The Law is not good enough!

[Bride]

If we don't need an external list of rules or ideas to follow because it is already written on our heart, I was saying that by that same standard we don't need the NT.

Which obviously, I don't believe.

You still don't make sense.

 

[KohenMatt]

I am with Elin, UNDER the law of Life and Liberty. Under GRACE. Free from the obliterated law of Moses that you appear to promote other people here to be "under".
Ah ah now, I've been reading this stuff for nearly two hours now, I see what is going on. If that isn't the impression you intend, just know that is the impression you give, and maybe to think twice if that is what you mean before saying it.
Everytime Elin or someone shares the Word of God, you have to come up with a differing statement, just to make noise. What is your motivation here sir? Do you REALLY think that being under the old Mosaic covenant of sin and death has ANY benefit or jurisdiction upon you today? You sure seem to be arguing that. Are you? If so, and you believe that, then you are correct and will reap that reward. But what salvation you have given up to claim that! You might want to be very careful what you claim, because you will get it.

Hopefully you will read what being under that old obliterated law covenant will get you;

(Rom 3:19)
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:

If you don't intend to be showing people you are under that old law, you might want to really consider what you are typing before pushing that "reply" button. Just a word to the wise.

I might be way off track here, but this sounds dangerously like the old jewish dung that I was delivered out of, a very tough road in fact. People pushing that death law on me, to "keep it" or "be under it" or "it's still in affect" and so on. No it isn't. The law is obliterated. Do we not all agree on that here? I mean, I am not under that law. I received Christ as the Messiah promised to Israel. I've received His Holy Spirit. I am "under" the New Covenant in Christ's Blood. I was delivere OUT FROM UNDER the old Heavens rule of the "law" thank you Jesus! This is clean and straight forward presentation, and Elin is giving a beautiful testimony... yet some men here would contend to still somehow they want some aspect of that law still applicable to their lives even after receiving Christ?
Is this what I am reading here?

If you or anyone is referring to being under the law for salvation, I most certainly am not trusting in it for salvation. The law cannot offer salvation. I am ONLY saved by the life, death, resurrection and sacrifice of Jesus. So in that sense no, I am not under the law.

Beyond that, do I believe the Law is still applicable as a means of living? Yes. My obedience or disobedience to it has no bearing on my standing before God, but it helps teach me how to live in response to His grace through the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

 

[just-me]

This is good for starters in the instructions of how to love God's way. The culture is different but the attitude of true love is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

"Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD. Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD."

Oh my, I almost forgot the scripture reference Leviticus 19:11-18

 

[KohenMatt]

Let me reiterate -

"Let me speak plainly - NO ONE is saying that we shouldn't obey, i.e. walk by the Spirit. But that salvation is a gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We do not WORK for our salvation nor is there anything we can do to be good in and of ourselves. It takes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that comes from being born again and that can not and is not achieved through WORKS."

Amen, I agree completely!

 

[just-me]

Here's some other instructions about how to love God His way.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

Deuteronomy 13:1-3
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Luke 10:26-28
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed , not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Bride]

If you or anyone is referring to being under the law for salvation, I most certainly am not trusting in it for salvation. The law cannot offer salvation. I am ONLY saved by the life, death, resurrection and sacrifice of Jesus. So in that sense no, I am not under the law.

Beyond that, do I believe the Law is still applicable as a means of living? Yes. My obedience or disobedience to it has no bearing on my standing before God, but it helps teach me how to live in response to His grace through the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

You want to be under a law and keep it as a "means of living" (whatever that means), while admitting it doesn't provide any salvation?

Then also attempt to somehow benefit from the sacrifice of Christ on top of that?

THEN follow THAT up with "my obedience or disobedience has no bearing on my standing before God"?

Then follow THAT up with stating that the law somehow helps you live a responsive life to the Holy Spirit?

Seriously, is this what you are meaning to say?

If I understand you correctly, I'm going to be the one to simply suggest that whoever taught you any of this, you should slap their silly face right off the front of their head young man. Seriously. That is a bizarre Gospel. I hope you can listen to some others here, you need some good serious Bible learnin Because those goofy ideas will get you nowhere.

 

[KohenMatt]

You want to be under a law and keep it as a "means of living" (whatever that means), while admitting it doesn't provide any salvation?

Then also attempt to somehow benefit from the sacrifice of Christ on top of that?

THEN follow THAT up with "my obedience or disobedience has no bearing on my standing before God"?

Then follow THAT up with stating that the law somehow helps you live a responsive life to the Holy Spirit?

Seriously, is this what you are meaning to say?

If I understand you correctly, I'm going to be the one to simply suggest that whoever taught you any of this, you should slap their silly face right off the front of their head young man. Seriously. That is a bizarre Gospel. I hope you can listen to some others here, you need some good serious Bible learnin Because those goofy ideas will get you nowhere.

That's fine if you don't understand where I'm coming from or agree with it. I'm completely OK with that. But ease up on the language of your final few sentences.

It's not necessary or productive.

 

[just-me]

You want to be under a law and keep it as a "means of living" (whatever that means), while admitting it doesn't provide any salvation?

Then also attempt to somehow benefit from the sacrifice of Christ on top of that?

THEN follow THAT up with "my obedience or disobedience has no bearing on my standing before God"?

Then follow THAT up with stating that the law somehow helps you live a responsive life to the Holy Spirit?

Seriously, is this what you are meaning to say?

If I understand you correctly, I'm going to be the one to simply suggest that whoever taught you any of this, you should slap their silly face right off the front of their head young man. Seriously. That is a bizarre Gospel. I hope you can listen to some others here, you need some good serious Bible learnin Because those goofy ideas will get you nowhere.

What would you say to the fact that God taught him? If we love someone we respond in a positive way to what our loved one says, for man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. That's easy to comprehend. It is the carnal mind that's on the milk and unable to be subject to the law. Paul even said he worshiped by "believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14b

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This is good for starters in the instructions of how to love God's way. The culture is different but the attitude of true love is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

"Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD. Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD."

Oh my, I almost forgot the scripture reference Leviticus 19:11-18

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; . . .

Owe no man any thing, but to love one anther: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Oh my, I almost forgot the scripture reference - Romans 13:8-10

 

[BradC]

Sorry, Brad, You have really twisted the Word of God because of you narrow minded bigotry, of "faith alone", and no law what so ever. Love to all, Hoffco

No matter what problems I may have or encounter in this life or in the flesh, the law will never be good enough to set me free. It is going to take faith in the promises of God and the shed blood with lots of grace through the Spirit to deliver me from this body of sin and death. The scriptures teach us that if we are led of the Spirit we are not under the law (Gal 5:18). It does not mean that we have no law but rather we live by the law of the Spirit of life through the words of Christ that the Spirit has taught us and brings to our remembrance. What else could that possibly mean then what it objectively says as words of spirit and life?

 

[Hoffco]

to Kohen Matt, before I could accept you as a real Christian, you would have to tell me that Jesus has fulfilled all the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and that you do not have to obey them anymore. If you don't say that, then it is obvious to me, you think the Old T. laws are binding on the Christians. To peacefulbeliever, before i would let you teach in my church, you would have to teach Repentance, Faith and holiness as conditions for salvation. You may be saved, but you don't know how to be saved. Must all, on this thread, are saying we can be saved without obeying Jesus , this is evil, not salvation. Love hoffco

 

[BradC]

That is precisely what we can be content to do, for the Holy Spirit gives us to know what is loving and

what is not loving, we don't need an external list to follow, it is written on our hearts.

And the NT is covered over with exhortations and commands if we need them.

We also have a great NT chapter dedicated to the love of God as to what it is and what it is not. The chapter in (1 Cor 13) is spiritual is not a law per se, but it does fall under the royal law of love in (James 2:8). It takes the Spirit within to shed that love abroad in our heart (Rom 5:5) and it takes faith to apply that love in a given situation. To love our neighbor as ourselves is to be led by the Spirit in the love of God, putting away the selfishness of the flesh of the old man which has been crucified and putting on the new man which is spiritual being filled with the Spirit. The law has no ability to provide this to the believer who is in Christ and has the indwelling Spirit. Some need to leave the law and put on Christ by faith and live in the Spirit without the law.

 

[psychomom]

there is not one thing we can 'do' to add to the Perfect work of Christ.

repentance is the fruit of faith in Christ.
we can't pull it out of thin air, and we certainly couldn't produce it when we were DEAD in our trespasses and sins.

the holiness without which no one will see God is the Perfect Holiness of Jesus,
given to us, minus our merit, by the grace of God in faith in the Lord Jesus.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

<snip> To peacefulbeliever, before i would let you teach in my church, you would have to teach Repentance, Faith and holiness as conditions for salvation. You may be saved, but you don't know how to be saved. Must all, on this thread, are saying we can be saved without obeying Jesus , this is evil, not salvation. Love hoffco

Hoffco,

For salvation - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [Rom. 10:9,10] All inclusive in the above is repentance and faith for one would not do the above without repentance nor faith. It is through the above that: [1 Cor. 1:30,31] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord! i.e. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. [Eph. 2:8,9] So that we can glory in the Lord and not in ourselves.

I'm sorry sir . . . . but I do not think that what I believe is heresy, evil and not salvation.

 

[Hoffco]

To BradC, you say, "words of spirit and life" "what else could that possibly mean" LOL, a lot MORE: "thou shalt not kill", "lie", "steal" etc. You must SAY: the Moral law of God has never changed since the Garden of Eden. Jesus makes the tree good,then the fruit is good. We are now naturaly good,"in and of ourselves", because of the new birth, the new Heart, the new nature, from God, when He saved us, by " the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit". You people can not/won't understand the GREAT CHANGE that God's NEW HEART gives to us. WE are now HOLY beings, New CREATIONS in The Lord Jesus Christ. Love Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Because, Peacefulbelieve , you fail to quote Eph.2:10. " For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good WORKS. This is why and how we can be follow "holiness without which no one will see God." Heb. is all about holy living people who will inherit eternal. The unbelieving and disobedient go to Hell. not Heaven. Only Good people go to Heaven. Love Hoffco

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Because, Peacefulbelieve , you fail to quote Eph.2:10. " For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good WORKS. This is why and how we can be follow "holiness without which no one will see God." Heb. is all about holy living people who will inherit eternal. The unbelieving and disobedient go to Hell. not Heaven. Only Good people go to Heaven. Love Hoffco

Dearest Hoffco

Yes, I am God's masterpiece, I am HIS workmanship created: What was created - that "new man" within me when I was born again of God's Spirit . . . Now it is God working within me to will and to do of HIS good pleasure [Phil. 1:6] and I am confident of this very thing, that HE which has begun a good work in me will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ [Phil. 2:13].

AGAIN: Let me reiterate -

"Let me speak plainly - NO ONE is saying that we shouldn't obey, i.e. walk by the Spirit. But that salvation is a gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We do not WORK for our salvation nor is there anything we can do to be good in and of ourselves. It takes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that comes from being born again and that can not and is not achieved through WORKS."

 

[KohenMatt]

to Kohen Matt, before I could accept you as a real Christian, you would have to tell me that Jesus has fulfilled all the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and that you do not have to obey them anymore. If you don't say that, then it is obvious to me, you think the Old T. laws are binding on the Christians. To peacefulbeliever, before i would let you teach in my church, you would have to teach Repentance, Faith and holiness as conditions for salvation. You may be saved, but you don't know how to be saved. Must all, on this thread, are saying we can be saved without obeying Jesus , this is evil, not salvation. Love hoffco

Don't worry Brother. Not only did Jesus fulfill all of the sacrifices, He fulfilled EVERYTHING in the Law. The Feasts, the Purifications, the Sacrifices. Everything. I don't "have" to obey the laws, nor do any other Christians "have" to.

It's now a matter of "getting" to obey them freely and without fear of guilt or punishment because of what Jesus did.

 

[Hoffco]

But I don't think Jesus is happy with His children dwelling on the O.T. feasts, to practice them. God will soon have Israel's temple built and have the Jews sacrificing again, BUT, God will kill 2/3 of the nation for doing so, in Jacobs trouble ,after the rapture happens. Love Hoffco

 

[KohenMatt]

But I don't think Jesus is happy with His children dwelling on the O.T. feasts, to practice them. God will soon have Israel's temple built and have the Jews sacrificing again, BUT, God will kill 2/3 of the nation for doing so, in Jacobs trouble ,after the rapture happens. Love Hoffco

I think Jesus is happy anytime we walk in obedience to His commands and we are worshiping Him with everything in our lives.

BTW, Do I get to be a called a Christian yet?