.
Please, be verbose and rotund in your logic. - - - - Please!

prove they haven't ceased.

 

[zone]

All of the gifts are for edification.
Not one, but all.
Now, let it not be said that Jesus would leave his body high and dry.
He said different. (John 16)
Is this the canon?
Please read,.........(does it sound like the canon?) - (or the Comforter)

Now, please quote about when 'that which is perfect has come'. - After Jesus sent His Holy Spirit no less.
- So you will say the canon is more perfect than the Spirit?
Please.....be inexact and meandering in your logic. (Because you will have to be)

ask a greek scholar - 'that which is perfect has come' is not referring to Jesus.

 

[zone]

Well thank you brother Josh, I'm fishing for a few certain big mouthed fish.
- The C.C. Redstripe.

really, Rick. is that necessary?

just prove you are a prophet.
post your infallible prophecies.
it should be easy.

was the gift of tongues - known human languages?
which ones do you speak?

 

[zone]

Actually when Paul said:

Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. -1 Corinthians 13:8-10 NASB

Paul said when the perfect comes, referring to Jesus, then there would be no need of gifts because he would be among us and they will cease. Gifts will still be here till the perfect comes, and the partial is taken away.

referring to Jesus

why did you add that in?
it's not in there.
if paul meant Jesus (coming), he would have said when Jesus comes, just like he did every other time he referenced the LORD and/or His Coming.

 

[zone]

When does the perfect come. Answer, when Jesus returns. End of discussion..

no, not end of discussion.

2 Timothy 3
All Scripture is God-Breathed
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

timothy was instructed to rely on the God-Breathed holy scripture he had learned from since a child (OT); and on what he had learned from Paul (an inspired Apostle and prophet) - who didn't even have all the revelation yet the God was giving.....

now if Paul said the OT and any letters or writings the Holy Spirit has inspired the apostles to write, and paul said THEY (the Scriptures) were God-Breathed and had EVERYTHING:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

and enough to make "the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

what about when the last word from the lips of Jesus Christ were recorded by John (Rev 22)?

not perfect enough for you?

 

[zone]

I don't think it is a stretch to say the church also went thru the dark ages and that may of played a role in the cessation of the gifts as well, due to a diminished relationship with God and the common man. Right?

huh?
...........

so they DID cease?
or is this the suppression of the gifts theory?

seriously?

could anyone have stopped Jesus from Coming and accomplishing His Mission?
will the Holy Spirit fail in His Commission?
could anyone stop the Lord from parting the Red Sea?

this is all so man-centered.

 

[Bryancampbell]

referring to Jesus

why did you add that in?
it's not in there.
if paul meant Jesus (coming), he would have said when Jesus comes, just like he did every other time he referenced the LORD and/or His Coming.

Friend tell us then in the interpretation you received, what the perfect will come and the partial be taken away?

 

[onlinebuddy]

This is your great chance.
Show through scripture how the Holy Spirit gifts as listed in at least three different books of record in the Holy Writ have ceased.
Please, be verbose and rotund in your logic. - - - - Please!

Rick,
Have you experienced (or do you possess) any of the Gifts of the Spirit?

 

[jonathanbchristian]

That which is perfect can be many things because "every"(more than one) good and PERFECT gift comes from the Father.

 

[presidente]

I can find only these verse from the scripture.

1C 13:8 . Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Prophesy- fails ( exact greek word "katargeo" which means become idle or useless)
tongues- cease ("pauo" which means to stop,restrain, quit, desist, come to an end.)
knowledge- vanish away ("katargeo" meaning to be (render) entirely idle (useless),)

Chapter 1 says ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. It gives us some clues to understanding this chapter.

These special miracle gifts did not follow all generations of the church. Even later in the ministry of the apostles, God began to withdraw these gifts. No one was raised from the dead in their later ministry.

That's not true. There is plenty of evidence of spiritual gifts, especially during the next couple of centuries, and even throughout history. The men referred to as 'church fathers' refer to such things in their history. Many stories of the 'apostle of' this country or that country were said to have started churches with the help of miracles. One of the more famous examples, Saint Patrick, was pretty far removed, time-wise, from the first century, for example.

Your comment about raising from the dead is just an argument from silence. Irenaeus lived in the second century, and he wrote of brethren engaging in prophecy, foreknowledge, visions, healing, and raising the dead.

Paul wrote of his own doing signs and wonders from Jerusalem round about unto Illyricum. I can't think of any examples of him doing signs in either place in Acts, so he must have done miracles that aren't even recorded. Also early in his ministry he had an infirmity (probably in his eyes) that brought him to the Galatians. And late in his ministry in Acts all the sick were brought to him on Malta and all were healed.

Some of Paul best friends and servants in spreading the gospel were sick and not healed. Paul told his dear friend Timothy, to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine OFT [MANY] INFIRMITIES. God did NOT heal them. Do we think that Paul did not even ask?

And some people who pray for the sick and see a lot of healings face the same struggles today. If healings and miracles were just 'automatic' early on, why did the apostles, in Acts 4, pray for God to stretch out His hand to show signs and wonders? Why did Peter kneel down before healing Dorcas from the dead. If supernatural manifestations declined over time when Paul went to Ephesus, God did unusual miracles through the hands of Paul. Why weren't the unusual miracles all early on, and then the lesser ones came later? Why does the Bible end with a spectacular vision, including a vision of men shutting up the heavens, if the supernatural just gradually trickled away? Wouldn't we expect a more mundane book at the end if that were the case?

2 Timothy 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick (don't know if it is spiritual/physical, but God did not heal him)

We don't know that God did not heal him. Do you have evidence that he died from this illness?

 

[onlinebuddy]

All the Spiritual Gifts are still operative in the church Just as apostles and Prophets are still in the Body Today Praise God

AnointedS,
Do you possess any of the Gifts of the Spirit?
Do you personally know any Apostle or Prophet?

 

[presidente]

in the late third century john chrysostom indicated in his 'homily on 1 corinthians 12' that tongues no longer occurred and admitted that the church's understanding of the nature of tongues had been obscured by the passage of time...chrysostom is also the first to use the term 'cessation'

I've read that in John Chrysostom's sermon which cessationists like to quote about this, he blames the situation on the state of the church not being as glorious as it was in times gone by.

 

[Bryancampbell]

That which is perfect can be many things because "every"(more than one) good and PERFECT gift comes from the Father.

True, but would it wrong to see it as Jesus coming back, who is the perfect gift from God, that there will be no need of gifts because He is here. It could even mean heaven, I believe in the future whatever it is, gifts will then cease, supposedly the end of the age...

 

[jonathanbchristian]

True, but would it wrong to see it as Jesus coming back, who is the perfect gift from God, that there will be no need of gifts because He is here. It could even mean heaven, I believe in the future whatever it is, gifts will then cease, supposedly the end of the age...

I agree it is when Jesus comes
. I am against the belief it has already happened.

 

[presidente]

ask a greek scholar - 'that which is perfect has come' is not referring to Jesus.

Straw man argument.

 

[Bryancampbell]

no, not end of discussion.

2 Timothy 3
All Scripture is God-Breathed
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

timothy was instructed to rely on the God-Breathed holy scripture he had learned from since a child (OT); and on what he had learned from Paul (an inspired Apostle and prophet) - who didn't even have all the revelation yet the God was giving.....

now if Paul said the OT and any letters or writings the Holy Spirit has inspired the apostles to write, and paul said THEY (the Scriptures) were God-Breathed and had EVERYTHING:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

and enough to make "the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

what about when the last word from the lips of Jesus Christ were recorded by John (Rev 22)?

not perfect enough for you?

You make it sound like Paul knew the church will have a bible so he said "the perfect Wii come" that kind of made me giggle inside