A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?
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No. The problem for you is that these scriptures do not say that Phoebe was ordained. I would have you read this article in full, who explains very well the biblical principles of calling and ordination.
Deborah & Barak: Example for Women or Embarrassment for Men
Deborah & Barak: Example for Women or Embarrassment for Men
But we were never told that slaves were now to be freed by there masters, and actually the NT makes many references of submission for many people. I still take that in the way that we are all offered His grace, and no one is held in favoritism. But that God does still have order, and charges some to lead others. I dont believe those who teach are closer to God, in fact Christ kinda seemed to point that out with the pharisees. But He still seems to have wanted men to teach.
If you think I have some male ego trip problem and I feel the need to lord over you you dont have any idea who I am
I am merely arguing the point that we should place Gods will over ours, and there was no word that women are allowed to be teachers, but we are taught that they should not.
If you think I have some male ego trip problem and I feel the need to lord over you you dont have any idea who I am
I am merely arguing the point that we should place Gods will over ours, and there was no word that women are allowed to be teachers, but we are taught that they should not.
K
You have to be ordained to be a deacon, and I have read plenty of commentaries and done plenty of back ground studies on the early church. And in those studies the early church documents show women in leadership, preaching, and even as fellow apostles. The study in Greek as a fellow sister in Christ showed previously showed how the two scriptures that people have used from Paul are misused in their context when it comes to leadership and preaching roles in the church. You few still want to ignore what was said by continuing with bias sources. If telling you 5 times the correct context from the Greek does not work, telling you a 6th time still will not sink in.....
K
WOMEN IN THE FIRST CENTURY OF CHRISTIANITY
After the death of Jesus, women continued to play prominent roles in the early movement. Some scholars have even suggested that themajority of Christians in the first century may have been women.
The letters of Paul - dated to the middle of the first century CE - and his casual greetings to acquaintances offer fascinating and solid information about many Jewish and Gentile women who were prominent in the movement. His letters provide vivid clues about the kind of activities in which women engaged more generally. He greets Prisca, Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister, who worked and traveled as missionaries in pairs with their husbands or brothers (Romans 16:3, 7, 15). He tells us that Prisca and her husband risked their lives to save his. He praises Junia as a prominent apostle, who had been imprisoned for her labor. Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work (Romans 16:6, 12). Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Here is clear evidence of women apostles active in the earliest work of spreading the Christian message.
Paul's letters also offer some important glimpses into the inner workings of ancient Christian churches. These groups did not own church buildings but met in homes, no doubt due in part to the fact that Christianity was not legal in the Roman world of its day and in part because of the enormous expense to such fledgling societies. Such homes were a domain in which women played key roles. It is not surprising then to see women taking leadership roles in house churches. Paul tells of women who were the leaders of such house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19). This practice is confirmed by other texts that also mention women who headed churches in their homes, such as Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship. Paul, for example, greets a deacon named Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and assumes that women are praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). As prophets, women's roles would have included not only ecstatic public speech, but preaching, teaching, leading prayer, and perhaps even performing the eucharist meal. (A later first century work, called theDidache, assumes that this duty fell regularly to Christian prophets.)
MARY MAGDALENE: A TRUER PORTRAIT
Later texts support these early portraits of women, both in exemplifying their prominence and confirming their leadership roles (Acts 17:4, 12). Certainly the most prominent among these in the ancient church was Mary Magdalene. A series of spectacular 19th and 20th century discoveries of Christian texts in Egypt dating to the second and third century have yielded a treasury of new information. It was already known from the New Testament gospels that Mary was a Jewish woman who followed Jesus of Nazareth. Apparently of independent means, she accompanied Jesus during his ministry and supported him out of her own resources (Mark 15:40-41; Matthew 27:55-56; Luke 8:1-3; John 19:25).
Although other information about her is more fantastic, she is repeatedly portrayed as a visionary and leader of the early movement.(Mark 16:1-9; Matthew 28:1-10; Luke24:1-10; John 20:1, 11-18; Gospel of Peter ). In the Gospel of John, the risen Jesus gives her special teaching and commissions her as an apostle to the apostles to bring them the good news. She obeys and is thus the first to announce the resurrection and to play the role of an apostle, although the term is not specifically used of her. Later tradition, however, will herald her as "the apostle to the apostles." The strength of this literary tradition makes it possible to suggest that historically Mary was a prophetic visionary and leader within one sector of the early Christian movement after the death of Jesus.
The newly discovered Egyptian writings elaborate this portrait of Mary as a favored disciple. Her role as "apostle to the apostles" is frequently explored, especially in considering her faith in contrast to that of the male disciples who refuse to believe her testimony. She is most often portrayed in texts that claim to record dialogues of Jesus with his disciples, both before and after the resurrection. In theDialogue of the Savior, for example, Mary is named along with Judas (Thomas) and Matthew in the course of an extended dialogue with Jesus. During the discussion, Mary addresses several questions to the Savior as a representative of the disciples as a group. She thus appears as a prominent member of the disciple group and is the only woman named. Moreover, in response to a particularly insightful question, the Lord says of her, "´You make clear the abundance of the revealer!'" (140.17-19). At another point, after Mary has spoken, the narrator states, "She uttered this as a woman who had understood completely"(139.11-13). These affirmations make it clear that Mary is to be counted among the disciples who fully comprehended the Lord's teaching (142.11-13).
In another text, the Sophia of Jesus Christ, Mary also plays a clear role among those whom Jesus teaches. She is one of the seven women and twelve men gathered to hear the Savior after the resurrection, but before his ascension. Of these only five are named and speak, including Mary. At the end of his discourse, he tells them, "I have given you authority over all things as children of light," and they go forth in joy to preach the gospel. Here again Mary is included among those special disciples to whom Jesus entrusted his most elevated teaching, and she takes a role in the preaching of the gospel.
In the Gospel of Philip, Mary Magdalene is mentioned as one of three Marys "who always walked with the Lord" and as his companion (59.6-11). The work also says that Lord loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often (63.34-36). The importance of this portrayal is that yet again the work affirms the special relationship of Mary Magdalene to Jesus based on her spiritual perfection.
In the Pistis Sophia, Mary again is preeminent among the disciples, especially in the first three of the four books. She asks more questions than all the rest of the disciples together, and the Savior acknowledges that: "Your heart is directed to the Kingdom of Heaven more than all your brothers" (26:17-20). Indeed, Mary steps in when the other disciples are despairing in order to intercede for them to the Savior (218:10-219:2). Her complete spiritual comprehension is repeatedly stressed.
After the death of Jesus, women continued to play prominent roles in the early movement. Some scholars have even suggested that themajority of Christians in the first century may have been women.
The letters of Paul - dated to the middle of the first century CE - and his casual greetings to acquaintances offer fascinating and solid information about many Jewish and Gentile women who were prominent in the movement. His letters provide vivid clues about the kind of activities in which women engaged more generally. He greets Prisca, Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister, who worked and traveled as missionaries in pairs with their husbands or brothers (Romans 16:3, 7, 15). He tells us that Prisca and her husband risked their lives to save his. He praises Junia as a prominent apostle, who had been imprisoned for her labor. Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work (Romans 16:6, 12). Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Here is clear evidence of women apostles active in the earliest work of spreading the Christian message.
Paul's letters also offer some important glimpses into the inner workings of ancient Christian churches. These groups did not own church buildings but met in homes, no doubt due in part to the fact that Christianity was not legal in the Roman world of its day and in part because of the enormous expense to such fledgling societies. Such homes were a domain in which women played key roles. It is not surprising then to see women taking leadership roles in house churches. Paul tells of women who were the leaders of such house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19). This practice is confirmed by other texts that also mention women who headed churches in their homes, such as Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship. Paul, for example, greets a deacon named Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and assumes that women are praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). As prophets, women's roles would have included not only ecstatic public speech, but preaching, teaching, leading prayer, and perhaps even performing the eucharist meal. (A later first century work, called theDidache, assumes that this duty fell regularly to Christian prophets.)
MARY MAGDALENE: A TRUER PORTRAIT
Later texts support these early portraits of women, both in exemplifying their prominence and confirming their leadership roles (Acts 17:4, 12). Certainly the most prominent among these in the ancient church was Mary Magdalene. A series of spectacular 19th and 20th century discoveries of Christian texts in Egypt dating to the second and third century have yielded a treasury of new information. It was already known from the New Testament gospels that Mary was a Jewish woman who followed Jesus of Nazareth. Apparently of independent means, she accompanied Jesus during his ministry and supported him out of her own resources (Mark 15:40-41; Matthew 27:55-56; Luke 8:1-3; John 19:25).
Although other information about her is more fantastic, she is repeatedly portrayed as a visionary and leader of the early movement.(Mark 16:1-9; Matthew 28:1-10; Luke24:1-10; John 20:1, 11-18; Gospel of Peter ). In the Gospel of John, the risen Jesus gives her special teaching and commissions her as an apostle to the apostles to bring them the good news. She obeys and is thus the first to announce the resurrection and to play the role of an apostle, although the term is not specifically used of her. Later tradition, however, will herald her as "the apostle to the apostles." The strength of this literary tradition makes it possible to suggest that historically Mary was a prophetic visionary and leader within one sector of the early Christian movement after the death of Jesus.
The newly discovered Egyptian writings elaborate this portrait of Mary as a favored disciple. Her role as "apostle to the apostles" is frequently explored, especially in considering her faith in contrast to that of the male disciples who refuse to believe her testimony. She is most often portrayed in texts that claim to record dialogues of Jesus with his disciples, both before and after the resurrection. In theDialogue of the Savior, for example, Mary is named along with Judas (Thomas) and Matthew in the course of an extended dialogue with Jesus. During the discussion, Mary addresses several questions to the Savior as a representative of the disciples as a group. She thus appears as a prominent member of the disciple group and is the only woman named. Moreover, in response to a particularly insightful question, the Lord says of her, "´You make clear the abundance of the revealer!'" (140.17-19). At another point, after Mary has spoken, the narrator states, "She uttered this as a woman who had understood completely"(139.11-13). These affirmations make it clear that Mary is to be counted among the disciples who fully comprehended the Lord's teaching (142.11-13).
In another text, the Sophia of Jesus Christ, Mary also plays a clear role among those whom Jesus teaches. She is one of the seven women and twelve men gathered to hear the Savior after the resurrection, but before his ascension. Of these only five are named and speak, including Mary. At the end of his discourse, he tells them, "I have given you authority over all things as children of light," and they go forth in joy to preach the gospel. Here again Mary is included among those special disciples to whom Jesus entrusted his most elevated teaching, and she takes a role in the preaching of the gospel.
In the Gospel of Philip, Mary Magdalene is mentioned as one of three Marys "who always walked with the Lord" and as his companion (59.6-11). The work also says that Lord loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often (63.34-36). The importance of this portrayal is that yet again the work affirms the special relationship of Mary Magdalene to Jesus based on her spiritual perfection.
In the Pistis Sophia, Mary again is preeminent among the disciples, especially in the first three of the four books. She asks more questions than all the rest of the disciples together, and the Savior acknowledges that: "Your heart is directed to the Kingdom of Heaven more than all your brothers" (26:17-20). Indeed, Mary steps in when the other disciples are despairing in order to intercede for them to the Savior (218:10-219:2). Her complete spiritual comprehension is repeatedly stressed.
No, you do not have to be ordained as deacon to function as such. The ordination of women into deaconesses began relatively late, and with much resistance from the churches. And I wonder what "studies" you made and what unbiased sources you've got having you conclude what you do regarding "women in leadership". As for your notion of women being "fellow apostles" it is false. If you claim Junia was an apostle there is no reliable proof for such. And what makes you think you are an expert in greek? Care to show your qualifications? Me thinks you are much liking to hear your own voice and not much willing to stand corrected in many of the adventurous claims you make about many matters. Did you even read the link I provided? And what do you make out of these scriptures below, where you can find a woman pressed in into these scriptures?
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K
I don't know what church you belong to but in order to be in any office position in the church you have to be appointed, which is just another way of being ordained. And women deacon's were met with resistance, that is funny because Paul commended her for her role as a deacon. Paul did not say she was wrong and rebuke her.
Read post #547 as it shows women's roles as leadership in the early church, and there are many many more early church documents showing women in leadership roles. Even some that list a number of women as apostles, yet you would deny them just because they are not in the bible. Even though some of them were written around the same time or earlier then some of the books of the NT that we have in the bible.
That was part of that deception done at the Nicene council where they left books out, and changed scriptures to try and hide the fact of women apostles, teachers, preachers, and other leadership roles. Anybody who does an actual full in depth study will find this truth as it is not hidden.
Key
English
Greek
"Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus,To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons" Phil. 1:1
"Παῦλος καὶ Τιμόθεος δοῦλοι Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ πᾶσιν τοῖς ἁγίοις ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τοῖς οὖσιν ἐν Φιλίπποις σὺν ἐπισκόποις καὶ διακόνοις·" Phil 1:1
"Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued,[SUP][a][/SUP] not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain." 1 Tim. 3:8
"Διακόνους ὡσαύτως σεμνούς, μὴ διλόγους, μὴ οἴνῳ πολλῷ προσέχοντας, μὴ αἰσχροκερδεῖς," 1 Tim. 3:8
"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:" Romans 16:1 KJV
"Συνίστημι δὲ ὑμῖν Φοίβην τὴν ἀδελφὴν ἡμῶν, οὖσαν καὶ διάκονον τῆς ἐκκλησίας τῆς ἐν Κεγχρεαῖς," Romans 16:1
A simple look at the above three passages in English and Greek is very revealing.
διάκονος - [TABLE="width: 1"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Phil 1:1 - διακόνοις = diakonois Dative - Plural
1 Tim. 3:8 Διακόνους = Diakonous Accusative - Plural
Rms 16:1 διάκονον = diakonon - Accusative - Singular.So deacons in all three of these passages is the word diakonos, (Nominative masc singular)
In two cases it is plural and the third case it is singular, because it refers to one person.
If ANY male name had appeared in Romans 16:1 the word would have been translated, properly as "deacon". But KJ translators and many subsequent translators had to translate the word differently than the other occurrences, because it would support a woman being, well,
A DEACON!!
Phoebe is clearly a deacon, called and ordained by God, and acknowledged by Paul.
KJV also translates this as "minister" as do other versions. There are many examples of this, such as:
"Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power." Eph. 3:7 KJV
"οὗ ἐγενήθην διάκονος κατὰ τὴν δωρεὰν τῆς χάριτος τοῦ θεοῦ τῆς δοθείσης μοι κατὰ τὴν ἐνέργειαν τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ—" Eph. 3:7
"But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:" Eph. 6:21
"Ἵνα δὲ εἰδῆτε καὶ ὑμεῖς τὰ κατ’ ἐμέ, τί πράσσω, πάντα γνωρίσει ὑμῖν Τυχικὸς ὁ ἀγαπητὸς ἀδελφὸς καὶ πιστὸς διάκονος ἐν κυρίῳ," Eph. 6:21 Greek
"As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;" Col. 1:7 KJV
"καθὼς ἐμάθετε ἀπὸ Ἐπαφρᾶ τοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ συνδούλου ἡμῶν, ὅς ἐστιν πιστὸς ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν διάκονος τοῦ Χριστοῦ" Col. 1:7
"And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:" 1 Thess. 3:2 KJV
"και επεμψαμεν τιμοθεον τον αδελφον ημων και διακονον του θεου και συνεργον ημων εν τω ευαγγελιω του χριστου εις το στηριξαι υμας και παρακαλεσαι υμας περι της πιστεως υμων" 1 Thess. 3:2 Greek
This can be seen in many other texts, using diakonos.
To faithfully call each man a "minister or deacon" but to reduce a woman to the only "servant" does a great disservice to the Biblical text, the message of the New Testament and to God's calling for the church. Women were advanced in the New Testament to positions of leadership and authority, and their testimony is written into the Bible.
English
Greek
"Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus,To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons" Phil. 1:1
"Παῦλος καὶ Τιμόθεος δοῦλοι Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ πᾶσιν τοῖς ἁγίοις ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τοῖς οὖσιν ἐν Φιλίπποις σὺν ἐπισκόποις καὶ διακόνοις·" Phil 1:1
"Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued,[SUP][a][/SUP] not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain." 1 Tim. 3:8
"Διακόνους ὡσαύτως σεμνούς, μὴ διλόγους, μὴ οἴνῳ πολλῷ προσέχοντας, μὴ αἰσχροκερδεῖς," 1 Tim. 3:8
"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:" Romans 16:1 KJV
"Συνίστημι δὲ ὑμῖν Φοίβην τὴν ἀδελφὴν ἡμῶν, οὖσαν καὶ διάκονον τῆς ἐκκλησίας τῆς ἐν Κεγχρεαῖς," Romans 16:1
A simple look at the above three passages in English and Greek is very revealing.
διάκονος - [TABLE="width: 1"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"]
g
1249[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #E8E6B8, align: right"]
διάκονος
diakonos[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Phil 1:1 - διακόνοις = diakonois Dative - Plural
1 Tim. 3:8 Διακόνους = Diakonous Accusative - Plural
Rms 16:1 διάκονον = diakonon - Accusative - Singular.So deacons in all three of these passages is the word diakonos, (Nominative masc singular)
In two cases it is plural and the third case it is singular, because it refers to one person.
If ANY male name had appeared in Romans 16:1 the word would have been translated, properly as "deacon". But KJ translators and many subsequent translators had to translate the word differently than the other occurrences, because it would support a woman being, well,
A DEACON!!
Phoebe is clearly a deacon, called and ordained by God, and acknowledged by Paul.
KJV also translates this as "minister" as do other versions. There are many examples of this, such as:
"Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power." Eph. 3:7 KJV
"οὗ ἐγενήθην διάκονος κατὰ τὴν δωρεὰν τῆς χάριτος τοῦ θεοῦ τῆς δοθείσης μοι κατὰ τὴν ἐνέργειαν τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ—" Eph. 3:7
"But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:" Eph. 6:21
"Ἵνα δὲ εἰδῆτε καὶ ὑμεῖς τὰ κατ’ ἐμέ, τί πράσσω, πάντα γνωρίσει ὑμῖν Τυχικὸς ὁ ἀγαπητὸς ἀδελφὸς καὶ πιστὸς διάκονος ἐν κυρίῳ," Eph. 6:21 Greek
"As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;" Col. 1:7 KJV
"καθὼς ἐμάθετε ἀπὸ Ἐπαφρᾶ τοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ συνδούλου ἡμῶν, ὅς ἐστιν πιστὸς ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν διάκονος τοῦ Χριστοῦ" Col. 1:7
"And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:" 1 Thess. 3:2 KJV
"και επεμψαμεν τιμοθεον τον αδελφον ημων και διακονον του θεου και συνεργον ημων εν τω ευαγγελιω του χριστου εις το στηριξαι υμας και παρακαλεσαι υμας περι της πιστεως υμων" 1 Thess. 3:2 Greek
This can be seen in many other texts, using diakonos.
To faithfully call each man a "minister or deacon" but to reduce a woman to the only "servant" does a great disservice to the Biblical text, the message of the New Testament and to God's calling for the church. Women were advanced in the New Testament to positions of leadership and authority, and their testimony is written into the Bible.
K
Yes Junia was an apostle and there is reliable proof as I showed multiple times before as it was part to the deception.
They did not like the fact of a female apostle at the council, so they changed her name to male noun Junias by adding the s to the end of her name and changing the wording in the scripture.
II. THE TWO VIEWS: MALE VS. FEMALE
Part of the interpretive problem is that the word Iounian, translated as Junia(s), appears only once in the Greek New Testament (GNT) and is shown in the accusative case with a certain accent mark. The use or absence of such mark is a significant factor accounting for the textual variations that appear in the GNT. The oldest and most reliable Greek manuscripts contain no accents or punctuation marks. In addition, the GNT includes early support for a female named Ioulian, translated as "Junia." According to Douglas Moo, the problem with identifying this person "arises from the fact that the Greek form used here, Iounian, depending on how it is accented, could refer either (1) to a man with the name 'Junianus', found here in its contracted form, 'Junias' or (2) to a woman with the name of Junia."2 The use of such accents mark did not occur until the 9th or 10th century.How come that you just copy and paste the article without giving link to the original page at catolicosny.org and pbs.org...and also hide the name of the author? She is Karen L. King, someone who has published materials claiming to be The Gospel of Jesus's Wife. This then is your "unbiased" source? Well, there's nothing new in this article and aside from some speculations no case is made for women being ordained. That women witnessed and "preached" to the people is not questioned in this thread. Sigh.
Sorry to say sadly witnesses that, if we are going to go with this kind of 'false' testimony that comes from the carnal/flesh wisdom of this world, from a babes in CHRIST youth, through one's 'passions' and 'desires' compiled crafty version, also in 'mixture' with partial written scripture of the HOLY BIBLE in order to 'top it up'. Then ignorantly we who are 'lukewarm' acknowledge one with that person and togetherness like onto, 'a drunkard who is clever to mix drinks' and 'a Temple prostitute who would sleep with anyone who comes along the way'.
This is 'a term' the Living GOD used in 'righteous jealousy' on HIS redeemed people who have violated HIS given and made Covenant through Moses, later during HIS conversation with HIS chosen True Prophets. They are documented and given to us born again redeemed people to be used today as a cross-reference 'spiritual' knowledge of the same GOD, called the Old Testament.
As It was the same then, it is happening even today in immature Christians, and we who are called by GOD, as prophets to 'prophesy' and are also 'witnesses' to them, who are clearly highlighted their 'actions' by HIS Word. There is truthfully Scripture knowledge evidence of a resemblance similarity of 'Biblical false characters', an utter repetition of the carnal/flesh deception religious rebels ho have turned against GOD's established and written Covenant.
These same 'abomination' were committed by the Israelite then under the Old Covenant and as well as Christians now under the New Covenant, who have a tendcy, in their ignorant immaturity 'look back or turn back to the Egyptians or Pagans for 'wisdom as references' or 'power as help' and boldly together 'mix' them in their 'worship' to their GOD and boldly witnessing. All this have happen then and is happening now due to their GOD's Word 'spiritual' sound doctrine knowledge poverty.
We who ignore are one with them and henceforth also forget the wisdom and power of the Living GOD of the New Covenant, and also them, written in the Old Covenant, which HE made with HIS twice redeemed people, upon rescuing and liberating them from these very same hands that enslave them before. They were the 'earthly masters' and are of this world and it's wisdom, that which HIS people seek once again being carnal/flesh, who only enslaved them, even from the beginning.
So please make a wise choice and 'back off' or an unwise choice to continue in 'vain debates'.
Why do we want to commit 'spiritual sexual immorality' in the Temple of the Living GOD, where HIS SPIRIT lives, by continuing with them and giving encouragement to them in the name of 'false love'?
One who boldly and unshamefully love to mix the wisdom of this world with the wisdom of the Living GOD, just to justify a false intention and a false practice that is already happening in the churches of GOD today. They are 'false practices', even of character that clearly violates CHRIST's believers New Covenant faith, the written 'Kingdom order' of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT for all.
Why also do one continuously, in ignorance to the Holy Bible, violate 'CHRIST's commandment' through the HOLY SPIRIT and Apostle Paul who have already 'commanded' clearly, in similarity to the one given to Eve, that;
"Do not be 'conformed' to the pattern of this world."
Stubbornly one who remain in the flesh/carnality, prove that they are merely still the daughters of Eve, still in bondage to sin, who taught it is better in using their understanding, even though it goes against her 'head' Adam and GOD and HIS Word.
Repent!
For you have been already exposed and discovered once again, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST i proclaim using HIS Word, in order for faithful witnesses to witness how to distinguish between the 'spirit of error' and the 'spirit of truth'.
Thank you blessed ones of GOD in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
This is 'a term' the Living GOD used in 'righteous jealousy' on HIS redeemed people who have violated HIS given and made Covenant through Moses, later during HIS conversation with HIS chosen True Prophets. They are documented and given to us born again redeemed people to be used today as a cross-reference 'spiritual' knowledge of the same GOD, called the Old Testament.
As It was the same then, it is happening even today in immature Christians, and we who are called by GOD, as prophets to 'prophesy' and are also 'witnesses' to them, who are clearly highlighted their 'actions' by HIS Word. There is truthfully Scripture knowledge evidence of a resemblance similarity of 'Biblical false characters', an utter repetition of the carnal/flesh deception religious rebels ho have turned against GOD's established and written Covenant.
These same 'abomination' were committed by the Israelite then under the Old Covenant and as well as Christians now under the New Covenant, who have a tendcy, in their ignorant immaturity 'look back or turn back to the Egyptians or Pagans for 'wisdom as references' or 'power as help' and boldly together 'mix' them in their 'worship' to their GOD and boldly witnessing. All this have happen then and is happening now due to their GOD's Word 'spiritual' sound doctrine knowledge poverty.
We who ignore are one with them and henceforth also forget the wisdom and power of the Living GOD of the New Covenant, and also them, written in the Old Covenant, which HE made with HIS twice redeemed people, upon rescuing and liberating them from these very same hands that enslave them before. They were the 'earthly masters' and are of this world and it's wisdom, that which HIS people seek once again being carnal/flesh, who only enslaved them, even from the beginning.
So please make a wise choice and 'back off' or an unwise choice to continue in 'vain debates'.
Why do we want to commit 'spiritual sexual immorality' in the Temple of the Living GOD, where HIS SPIRIT lives, by continuing with them and giving encouragement to them in the name of 'false love'?
One who boldly and unshamefully love to mix the wisdom of this world with the wisdom of the Living GOD, just to justify a false intention and a false practice that is already happening in the churches of GOD today. They are 'false practices', even of character that clearly violates CHRIST's believers New Covenant faith, the written 'Kingdom order' of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT for all.
Why also do one continuously, in ignorance to the Holy Bible, violate 'CHRIST's commandment' through the HOLY SPIRIT and Apostle Paul who have already 'commanded' clearly, in similarity to the one given to Eve, that;
"Do not be 'conformed' to the pattern of this world."
Stubbornly one who remain in the flesh/carnality, prove that they are merely still the daughters of Eve, still in bondage to sin, who taught it is better in using their understanding, even though it goes against her 'head' Adam and GOD and HIS Word.
Repent!
For you have been already exposed and discovered once again, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST i proclaim using HIS Word, in order for faithful witnesses to witness how to distinguish between the 'spirit of error' and the 'spirit of truth'.
Thank you blessed ones of GOD in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
OK. I begin to see where you are coming from now. Sadly so, I must add. So, care to show all the references you got that claims that "there are many many more early church documents showing women in leadership roles. Even some that list a number of women as apostles"? Show us now these resources then.
K
I am not hiding anything, as I don't have to post the link and the author if I go and past over what is being said.
You don't need to go to that site and get what I already posted to be read. You just don't like the fact that it clearly does show, even form biblical scriptural evidence, women in leadership roles. You want to stick to your bias views and not what actually took place within the early church, and what the Greek context actually says a Angela53510 showed you once again in post #550.
Oh yeah but wait she is a women so you probably don't even read what she said, or believe it even though it is truth !!!
K
Female Prophets, Disciples, Ministers & Apostles Mentioned in the Bible
Romans 16:7: Paul refers to a male apostle, Andronicus, and a female apostle, Junia, as "outstanding among the apostles" (NIV) The Amplified Bible translates this passage as "They are men held in high esteem among the apostles" The Revised Standard Version shows it as "they are men of note among the apostles". The reference to them both being men does not appear in the original Greek text. The word "men" was simply inserted by the translators, apparently because the translators' minds recoiled from the concept of a female apostle. Many translations, including the Amplified Bible, Rheims New Testament, New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version simply picked the letter "s" out of thin air, and converted the original "Junia" (a woman) into "Junias" (a man).
I do not agree with the conclusions you make about this Angela, since they are not in line with the tradition that Paul upheld. It is wrong to assume that anyone is "reducing" the role of women by insisting that this tradition is to be kept, the discussion is not about that at all. Nobody here have yet to deny that women can not do this or that in the Kingdom of God. That's not what is discussed actually. It's about the order set forth even in the OT, being continued by Paul, and not intended to be changed. However you do argue seriously for your case, which is good, we are just not in agreement on this one.
Well, you did hide, intentionally or not, both the link to the article and the name of the author. Knowing now both the websites from which your material came and the author of the article it is telling where your resources comes from and how biased they are. You said now that (or rather accused) the Nicene council (of) having "left books out". Is The Gospel of Jesus's Wife, which your source Karen L. King worked with, one of these books you think was left out?
Funny that nothing in her article suggested that these women were ordained into any office. I do not oppose the fact that these women were used in ministering for God. The issue is ordination.
Aha. You are resorting to emotionalism which is maybe only par for the course. Too many others already did. The feminist affected have a hard time to discuss this without going hysterical. Proof of their "truth"? None.
Funny that nothing in her article suggested that these women were ordained into any office. I do not oppose the fact that these women were used in ministering for God. The issue is ordination.
Aha. You are resorting to emotionalism which is maybe only par for the course. Too many others already did. The feminist affected have a hard time to discuss this without going hysterical. Proof of their "truth"? None.