The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE
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T
I don't worship or pray to a painting. I do not praise an idol, I praise and worship a divine being named God. So you say you're saved through your faith in Jesus which is true in part then please explain why it it says in Mark 16:16 that you must believe and be baptized to be saved. Sounds to me there are many things involved in having salvation.
↑ that's not the only verse in the book, and the word is "baptizo" which means immersed, which could be used to describe immersion in anything, not just H[SUB]2[/SUB]O. this same Christ, after all, never baptized with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, but with spirit & fire.
elsewhere this same Christ also spoke of salvation -- let's see if we can understand how His teachings are consistent, since there is no H[SUB]2[/SUB]O or even "immersion" mentioned here:
Jesus said to them,
“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
(John 6:35-40)
perhaps the "good news" is even more "good" than we understand
elsewhere this same Christ also spoke of salvation -- let's see if we can understand how His teachings are consistent, since there is no H[SUB]2[/SUB]O or even "immersion" mentioned here:
Jesus said to them,
“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
(John 6:35-40)
perhaps the "good news" is even more "good" than we understand
↑ that's not the only verse in the book, and the word is "baptizo" which means immersed, which could be used to describe immersion in anything, not just H[SUB]2[/SUB]O. this same Christ, after all, never baptized with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, but with spirit & fire.
elsewhere this same Christ also spoke of salvation -- let's see if we can understand how His teachings are consistent, since there is no H[SUB]2[/SUB]O or even "immersion" mentioned here:
Jesus said to them,
“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
(John 6:35-40)
perhaps the "good news" is even more "good" than we understand
born of water born of spirit =born again=new birth
Romans 6:3-9American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]for he that hath died is justified from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death no more hath dominion over him.
sounds like a newbirth to me....
Romans 6:3-9American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]for he that hath died is justified from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death no more hath dominion over him.
sounds like a newbirth to me....
T
Why are my posts getting deleted? Look, truth is truth. I don't believe in praying to a painting or anything that can be considered and idol so I worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Idols are not a means to worship God. Now you say I'm saved with faith, I believe this because Hebrews 11:1 says..."Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Sounds here I have a BELIEF in something. My faith is a belief in Jesus, God, and all the above. Now why do we keep saying on here you don't have to be baptized to be saved when Mark 16:16 says the opposite. IT STATES IT PLAINLY, why do we choose to ignore this or disregard it? Give me a reason that is within the context of this verse and surrounding verses.
im also not sure why you say I don't need to have works with my faith in God. If people only believed in God and did nothing to help the church grow (which would be a work) how would this lingering church exist without the need to grow. Faith without works and I bet we ignore James 2:17 in this process. Which just to save you time to prove and test this claim (1 Thes.5:21) the verse says "Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone." Do we choose to ignore this plainly stated truth too? I'm in question as to whether we are trying to discuss the greatest "contradiction" here in searching for truth here and not a contest of intellectual ignorance so we resort to name calling. No one responded to the explanation of the text I gave within context. If you don't find this is correct then tell me and I'll reapply hemeneutic reasoning to it because I want the truth in this. I have one soul and I don't want to mess it up, because I only have this life to help others around me and make sure I'm living where the Bible speaks and not making claims outside of it. I want to know what is there, not add or take away anything written in Gods Word Rev. 22:18-19. I'm not interested in word studies unless if I find need or difficulty in interpreting a passage correctly, the plainly stated verses are not one that I need to know or I'm damned forever. I'm in progress here to help others find God's truth, not have quarrels of less important issues. Thus going to the main purpose of this, Paul's statement. Understand the context and you will find the correct interpretation with the correct application of hementuetics or logic. Carefully deal with this, not with rash words or thoughts. Think deeply and long on it.
im also not sure why you say I don't need to have works with my faith in God. If people only believed in God and did nothing to help the church grow (which would be a work) how would this lingering church exist without the need to grow. Faith without works and I bet we ignore James 2:17 in this process. Which just to save you time to prove and test this claim (1 Thes.5:21) the verse says "Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone." Do we choose to ignore this plainly stated truth too? I'm in question as to whether we are trying to discuss the greatest "contradiction" here in searching for truth here and not a contest of intellectual ignorance so we resort to name calling. No one responded to the explanation of the text I gave within context. If you don't find this is correct then tell me and I'll reapply hemeneutic reasoning to it because I want the truth in this. I have one soul and I don't want to mess it up, because I only have this life to help others around me and make sure I'm living where the Bible speaks and not making claims outside of it. I want to know what is there, not add or take away anything written in Gods Word Rev. 22:18-19. I'm not interested in word studies unless if I find need or difficulty in interpreting a passage correctly, the plainly stated verses are not one that I need to know or I'm damned forever. I'm in progress here to help others find God's truth, not have quarrels of less important issues. Thus going to the main purpose of this, Paul's statement. Understand the context and you will find the correct interpretation with the correct application of hementuetics or logic. Carefully deal with this, not with rash words or thoughts. Think deeply and long on it.
you think Paul is writing to a bunch of novice who don't know about salvation? always read the intro in first chapter
the key is in vs 16...[SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
the same gospel Christ said to preach in Mk 16.....the same gospel that says ....you must believe and be baptised and you shall be saved....
anywhere you go the scripture points to the same conclusion....unless you change it
the key is in vs 16...[SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
the same gospel Christ said to preach in Mk 16.....the same gospel that says ....you must believe and be baptised and you shall be saved....
anywhere you go the scripture points to the same conclusion....unless you change it
The enemy will war hard against the actual GATEWAY to the Kingdom of God, the baptism by the water and the word. It is about submission to Jesus. Those who protest water baptism by throwing around the word "works" (ahh! works are bad! lol!) as an excuse not to be baptized by water, are simply demonstrating their open rebellion against Christ Jesus Himself. The appointed way is accomplished by us as a rite appointed by Jesus, "to fulfill all righteousness". Certainly such a person who rejects being baptized by water will never be baptized by the Holy Spirit of Jesus. It is one of the many ways we can mark those of the enemy and remove them from our midst, unless they cease their war against the Word.
(Mat 3:13)
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
(Mat 3:14)
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
(Mat 3:15)
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Whoever isn't destined to fulfill all righteousness, will be evident in their "choice of works".
(Mat 3:13)
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
(Mat 3:14)
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
(Mat 3:15)
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Whoever isn't destined to fulfill all righteousness, will be evident in their "choice of works".
Why don't you look at all the other places where the word save IS and study them from the GREEK and then all of the places like 40 to 1 that teach salvation by grace dia faith without ANY mention of Baptism...and then understand that JESUS said...
THY FAITH HATH SAVED THEE without any reference to water and or works....and ALSO study the words LIKE FIGURE from the GREEK and then come and push water where water is not mentioned....YOUR argument is moot because I can list 50 verses in context that teach FAITH by GRACE without WATER which you will reject in favor of 2 to 4 sets of verses out of context, while IGNORING the words that the BIBLE was originally translated in, while IGNORING that the KING JIM was translated and TRANSLITERATED by EPISCOPAL PRIESTS who believed into SPRINKLING/WATER over the BLOOD for salvation.
If I were you I would start there, pray and BE HONEST with ALL scriptures together on the matter as opposed to a few SINGLE VERSES out of context!
THY FAITH HATH SAVED THEE without any reference to water and or works....and ALSO study the words LIKE FIGURE from the GREEK and then come and push water where water is not mentioned....YOUR argument is moot because I can list 50 verses in context that teach FAITH by GRACE without WATER which you will reject in favor of 2 to 4 sets of verses out of context, while IGNORING the words that the BIBLE was originally translated in, while IGNORING that the KING JIM was translated and TRANSLITERATED by EPISCOPAL PRIESTS who believed into SPRINKLING/WATER over the BLOOD for salvation.
If I were you I would start there, pray and BE HONEST with ALL scriptures together on the matter as opposed to a few SINGLE VERSES out of context!
Now you are just being accusatory and lying in the bolded above as NOT ONE PERSON HAS SAID OR IMPLIED what you have IMPLIED...so...the accuser of the brethren ADDED words in the garden...so let us summate....
1. You falsely accuse
2. YOU add words that were not said nor implied
Who leads you?....God's spirit doesn't lead ANYONE to do that...so.....I recommend post 213 and the solid truth found there in!
1. You falsely accuse
2. YOU add words that were not said nor implied
Who leads you?....God's spirit doesn't lead ANYONE to do that...so.....I recommend post 213 and the solid truth found there in!
I don't know you sir, hello? I'm not talking to you either, nor do am I accusing you or anyone of anything. It sure sounds like you are accusing ME of something though... you just called me a liar? And I don't care what someone else said or implied. That isn't what causes me to speak the word of God. I am just providing God's Word concerning this subject. I can do that here, no? Or are you a self appointed policeman of what others say? I most certainly do not need your approval or opinion young man, you are way too abrasive for a lover of peace, that is evident from your numerous sharp posts. Please don't reply to me if you are going to be like that. Those who like the will of God will like His Word. Those who don't, won't like it.
(Rev 22:11)
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
(Rev 22:11)
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
My post was only to whoever might be an enemy of baptism, those who say it isn't of WATER as well as by blood and spirit, they know who they are, so why would you reply to me?
(1Jn 5:8)
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
(1Jn 5:8)
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
You didn't say the following and or make this statement in a post and let me guess...who is this implied against and IF it does not apply unto those who are saying that baptism DOES NOT SAVE then who is it directed at and why is it in this thread?
Originally Posted by Bride
The enemy will war hard against the actual GATEWAY to the Kingdom of God, the baptism by the water and the word. It is about submission to Jesus. Those who protest water baptism by throwing around the word "works" (ahh! works are bad! lol!) as an excuse not to be baptized by water, are simply demonstrating their open rebellion against Christ Jesus Himself. The appointed way is accomplished by us as a rite appointed by Jesus, "to fulfill all righteousness". Certainly such a person who rejects being baptized by water will never be baptized by the Holy Spirit of Jesus. It is one of the many ways we can mark those of the enemy and remove them from our midst, unless they cease their war against the Word.