What laws are still in affect?

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

so, you being saved however you think you're saved, or not if you think you're not saved ... then someone else ? >>>, you (or they?) can drink antifreeze and battery acid "into the mouth"
just like koolaid or juice or water
and it won't defile you ???

Are you not taking Matthew 15:10,11way out of context in relation to what was being discussed here in this thread to the extreme while attempting to insinuate my posting of Matthew 15:10,11 here is an implication that it's acceptable to consume antifreeze and battery acid "just like koolaid or juice or water and it won't defile you?"

Matthew 15:10,11
10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

So that it's clear to you about what Jesus Christ was instructing here,....... It doesn't matter what food a person eats, even pork it will not defile them but what comes out of the mouth through the heart this defiles a person. Perhaps you have enjoyed a nice slice of pizza with extra cheese, pepperoni and Italian sausage and thanked God for supplying you with such tasty food?.......Well, probably not,.......See, poisons like battery acid and antifreeze are not considered food in the context of Matthew 15:10,11 as they are inedible poisons. Being deceived by books written by men for financial gain or internet fables created by men who don't know what they are talking about that tell a person not to eat food God has provided for thanks giving is like poison to the mind as well. If you consume it's contents there is no warning label but one should have a feeling something isn't quite right when what they are being taught doesn't stand up to truth and sound reasoning,.......

Colossians 2:16:23 GWT
16Therefore, let no one judge you because of what you eat or drink or about the observance of annual holy days, New Moon Festivals, or weekly worship days. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body [that casts the shadow] belongs to Christ. 18Let no one who delights in [false] humility and the worship of angels tell you that you don't deserve a prize. Such a person, whose sinful mind fills him with arrogance, gives endless details of the visions he has seen. 19He doesn't hold on to [Christ,] the head. Christ makes the whole body grow as God wants it to, through support and unity given by the joints and ligaments.

20If you have died with Christ to the world's way of doing things, why do you let others tell you how to live? It's as though you were still under the world's influence. 21People will tell you, "Don't handle this! Don't taste or touch that!" 22All of these things deal with objects that are only used up anyway. 23These things look like wisdom with their self-imposed worship, [false] humility, and harsh treatment of the body. But they have no value for holding back the constant desires of your corrupt nature.



1 Timothy 4:1-5 ESV
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

1 John 5:21 KJV
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[Sophia]

Actually, there is only one condemnation since Adam--unbelief.

From Moses to Christ, condemnation by the law was passed over until the death of Christ which atoned for it (Ro 3:25-26).


Actually, that is an "interpretation of man."

For there is no "letter (literal) of the Law" nor "Spirit of the Law" in the NT.

There is only "the letter", which is the Law, and "the spirit," which is the Holy Spirit.
There is no meaning of the Law apart from the letter (Law).
The only authority for the meaning of the Law is the Law (letter).


There is no knowing the meaning of a text without the "grammatical" approach.


The word of God is propositional, not esoteric.
Propositions are grammatical.
There is no correct understanding of the exoteric word of God without the "grammatical" approach.


And the Holy Spirit gives us understanding of the propositional grammar of the Law (letter),
which propositions are the authority.

Because the Law is written by the Spirit, the two can not contradict.
The contradiction comes from humanity being limited in understanding until truth is revealed.
The Letter is the literal understanding of man, and the Spirit is the Truth behind the letters that give the Book life... That it can be called the Living Word.

'Esoteric' is the opposite of what I was saying. Esoteric would be if the Bible was only understood by dedicated scholars, or people given some hidden knowledge. Instead, the 'key' is not knowledge or interest, but the Spirit.

I don't claim to have perfect understanding of all these things,
but firmly believe that perfect understanding is available to ALL those who have the Spirit, rather than only to those who study grammar and sentence structure. It is not our language skills, logical ability, or Greek/Hebrew resource availability that brings us to understand the Truth,
but the Spirit within each Believer. This is why even a child can come to understand deep truths of the Word, because it is not a scholastic study that reveals, but the Spirit.

Why else would so many seminaries be centers for distortion of the Word? Why is it that those in the high levels of Biblical studies seem to be the ones that can't agree on anything... even when in the same school of hermeneutic.

When people agree, it's generally because they were taught by the same individual... That is why we seek to be taught by the Spirit, and not mere professors.

 

[Dan_473]

If by your misguided question, do I shave a circle on my head to honor the sun god Ra, no I don't. Do I understand what the tassels were for and how they were the shadow of what was to come? Yes I do.



Oh please do.

I disagree that my question is misguided. I live near a major us city, and I sometimes see Jewish people who are careful to do what the law literally says... how do I know this? for one thing, they have tassels hanging out of the back of their jackets... so when I hear of a Christian who says they keep the law, I'm always interested in how it looks...

should a person do what each law literally says? or follow a looser guideline based on what they think the law is for? if it's the second, to me this raises the big question of how one can be sure they know the totallity of what each law is for... I'd think the 'safer' method would be to just do what the laws literally say (if one feels they still apply today).

 

[Dan_473]

If by your misguided question, do I shave a circle on my head to honor the sun god Ra, no I don't. Do I understand what the tassels were for and how they were the shadow of what was to come? Yes I do.



Oh please do.

one point I'm interested in is what is the practical difference between a person who keeps the law and the person who doesn't think they need to keep the law, but consults it for wisdom in how to live better.

I do cut the edges of my beard (if you can call it that) and I don't put tassels on... I don't do any particular actions because of a rule in the law, that I'm aware of...

 

[john832]

I disagree that my question is misguided. I live near a major us city, and I sometimes see Jewish people who are careful to do what the law literally says... how do I know this? for one thing, they have tassels hanging out of the back of their jackets... so when I hear of a Christian who says they keep the law, I'm always interested in how it looks...

should a person do what each law literally says? or follow a looser guideline based on what they think the law is for? if it's the second, to me this raises the big question of how one can be sure they know the totallity of what each law is for... I'd think the 'safer' method would be to just do what the laws literally say (if one feels they still apply today).

And you are convinced that these Jews, who did not recognize the Messiah and rejected Him, got this portion correct?

 

[KohenMatt]

They're all still effect. If not physically applicable, then certainly spiritual. Every single physical law in the Torah has a spiritual application. It's just a matter of whether people will look for it or just disregard the laws as old and worthless.

 

[john832]

one point I'm interested in is what is the practical difference between a person who keeps the law and the person who doesn't think they need to keep the law, but consults it for wisdom in how to live better.

I do cut the edges of my beard (if you can call it that) and I don't put tassels on... I don't do any particular actions because of a rule in the law, that I'm aware of...

Do you build a handrail around your deck? Do you put a barricade around an open pit? These are Laws. If you do them without knowing why...

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:

 

[Jeff_56]

the ones who can see , or search, honestly , and find out the truth,

have found out , as has been known for thousands of years,

that while eating pork may not (or may) defile a person,

it always results in a dramatic increase in illness. (and when not by faith, an increase in suffering from a curse).

so, whether it defiles a person or not, it is like antifreeze not a good idea to consume it.

those who do, may or may not ever see a difference. just like those who smoke.

 

[Mitspa]

You can eat too much of anything and its unhealthy...drink too much water and it will kill you...That's why the New Testament teaches that all things should be done in moderation and the fruit of the Spirit is self-control...walk in the Spirit and its life...that's the key to good health!

 

[Elin]

Because the Law is written by the Spirit, the two can not contradict.
The contradiction comes from humanity being limited in understanding until truth is revealed.
The Letter is the literal understanding of man, and the Spirit is the Truth behind the letters that give the Book life... That it can be called the Living Word.

In the NT, the letter is the Law itself.

In reality, the truth is in the letters (grammar), not behind them.
It is the truth conveyed in the letters (grammar) which the Holy Spirit gives us understanding of.
The Spirit cannot be separated from the letters (grammar) which he himself wrote.

And actually, the living Word is Jesus Christ (Jn 1:14).
Yes, Jesus words are the Spirit at work producing life, but Jesus is the living Word itself.

'Esoteric' is the opposite of what I was saying. Esoteric would be if the Bible was only understood by dedicated scholars, or people given some hidden knowledge. Instead, the 'key' is not knowledge or interest, but the Spirit.

I don't claim to have perfect understanding of all these things,
but firmly believe that perfect understanding is available to ALL those who have the Spirit,

Perfect may be going a little far, for those who have the Spirit sometimes disagree.

rather than only to those who study grammar and sentence structure. It is not our language skills, logical ability, or Greek/Hebrew resource availability that brings us to understand the Truth, but the Spirit within each Believer.

On this we are in 101% agreement.

But in order to preserve this truth, we must be careful not to separate the letter (grammar) from its Author for the sake of an understanding apart from the letter (grammar).
The Author and his letter (grammar) are inseparably joined.

is is why even a child can come to understand deep truths of the Word, because it is not a scholastic study that reveals, but the Spirit.

Yes, even a child can have saving knowledge, but we can't push that to include all of Scripture.

Why else would so many seminaries be centers for distortion of the Word? Why is it that those in the high levels of Biblical studies seem to be the ones that can't agree on anything... even when in the same school of hermeneutic.

But even those taught by the Spirit don't always agree on everything.

I don't think there is a solution this side of glory to your problem of a single understanding of God's Word.

 

[Elin]

They're all still effect. If not physically applicable, then certainly spiritual. Every single physical law in the Torah has a spiritual application. It's just a matter of whether people will look for it or just disregard the laws as old and worthless.

That is not the mind of Christ on this (Mt 22:37-40).

 

[Elin]

the ones who can see , or search, honestly , and find out the truth,

have found out , as has been known for thousands of years,

that while eating pork may not (or may) defile a person,

it always results in a dramatic increase in illness. (and when not by faith, an increase in suffering from a curse).

so, whether it defiles a person or not, it is like antifreeze not a good idea to consume it.

those who do, may or may not ever see a difference. just like those who smoke.

Yes, the "unhealthiness" of pork has nothing to do with it being ceremonially unclean.

 

[Mitspa]

Pork is a red meat and is derived from pig. It is high in protein and essential vitamins , minerals and amino acid good for overall health. Lean pork, when trimmed of visible fat, is nutrient-dense, satisfying, and good for you.


Nutrition of Pork

The fat in pork is tran-fat free and mostly mono-and poly-unsaturated, so trimmed pork is suitable for even cholesterol-lowering or healthy heart diets. Pork has a high mineral content of Phosphorus, Selenium, Sodium, Zinc, Potassium and Copper. The two minerals which are present in good quantities are Iron and Magnesium, while Calcium and Mangnese are found in traces only. Pork is highly enriched with Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Thiamin, Niacin, Riboflavin and Pantothenic Acid. Some quantities of Vitamin A and Vitamin E are found in very small amounts. Calorific value of Pork is 458.0 per 100 gm.

Health Benefits of Pork

The vitamin B1 in pork is in high quantity. Vitamin B1 is vital for growth and repair of muscles and nerve tissues, useful for carbohydrates metabolism as well.
The presence of vitamin Riboflavin helps in maintaining skin and health problems. It repairs damaged tissues and extracts energy from food.
Vitamin B6 present in pork meat helps in metabolism of fats, proteins and carbohydrates and keeps proper functioning of the nervous system.
Pork meat help in producing red blood cells in the body.
Iron in pork enhances production of energy and iron from meat is easily absorbed by the body.
The meat helps keep bones in good shape and builds strong bones, teeth and keeps a check on the body energy levels.
Zinc present in pork boosts the immune system and improves body resistance against numerous diseases.
Pork is a good source of protein and amino acids as is vital for people interested in bodybuilding.
t is good for skin, eyes, nervous system, bones and mental performance. Intake of Pork also ensures better immunity to body due to presence of essential antioxidants.

 

[Elin]

the ones who can see , or search, honestly , and find out the truth,

have found out , as has been known for thousands of years,

that while eating pork may not (or may) defile a person,

it always results in a dramatic increase in illness.

Not in the U.S.

(and when not by faith, an increase in suffering from a curse).

so, whether it defiles a person or not, it is like antifreeze not a good idea to consume it.

those who do, may or may not ever see a difference. just like those who smoke.

Yes, the alleged unhealthiness of pork is not why it is ceremonially unclean.

 

[Mitspa]

You can eat too much of anything and its unhealthy...drink too much water and it will kill you...That's why the New Testament teaches that all things should be done in moderation and the fruit of the Spirit is self-control...walk in the Spirit and its life...that's the key to good health!

Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

[john832]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]

Bottle of Radithor.
An example of the element Thorium
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bottle of Radithor.
Ah, now this is some real history. I wrote an article a few years ago about the radioactive health craze of the 1920's and 30's, when people felt that radiation was good for you and the government shut down as fraudulent anyone advertising radioactive health products that didn't actually contain enough radioactive material to match the claims of their ads.
This is one product they did not, at first, have any problem with. Radithor was the premier brand of radioactive water, containing significant amounts of radium and thorium. How much? Consider for a moment that this bottle has been empty probably for decades, but the cork is still strongly radioactive from whatever residue may have soaked into it before someone drank the contents.
It all came to an end in 1932 when the government reversed course and decided that radiation is actually bad for you. The FDA was created in part to regulate (i.e. ban) these radioactive quack medical cures.
And Radithor had a lot to do with that. It was so potent that people started seriously dying from it, including the well-publicized case of Eben Byers, a millionaire who could afford to drink three bottle a day, until, as the New York Times reported at the time "his jaw came off".

Contributor: Theodore Gray[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Mitspa]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]

Bottle of Radithor.
An example of the element Thorium
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bottle of Radithor.
Ah, now this is some real history. I wrote an article a few years ago about the radioactive health craze of the 1920's and 30's, when people felt that radiation was good for you and the government shut down as fraudulent anyone advertising radioactive health products that didn't actually contain enough radioactive material to match the claims of their ads.
This is one product they did not, at first, have any problem with. Radithor was the premier brand of radioactive water, containing significant amounts of radium and thorium. How much? Consider for a moment that this bottle has been empty probably for decades, but the cork is still strongly radioactive from whatever residue may have soaked into it before someone drank the contents.
It all came to an end in 1932 when the government reversed course and decided that radiation is actually bad for you. The FDA was created in part to regulate (i.e. ban) these radioactive quack medical cures.
And Radithor had a lot to do with that. It was so potent that people started seriously dying from it, including the well-publicized case of Eben Byers, a millionaire who could afford to drink three bottle a day, until, as the New York Times reported at the time "his jaw came off".

Contributor: Theodore Gray[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Don't drink it...but enjoy some pork in moderation ... Christ has made it clean and its good for you

 

[Jeff_56]

That is not the mind of Christ on this (Mt 22:37-40).

let's look>
[h=1] Matthew 22:37-40Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)[SUP]37 [/SUP]He told him, “‘You are to love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.’[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the greatest and most important mitzvah. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And a second is similar to it, ‘You are to love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]All of the Torah and the Prophets are dependent on these two mitzvot.”
Footnotes:[/h]

1. Matthew 22:37 Deuteronomy 6:5
2. Matthew 22:39 Leviticus 19:18

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.






nothing there that says the Torah and the Prophets stopped.... let's try another translation >>>

Matthew 22:37-40J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
37-40 Jesus answered him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind’. This is the first and great commandment. And there is a second like it: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself’. The whole of the Law and the Prophets depends on these two commandments.”
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
J. B. Phillips, "The New Testament in Modern English", 1962 edition by HarperCollins


hmmmm.
...... nothing there either that says the Law and the Prophets stopped.......

let's check out another translation >>>

Matthew 22:37-40Revised Standard Version (RSV)
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Revised Standard Version of the Bible, copyright © 1946, 1952, and 1971 the Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.


okay, i see a pattern here >> non of the translations say nor imply that the Torah, the Law, or the Prophets stopped.

this is besides all the times Yahshua said they would not stop.

.... hmmmm.... so , just what is "the mind of Christ"? being referred to.... something else not stated here?

 

[john832]

Don't drink it...but enjoy some pork in moderation ... Christ has made it clean and its good for you

Nowhere does the scripture say Christ changed His mind. He created some meats to be eaten and some not but hey, if modern science says it is good for you, it must be. They gave glowing endorsements to Radithor in the 20's and early 30's.