What is Antichrist? How could America be mystery babylon? Bible or Quran?

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gocardinals25

Guest
#41
Jesus Christ was the word dwelling among men in the flesh, The Son of God full of truth and grace,that gave his life for our sins,if you do not believe that I would suggest that you do, The Holy Bible is the word of God
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#42
The quran does not support this so are you saying that it does? You are very confusing
The Koran copied itself from the Holy Bible.

All the essential Biblical doctrines are in there, you just need to study how it was written.

Just remember that the Koran never claims to be divinely inspired...thus, we should NOT expect that it is...
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#43
Jesus Christ was the word dwelling among men in the flesh, The Son of God full of truth and grace,that gave his life for our sins,if you do not believe that I would suggest that you do, The Holy Bible is the word of God
The Son is the WORD & TRUTH also in the Koran.

Nothing has changed here...
 
G

gocardinals25

Guest
#44
The Koran copied itself from the Holy Bible.

All the essential Biblical doctrines are in there, you just need to study how it was written.

Just remember that the Koran never claims to be divinely inspired...thus, we should NOT expect that it is...
That is not true whatsoever, and even if it were why would they need to copy the Holy Bible to create another one
 
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gocardinals25

Guest
#45
If you ask me the Quran is nothing more than a tool to create division among Christians, the word CHRISTIAN is used in biblical prophecy
 
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gocardinals25

Guest
#46
The disciples in the Holy Bible were CHRISTIAN to say that the quran is correct would to go against everything that the Holy Bible stands for
 
G

gocardinals25

Guest
#47
 
D

doulos

Guest
#48
Let's start at the top of your chart...

The concept of the Biblical Trinity.

One such Koranic ayah (which, ironically Muslims are trained to use all the time for their position) actually plainly states that the Trinity is not “three”, but instead, it is “one”, and then proceeds to list out Father, Son, and Spirit…


يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.



Observe that this ayah is directed at ‘The Book’s family’ (ahla alkitabi) – which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.

For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.


In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one “allah” as “Three”, as even his messengers do not say “Three” - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun)….and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.

This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word “Three”…and what it is, by the example of “one”.


No denial of the Trinity in the original Arabic...only in the mind of islam...and then, later, into everyone who muslims come into contact with...

Agreed?
I must ask why are you promoting the fallacy that the quran is based on the bible? The quran is based on the 23 year record of a 6th century, illiterate, lying, thieving, murdering child doing (per islams own writings) false prophet mohammad. The lies this false prophet taught have been leading the poor mislead muslims to perdition for 1400 years with his false teaching that God has no Son which makes all who follow him antichrists.

I have no idea how or why one could honestly believe that the quran is based on the bible. How can a book (quran) that makes recognizing the fact that God “ gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” an unpardonable sin be based on the bible?


Always the opposite, the single most egregious - and only unforgivable sin - in Muhammad's religion is committed, if a Muslim were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. A sin worse than child rape or cold-blooded murder.


Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

As the above quotes from the quran demonstrate the quran is not based on the bible but instead teaches the opposite.

For those who are truly interested in understanding the truth about how islam is the opposite of Christianity please take a little time and check out Islam the opposite <click
 
G

gocardinals25

Guest
#49
You can't blame him for being deceived Satan is very good at what he does
 
D

doulos

Guest
#50
You can't blame him for being deceived Satan is very good at what he does

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Those who study to shew themselves approved will find the truth. Blaming satan won’t help anyone, but studying the Scriptures with an open heart seeking truth will lead one to truth!
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#51
I must ask why are you promoting the fallacy that the quran is based on the bible?

It states very plainly that it merely copied the Holy Bible.

You are following what islam has told you, rather than investigating the matter for yourself...
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#52
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…




وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.


To overcome the Muslim mindset, we need to first define the Arabic word that has been misinterpreted by Islam.

Here is the classic Arabic definition for "ma"...

ما = “ma”

“ma” definition:

Conjunctive pronoun. That; which; that which; whatsoever; what; as; as much; in such a manner as; as much as; as for as; any kind; when; how. Does not, as a rule, refer to reasonable things, but instances to the contrary sometimes occur. It is one of those particles, which, in conditional propositions, govern the verb in the conditional mood; it is frequently a mere expletive. It is also a negative adverb, Not; in general it denies a circumstance either present, or of past, but little remote from the present; it governs the attribute in the accusative, thus it is a negative particle when placed before the perfect as in 53.2; or before a pronoun as in 68.2; or before an demonstrative noun as in 12.31. The particle, when joined to the perfect, denies the past; when joined to the imperfect, the present.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3016
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 2, p. 300
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 523 - 524
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, pp. 135 - 136




As we can see below..."ma", when joined to "wa", is simply a filler-word in this ayah...


وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Certainly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.



As witnessed by the plethora of positives in this ayah, the conditional mood is only positive.

Couple this, to the very next ayah, as thus…



بل رفعه الله إليه وكان الله عزيزا حكيما

Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman

4.158 But “allah”, he raised Him to him, and “allah” mighty, wise.




4.157 & 4.158 tell us of its most likely Biblical source...


This One given to you by the before-determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you having taken by lawless hands, having crucified Him, you killed Him. But God raised Him up, loosing the throes of death, because it was not possible for Him to be held by it. (Act 2.23 - 24)


As we can see, 4.157 & 4.158 are simply parroting NT material...


Thus, context is clear that in 4.157 “wama” is simply governing the verb in the conditional mood – which is positive….NOT negative.


Further, rendering this Islamic one-hit-wonder ayah as a negative would force other Koranic ayahs into contradiction.



As further evidence that 4.157 confirms Jesus’ death upon the cross, all the Koranic crucifixion instances are shown here, which confirm that the Koran always describes a crucifixion event with complete certainty of death…



• 5.33…they will be crucified till death
• 7.124…I will surely crucify you till death
• 12.41…so will be crucified till death
• 20.71…and I will surely crucify you till death
• 26.49…and I will surely crucify you till death



Death through crucifixion is always mandated in the Koran.

Thus, there is no reason at all to believe that 4.157 would break this trend…
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#53
Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

And they said: "The most merciful he has taken a Son. Truly You came, a disastrous thing.” The heavens are well nigh (to) burst from Him and the earth she cleaves asunder and then later the mountains fall down into pieces violently with noise. That they called to the most merciful a Son. And that it is convenient to the most merciful that he takes a Son. 19.88 – 92


Contrary to popular Islamic thinking, these ayahs actually proclaim Jesus Christ as the “convenient” Son by first quoting what they said “qaloo”, and then shifting to the singular destruction which Jesus Christ brings during the end times as He opens the Seven seals of Revelation
 
G

gocardinals25

Guest
#54
Do you really think that God almighty would let his entire scripture be altered ? The Holy Bible is the truth,amen
 
Q

Quickfire

Guest
#55
Whichever way you look at it the Holy Bible is the word of God do not be deceived Jesus Christ is your savior
Hi , its not just the Word its much more ,like when its time act or think, like for i know babylon could be ethiopia. That is what the rasters believe, And big Marley has scripture he says to Back it up. So who knows man,
Anyways catch yers i got a race, byeeeeeeeeee
 
D

doulos

Guest
#56
And they said: "The most merciful he has taken a Son. Truly You came, a disastrous thing.” The heavens are well nigh (to) burst from Him and the earth she cleaves asunder and then later the mountains fall down into pieces violently with noise. That they called to the most merciful a Son. And that it is convenient to the most merciful that he takes a Son. 19.88 – 92


Contrary to popular Islamic thinking, these ayahs actually proclaim Jesus Christ as the “convenient” Son by first quoting what they said “qaloo”, and then shifting to the singular destruction which Jesus Christ brings during the end times as He opens the Seven seals of Revelation
Your profile says you are a Christian. Why would a Christian promote a LIE that the quran is copied from the bible? Friend I have spent much time studying this subject, the quran teaches the exact opposite of the bible, it is not a copy. You may be able to con those who have not studied the subject, but those familiar with the Scriptures that have read the quran will see right through the lie you are promoting! Are you truly a Christian, or is this a case of taqiyya being used to promote a false religion?
 
D

doulos

Guest
#57
The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…




وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.


To overcome the Muslim mindset, we need to first define the Arabic word that has been misinterpreted by Islam.

Here is the classic Arabic definition for "ma"...

ما = “ma”

“ma” definition:

Conjunctive pronoun. That; which; that which; whatsoever; what; as; as much; in such a manner as; as much as; as for as; any kind; when; how. Does not, as a rule, refer to reasonable things, but instances to the contrary sometimes occur. It is one of those particles, which, in conditional propositions, govern the verb in the conditional mood; it is frequently a mere expletive. It is also a negative adverb, Not; in general it denies a circumstance either present, or of past, but little remote from the present; it governs the attribute in the accusative, thus it is a negative particle when placed before the perfect as in 53.2; or before a pronoun as in 68.2; or before an demonstrative noun as in 12.31. The particle, when joined to the perfect, denies the past; when joined to the imperfect, the present.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3016
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 2, p. 300
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 523 - 524
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, pp. 135 - 136




As we can see below..."ma", when joined to "wa", is simply a filler-word in this ayah...


وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Certainly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.



As witnessed by the plethora of positives in this ayah, the conditional mood is only positive.

Couple this, to the very next ayah, as thus…



بل رفعه الله إليه وكان الله عزيزا حكيما

Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman

4.158 But “allah”, he raised Him to him, and “allah” mighty, wise.




4.157 & 4.158 tell us of its most likely Biblical source...


This One given to you by the before-determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you having taken by lawless hands, having crucified Him, you killed Him. But God raised Him up, loosing the throes of death, because it was not possible for Him to be held by it. (Act 2.23 - 24)


As we can see, 4.157 & 4.158 are simply parroting NT material...


Thus, context is clear that in 4.157 “wama” is simply governing the verb in the conditional mood – which is positive….NOT negative.


Further, rendering this Islamic one-hit-wonder ayah as a negative would force other Koranic ayahs into contradiction.



As further evidence that 4.157 confirms Jesus’ death upon the cross, all the Koranic crucifixion instances are shown here, which confirm that the Koran always describes a crucifixion event with complete certainty of death…



• 5.33…they will be crucified till death
• 7.124…I will surely crucify you till death
• 12.41…so will be crucified till death
• 20.71…and I will surely crucify you till death
• 26.49…and I will surely crucify you till death



Death through crucifixion is always mandated in the Koran.

Thus, there is no reason at all to believe that 4.157 would break this trend…
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Read it and weep! Jump through all the hoops you want to sanitize the quran, but that will not change what it actually says. You can continue to promote the lie that the quran is copied from the bible but those who have read both can see right through that lie!
Your profile says you are a Christian. Your posts indicate something else, possibly someone practicing taqiyyah? So the question becomes have you been decieved or are you the deciever?
 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#58
IJh. 2:18 "Little Children, it is the last hour and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." 1Jh.4:3 "And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." Who?, is the Antichrist, the real one who will come at the end of the age and pretend to be the Christ, I believe he will be the "man ofsin who will make (reaffirm) a peace treaty with the Jews and the Muslims. I think He will be a Muslim clergy, a Muslim Messiah, who will have power with the Muslims ,so they follow him and the Jews will accept his peace, because secular Israel does not care who gives them peace , they just want peace. Daniel calls him the king of the South. Revelation calls him the beast 17:8 who comes "out of the bottomless pit and will go to perdition" He will be killed, but rise from the dead, and thus be the 7th and the 8th king, 17:11 ,. He will have ten horns, Kings, who will reign with him for one hour. They will destroy the mystery ,Babylon, that wicked "great city." But Jesus will destroy him, when Jesus come back to rule. This is a mystery, for sure, I can not wait to see how it is all played out,BUT, I think, the Church of Christ will be gone by the time the Antichrist rules. I hope so! Love to all, Hoffco
You misprinted your passage. The word "antichrist is not capitalized. Therefore, it is not talking about a name or a specific person.
 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#60
The authors of the Koran have only praise for their source material, the Holy Bible.

The paraphrased and set to rhyme manner in which the Koran was written is what has most people confused.

Jesus was crucified until death in the Koran, raised on the third day, will judge mankind, IS God, IS the Son, etc, etc....same as declared in the Holy Bible.

Much of this original truth has been lost to centuries of islamic ignorance to their Arabic tongue.

I have studied Koranic Arabic for the past 15 years, and truth be told, the islamic perception on MOST everything in their Koran is completely and utterly incorrect.

The Holy Bible is required to correct and clarify islamic interpretation of the Koran.

This is just the way that it is...
I'd love to see a passage where the Quran specifically states that the real Jesus, not a fill in or look alike, died on the cross, was buried and raised on the third say.

No true Muslim believes that for, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't exist in the book of the Koran. If it does, then the entire Quran is a fake! Why? Because of this one verse!

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”—but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not—nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (Qur’an, 4:157-158, Yusuf Ali)