So post your points of how the gifts have ended

[Kerry]

The gifts haven't ceased.

Space man I think you have a gift. Use it for the Lord and not your own Glory. I say in confidence. Put aside your wants and needs. No , I see that secretly. You want these for your own glory. God gives gifts and does not take them back, but He holds us accountable for what He has given us. Use your gift my friend, but use it to the glory of God. I'm just saying.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Assuming all you info is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) what conclusions can be made?

1) Perhaps there was a fading of the gifts until somehow the apparently ceased. (your position?)

2) Perhaps the rise of catholicism had a way of shunting the gifts of the Spirit as ritual replaced a vibrant relationship with God.

3) Perhaps the fires of the Holy Spirit dimmed as the gospel was watered down and sin increased.

4) Maybe we now see a new resurgence of the gifts as this age draws to a close and the Holy Spirit is being poured out by God.

So your empirical data does not prove a cessation and my prove other factors we do not know about. Scripturally, There is nothing to suggest a cessation of the gifts after a few hundred years or so.

the history can only tell me what happened and how people reacted...it cannot tell me why it happened or whether the changes were permanent or reversible...and i don't really feel like i have a basis for speculating on that...at least not at this time...

 

[danschance]

the history can only tell me what happened and how people reacted...it cannot tell me why it happened or whether the changes were permanent or reversible...and i don't really feel like i have a basis for speculating on that...at least not at this time...

I understand your position. However there were some very significant events around that time, the rise of the Catholic church and the beginning of the dark ages. The beginning of a clergy class that had taken bibles out of the hand of others and only they could interpret it. I think you can admit that during this time was a sort of dark ages for theology. It wasn't until the 15th century bibles began to circulate among the public, to some extent.

I don't think it is a stretch to say the church also went thru the dark ages and that may of played a role in the cessation of the gifts as well, due to a diminished relationship with God and the common man. Right?

 

[crossnote]

I don't see in Scripture the gifts ceasing.
But I do think the Office of Apostle and Prophet have ceased otherwise we would still have Scripture being written.
So something has ceased.

 

[Kerry]

Nothing has ceased. Paul said request the greater gifts. Apostles have become what we call missionaries. Prophets stand behind pulpits every Sunday. Tongues and interpretation still continue, just not in your church, which according to Paul equal prophecy. Healings are happening all the the time, just not in your church. Because your church does not believe the word of God. It is that simple.

 

[annointedshepherd]

I don't see in Scripture the gifts ceasing.
But I do think the Office of Apostle and Prophet have ceased otherwise we would still have Scripture being written.
So something has ceased.

Read Ephesians 4:11-13

 

[annointedshepherd]

Nothing has ceased. Paul said request the greater gifts. Apostles have become what we call missionaries. Prophets stand behind pulpits every Sunday. Tongues and interpretation still continue, just not in your church, which according to Paul equal prophecy. Healings are happening all the the time, just not in your church. Because your church does not believe the word of God. It is that simple.

No Apostles can move in all five offices the Prophetic the Evangelistic The pastor The Teacher and of Course the Apostolic Anointing
Prophets are not preachers Prophets are who God reveals what He is going to do for scripture says God surley does nothing except He reveal it to the prophets first
tongues ask God for a revelation on cause every believer can speak in tongues

 

[Kerry]

No Apostles can move in all five offices the Prophetic the Evangelistic The pastor The Teacher and of Course the Apostolic Anointing
Prophets are not preachers Prophets are who God reveals what He is going to do for scripture says God surley does nothing except He reveal it to the prophets first
tongues ask God for a revelation on cause every believer can speak in tongues

A prophet is a man who speaks the word of the Lord. If you stand behind a pulpit or stand in public and say thus saith the Lord. Then my friend you are a prophet.

 

[Chadtreme]

The gifts have not died out yet. As long as we are fighting this darkness they never will until Jesus returns. You say that the bible says that tongues and other stuff will fade away. It also says knowledge will vanish to. And I do not think any of us are dumb here.

 

[annointedshepherd]

A prophet is a man who speaks the word of the Lord. If you stand behind a pulpit or stand in public and say thus saith the Lord. Then my friend you are a prophet.

there are false prophets too my friend not every person that says thus saith the Lord is a prophet it goes much deeper then that study!!!

 

[GreenNnice]

God, in times past spoke to Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, etc. through divine revelation, dreams, for Joseph, and, Abraham was certainly prophesied what to do a time or two, and, Noah, better not forget him, he was needing to believe that the boat he was building was being built for a good reason. Turns out, it was

But, then, Hebrews 1:1 says, where I loosely lift things for the above, or, not so loosely, depeinding on how 'loosely' you read things , it says: God spoke to us through 'His Son.'

Now, how does One speak to us 'through His Son. 'One,' of course, equals The Almight, God, Him, but, what happened there, the portion and effect of revelation CHANGED with Jesus Christ coming to Earth.....

Good question, huh .

We are to look to Him, that is what Scripture says, I mean it, too, Scripture says, 'look to Him and believe in Him.'

So, we are ASKED by God to look to Christ for understanding of God's ways for our life.

Didn't Christ? Raise the dead.

Didn't Christ? Excorcise demons from pigs.

Didn't Christ? Heal leper of leprosy

Didn't Christ? You get the picture, don't ya Loosely, anyway

These are all way that Christ is 'looked to,' isn't it ?

Now, can we heal demons, cast'em out of people, and, can we heal people of infimities? I believe we can, the Lord leads, I've never done it myself--not to my knowledge--but 'all things are possible with God.'

And, when He wants something done, then, like CPR, just don't sit there, DO IT !!! Or, someone might become 'dead.' Better to do SOMETHING than nothing , and, don't worry, you're not going to be doing yoga or nothing, or , asking for demon spirits to come in to you (are you ! ) . So, just be HOLY as He wants you to be holy and by the power of God in you, the will of God, then, just get a-moving to doing what He needs done for His glory !! That is why He did things in the bible, right, you LOOK< and, you will see, what Jesus did to heal that sister's brother was FOR the glory of the Son. It wasn't done to bring the dead man to life, it was done for God's glory, so, when you CAST out demons, then, YOU need to do it for the glory of God. Motive, motive, motive, and, do it 'in the name of Jesus. '

 

[Abiding]

 

[Abiding]

Slow day Rick

 

[presidente]

Let me ask you something. Why do you read the bible and get your information from it when you already have the Holy Spirit with all the gifts and understanding with it?

If the perfect has not come,then how could you argue the gifts have ceased. If the perfect has come, why do you need to read the Bible to gain understanding? And why do you lack in your understanding of things in spite of having the Bible, and require more study. The post I am responding to illustrates that you are not perfect in your knowledge.

 

[presidente]

I don't see in Scripture the gifts ceasing.
But I do think the Office of Apostle and Prophet have ceased otherwise we would still have Scripture being written.

Faulty logic. Plenty of apostles and apostles existed who did not write books of the Bible. If the definition of apostles is someone who writes scripture, where is the epistle of Thaddeaus or the Gospel of Mattias? I suppose if you dug through Gnostic writings you could find things written in the 200's attributed to other apostles. Most of the apostles only jointly contributed to a letter from Acts 15, which was actually a summary of James' words that they vouched for along with the elders.

 

[Sanashankar]

This is your great chance.
Show through scripture how the Holy Spirit gifts as listed in at least three different books of record in the Holy Writ have ceased.
Please, be verbose and rotund in your logic. - - - - Please!

I can find only these verse from the scripture.

1C 13:8 . Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Prophesy- fails ( exact greek word "katargeo" which means become idle or useless)
tongues- cease ("pauo" which means to stop,restrain, quit, desist, come to an end.)
knowledge- vanish away ("katargeo" meaning to be (render) entirely idle (useless),)

These special miracle gifts did not follow all generations of the church. Even later in the ministry of the apostles, God began to withdraw these gifts. No one was raised from the dead in their later ministry. Paul said that "tongues would cease" in I Cor. 13. Only "faith, hope [expectation] and charity [love]" were to "NOW remain...."

Some of Paul best friends and servants in spreading the gospel were sick and not healed. Paul told his dear friend Timothy, to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine OFT [MANY] INFIRMITIES. God did NOT heal them. Do we think that Paul did not even ask?

Philippians 2:25-30 Epaphroditus was seriously sick, to the point where he was near death.

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

2 Timothy 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick (don't know if it is spiritual/physical, but God did not heal him)

The mistake we do is to believe what Jesus told in Matthew 10 to the apostles is meant for us also. Maybe miracles were required in the beginning, but now we are living in the stage of apostasy. everything is gone. We can just live with the faith God has given us.

1C 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

 

[Bryancampbell]

I can find only these verse from the scripture.

1C 13:8 . Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Prophesy- fails ( exact greek word "katargeo" which means become idle or useless)
tongues- cease ("pauo" which means to stop,restrain, quit, desist, come to an end.)
knowledge- vanish away ("katargeo" meaning to be (render) entirely idle (useless),)

These special miracle gifts did not follow all generations of the church. Even later in the ministry of the apostles, God began to withdraw these gifts. No one was raised from the dead in their later ministry. Paul said that "tongues would cease" in I Cor. 13. Only "faith, hope [expectation] and charity [love]" were to "NOW remain...."

Some of Paul best friends and servants in spreading the gospel were sick and not healed. Paul told his dear friend Timothy, to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine OFT [MANY] INFIRMITIES. God did NOT heal them. Do we think that Paul did not even ask?

Philippians 2:25-30 Epaphroditus was seriously sick, to the point where he was near death.

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

2 Timothy 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick (don't know if it is spiritual/physical, but God did not heal him)

The mistake we do is to believe what Jesus told in Matthew 10 to the apostles is meant for us also. Maybe miracles were required in the beginning, but now we are living in the stage of apostasy. everything is gone. We can just live with the faith God has given us.

1C 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Don't exclude 1 Corinthians 13:9 because your taking that verse out of context..

 

[Sanashankar]

I can find only these verse from the scripture.

1C 13:8 . Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Prophesy- fails ( exact greek word "katargeo" which means become idle or useless)
tongues- cease ("pauo" which means to stop,restrain, quit, desist, come to an end.)
knowledge- vanish away ("katargeo" meaning to be (render) entirely idle (useless),)

These special miracle gifts did not follow all generations of the church. Even later in the ministry of the apostles, God began to withdraw these gifts. No one was raised from the dead in their later ministry. Paul said that "tongues would cease" in I Cor. 13. Only "faith, hope [expectation] and charity [love]" were to "NOW remain...."

Some of Paul best friends and servants in spreading the gospel were sick and not healed. Paul told his dear friend Timothy, to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine OFT [MANY] INFIRMITIES. God did NOT heal them. Do we think that Paul did not even ask?

Philippians 2:25-30 Epaphroditus was seriously sick, to the point where he was near death.

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

2 Timothy 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick (don't know if it is spiritual/physical, but God did not heal him)

The mistake we do is to believe what Jesus told in Matthew 10 to the apostles is meant for us also. Maybe miracles were required in the beginning, but now we are living in the stage of apostasy. everything is gone. We can just live with the faith God has given us.

1C 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Saying that, i did not say God has stopped showing miracles. We see it everyday in our life. Dont we?

 

[crossnote]

A prophet is a man who speaks the word of the Lord. If you stand behind a pulpit or stand in public and say thus saith the Lord. Then my friend you are a prophet.

sorry but pastors err often in their proclamations, ones like Jeremiah and Ezekiel or Daniel didn't.
Also missionary's letter's to their churches are not on par with Scripture as the Apostles were...again no evidence that those offices continue.

 

[pickles]

Just a few things that Ive considered in this debate.

Jesus, just before He returned to The Father said, I must leave so the Holy Spirit , the comforter will come.
Ive always found this interesting, as it points to the perfect leaving, so the Holy Spirit would come.
Then Paul says when the perfesct comes, the Gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease.

Also, if the gifts of the Holy Spirit were to be temporary, then why did Paul give such detailed instructions on the use, also speaking to those that deny the Holy Spirit and gifts? That we are to ignore, even reject such?

In reading about tounges and prophacy ceasing when the perfect comes?
I have always understood that this refurs not just to Jesus's retrun, but to the fact that when one matures in Jesus, such is not needed, for one will know the perfect.

The Holy Spirit is refured to as the comforter, this speaks to when in need of comfort, but when one has in the faith, hope and love in Jesus, we are called to, have matured, ones comfort is perfected in Jesus.

Ive always looked to the gifts of the Holy Spirit as compared to when one is learning.
Like the beginner cook needs all the tools to learn to cook, recipes, mesuring cups, spoons.
But when that person has learned the skills needed to cook, perfected in this trade, they no longer need these tools, except when teaching or showing another how to obtain the goal.
Simply because they have been made compleat, the skill is one with them.

Anyway, just what was revield when I read these scriptures in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.
I believe scripture is true and same always, in its basic word, and in the depth of understanding given.
I do not see the gifts of the Holy Spirit ending, but that which brings us, and perfects us unto Jesus.

God bless
pickles