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Oh the whole book of Job is about manifold blessings? You demonstrate a frightening ignorance about the suffering of elder saints and others.
Scripture says we are counted as sheep for the slaughter and that the death of Gods saints is precious in His sight.
Lollypop Christianity has no depth and is like the seed that springs up but dies out quickly in the hear of the sun because it has no root.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Scripture says we are counted as sheep for the slaughter and that the death of Gods saints is precious in His sight.
Lollypop Christianity has no depth and is like the seed that springs up but dies out quickly in the hear of the sun because it has no root.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Could be the blab it grab it crowd.
If you are not healthy wealthy and wise it's because you have sinned.
What an insult to Godly parents who have a child that is sick and terminal. How does this kind of foolishness add to their suffering. Ok gotta stop before I get really mad.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you are not healthy wealthy and wise it's because you have sinned.
What an insult to Godly parents who have a child that is sick and terminal. How does this kind of foolishness add to their suffering. Ok gotta stop before I get really mad.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
So the truth makes you mad. Well that's the rebel heart of man. God said that with their lips this people serves Me but their heart is far from Me.
Tell me will you be angry with God if you get cancer and suffer? Will you blame God if you witness someone close to you die a slow and painful death from cancer?
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Is God glorified in saints that rejoice and praise Him as they suffer?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Tell me will you be angry with God if you get cancer and suffer? Will you blame God if you witness someone close to you die a slow and painful death from cancer?
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Is God glorified in saints that rejoice and praise Him as they suffer?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
L
Interesting, Just read this in my daily devotional this morning and then saw this thread up again today.
The reason this is such a topic is because people are suffering and are not healed, and yet others have experienced healing and do every day. And the question is a normal one that inquiring seeking minds want to know! Nothing crazy about it. Why some Christians think we should just accept sickness as if it is from God is another question.
The devil is the one who seeks to steal kill and destroy, Jesus came to give us life, and that more abundantly. And not just for when we are in heaven. The enemy wins when he gets us to believe this illness comes from God for a spiritual reason. Then we stop and don't fight it. The Bible says My people die for lack of knowledge. Find out about healing in the new covenant.
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]John 14:9
Jesus said to him, “…He who has seen Me has seen the Father…[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]Imagine the following scenario: A father tells his little girl, “Come here, girl. Mummy says that you have been playing by the roadside. Is that true?” “Yes, Daddy. I am sorry.” “Sorry? How many times have I told you not to play near the road? Come here! Lie down on the road and stretch out your legs!”
Daddy drives his car over his little girl’s legs. You can hear the sound of bones being crushed and the poor girl screaming in pain!
“Now, darling, you know that Daddy loves you. And Daddy did that to teach you a lesson, that playing by the roadside is dangerous.”
You are probably shaking your head in horror by now, wondering which sick father would do that. Yet, there are many Christians who believe that our heavenly Father does the same thing. They say that He gives people sicknesses, accidents, earthquakes and death to teach them lessons.
But Jesus said, “If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.” Jesus is the nature of God in action. Throughout the Gospels, we see Jesus or God going about healing the sick. If God wants some people sick, then there should be at least one incident in the Gospels where you see Jesus saying, “Behold, your complexion is too lovely, receive leprosy,” or “Blindness is good for you. Remain blind.” But no, never once! In fact, Jesus “went about doing good and healing allwho were oppressed by the devil”. (Acts 10:38) That’s the heart of God.
As a father, if your child is sick and in pain, your heart just wants him well. How much more your heavenly Father! My friend, God does not give your child a sickness to teach both of you some lesson or to glorify Himself. To think so is to talk out of a warped mind bound by religion! And Christianity is not a religion. It is a loving relationship with your Father in heaven.
Beloved, hear God speaking this to your heart today: “I will never punish you for your sins because they have been punished in My Son’s body. I do not wish you ill. I will not take away your child or give you a car wreck to teach you some lesson. My heart always wants My children well and joyful!”
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The reason this is such a topic is because people are suffering and are not healed, and yet others have experienced healing and do every day. And the question is a normal one that inquiring seeking minds want to know! Nothing crazy about it. Why some Christians think we should just accept sickness as if it is from God is another question.
The devil is the one who seeks to steal kill and destroy, Jesus came to give us life, and that more abundantly. And not just for when we are in heaven. The enemy wins when he gets us to believe this illness comes from God for a spiritual reason. Then we stop and don't fight it. The Bible says My people die for lack of knowledge. Find out about healing in the new covenant.
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]John 14:9
Jesus said to him, “…He who has seen Me has seen the Father…[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]Imagine the following scenario: A father tells his little girl, “Come here, girl. Mummy says that you have been playing by the roadside. Is that true?” “Yes, Daddy. I am sorry.” “Sorry? How many times have I told you not to play near the road? Come here! Lie down on the road and stretch out your legs!”
Daddy drives his car over his little girl’s legs. You can hear the sound of bones being crushed and the poor girl screaming in pain!
“Now, darling, you know that Daddy loves you. And Daddy did that to teach you a lesson, that playing by the roadside is dangerous.”
You are probably shaking your head in horror by now, wondering which sick father would do that. Yet, there are many Christians who believe that our heavenly Father does the same thing. They say that He gives people sicknesses, accidents, earthquakes and death to teach them lessons.
But Jesus said, “If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.” Jesus is the nature of God in action. Throughout the Gospels, we see Jesus or God going about healing the sick. If God wants some people sick, then there should be at least one incident in the Gospels where you see Jesus saying, “Behold, your complexion is too lovely, receive leprosy,” or “Blindness is good for you. Remain blind.” But no, never once! In fact, Jesus “went about doing good and healing allwho were oppressed by the devil”. (Acts 10:38) That’s the heart of God.
As a father, if your child is sick and in pain, your heart just wants him well. How much more your heavenly Father! My friend, God does not give your child a sickness to teach both of you some lesson or to glorify Himself. To think so is to talk out of a warped mind bound by religion! And Christianity is not a religion. It is a loving relationship with your Father in heaven.
Beloved, hear God speaking this to your heart today: “I will never punish you for your sins because they have been punished in My Son’s body. I do not wish you ill. I will not take away your child or give you a car wreck to teach you some lesson. My heart always wants My children well and joyful!”
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
L
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.All believers will do the same works that Jesus did; it’s not limited to ministers. There’s just a shortage of believing believers.How do you get to the place where you can see the miraculous happen in and through you? It starts with the renewing of your mind. Faith is based on knowledge, and everything we need to know to be a victorious Christian is explained in God’s Word. That’s what the Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 1:3-4:“According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
So the truth makes you mad. Well that's the rebel heart of man. God said that with their lips this people serves Me but their heart is far from Me.
Tell me will you be angry with God if you get cancer and suffer? Will you blame God if you witness someone close to you die a slow and painful death from cancer?
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Is God glorified in saints that rejoice and praise Him as they suffer?
Roger, I'm answering this as a cancer survivor. Who, I might add, just celebrated 5 years cancer-free in July.
Now, as to the questions I highlighted in red above. Was I angry with God because I got cancer? NO. Did I question him as to WHY I got cancer? Absolutely. Would I blame God if I watched someone close to me get cancer and suffer? No, I would not. WHY? Because we live in a fallen world, where sin is prevalent and illness is guaranteed.
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Well, the bible says to give thanks in ALL things, good AND bad. THIS saint rejoiced because I wasn't fully immobile during my most recent trial with a herniated back, which kept me in bed for about 5 months. I rejoiced because I could move, just barely, but I could move. I rejoiced each time I was able to get up and do what I needed to do, before the pain pills wore off and the pain plagued me again. Does God get glorified by the saints who praise Him as they are suffering? ABSOLUTELY YES... Without God, I would not be alive today. I would have succumbed to my depression and offed myself. Without God I'd still be incapacitated in bed. I thanked God for giving me cancer. I thanked God for my herniated back. My strength to endure through is not MY strength, it is GOD'S strength. Might I suggest you read these two of my threads so you gain a better understanding of what giving thanks in the midst of suffering is REALLY about?
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneo...h-my-pain.html
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/94389-blue_ladybugs-uterine-cancer-battle.html
Tell me will you be angry with God if you get cancer and suffer? Will you blame God if you witness someone close to you die a slow and painful death from cancer?
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Is God glorified in saints that rejoice and praise Him as they suffer?
Roger, I'm answering this as a cancer survivor. Who, I might add, just celebrated 5 years cancer-free in July.
Now, as to the questions I highlighted in red above. Was I angry with God because I got cancer? NO. Did I question him as to WHY I got cancer? Absolutely. Would I blame God if I watched someone close to me get cancer and suffer? No, I would not. WHY? Because we live in a fallen world, where sin is prevalent and illness is guaranteed.How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Well, the bible says to give thanks in ALL things, good AND bad. THIS saint rejoiced because I wasn't fully immobile during my most recent trial with a herniated back, which kept me in bed for about 5 months. I rejoiced because I could move, just barely, but I could move.
I rejoiced each time I was able to get up and do what I needed to do, before the pain pills wore off and the pain plagued me again. Does God get glorified by the saints who praise Him as they are suffering? ABSOLUTELY YES... Without God, I would not be alive today. I would have succumbed to my depression and offed myself. Without God I'd still be incapacitated in bed. I thanked God for giving me cancer. I thanked God for my herniated back. My strength to endure through is not MY strength, it is GOD'S strength. Might I suggest you read these two of my threads so you gain a better understanding of what giving thanks in the midst of suffering is REALLY about? http://christianchat.com/miscellaneo...h-my-pain.html
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/94389-blue_ladybugs-uterine-cancer-battle.html
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L
For my own life and faith, in spite of the many things in life that appose healing, I must go with the Word of God on this subject. Regardless of what the world is screaming and if the bullets are flying I'm going to keep believing God's Word to be true because that is where the hope and truth is. Hebrews 11:1 instructs us to appose the natural and dare to believe Him in the face of what the world says and proves.
There are many believers on cc who do not believe in healing for today for many reasons including the fact that they are not healed. I want to say to all of you that I am not you and must go forward in my journey with Jesus and that journey will not always resemble yours.
As to why some are healed and some are not? That is not for anyone to say and as a matter of fact, is not anyone's call. Whenever this topic comes up tons of people come on and give their testimony of sickness. Many do not believe in healing for themselves and do not want anyone else to interpret these Bible verses about healing differently than they do because it goes against their experiences with healing.
But respectfully I'm also saying my experiences with healing are different than yours and the truth must be told. On this subject, we have to agree to disagree and keep hope alive that "according as His divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness..." All things includes healing as I see it in the Bible. We Christians must agree to disagree on this subject and move forward.
Just like the subject of speaking in tongues and the other gifts for today, there are many Christians who live differently than those who do not believe in those gifts for today because God has shown them in our lives.
There are many believers on cc who do not believe in healing for today for many reasons including the fact that they are not healed. I want to say to all of you that I am not you and must go forward in my journey with Jesus and that journey will not always resemble yours.
As to why some are healed and some are not? That is not for anyone to say and as a matter of fact, is not anyone's call. Whenever this topic comes up tons of people come on and give their testimony of sickness. Many do not believe in healing for themselves and do not want anyone else to interpret these Bible verses about healing differently than they do because it goes against their experiences with healing.
But respectfully I'm also saying my experiences with healing are different than yours and the truth must be told. On this subject, we have to agree to disagree and keep hope alive that "according as His divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness..." All things includes healing as I see it in the Bible. We Christians must agree to disagree on this subject and move forward.
Just like the subject of speaking in tongues and the other gifts for today, there are many Christians who live differently than those who do not believe in those gifts for today because God has shown them in our lives.
L
His Word reveals that to us in 3 John 2, which says,
“Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.”
John was writing a letter to believers under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. He revealed that the Lord wants us healthy just as much as He wants us to prosper emotionally and mentally.
When Peter preached the Gospel to Cornelius in Acts 10:38, he summarized the ministry of Jesus by saying,
“How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
Today some preachers are saying that healing is of the devil, but that’s not the message Peter gave. Notice what Peter said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Not only was Jesus doing good when He healed people, but He healed all that were oppressed of the devil,not of God. That scripture clearly proves that sickness is not from God.
Isaiah 53 should end all debate. It was written prophetically about Jesus, the Messiah. Isaiah 53:4-5 says,
“Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
These verses reveal that physical healing is a part of the atonement of Christ. The Lord redeemed us from sickness just as much as He redeemed us from sin. He would no more want us to be sick than He would want us to sin. Those are radical statements to many Christians because we’ve been taught that forgiveness of sins is what salvation is all about. Well that’s certainly a vital part of salvation, but that’s not all that Jesus accomplished. We were also healed by His stripes. Sickness is not of God just as sin is not of God.
Isaiah 53:4-5 is also physical as well as emotional and spiritual, the Bible gives a commentary on Isaiah’s prophecy. In Matthew 8:16 Jesus healed all the sick people brought to Him, and verse 17 says this was done…
“That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.”
Scripture comments on itself and makes it very clear that the healing spoken of by Isaiah is referring to physical infirmities and sicknesses. If Jesus bore our sicknesses, then we don’t have to. That is how I see these verses after over 30yrs of being taught the other way.
Just as I was taught speaking in tongues was of the devil, we were taught healing was too.
We all have experiences after yeeeeaaaarrrrs of living another way and all that says to me is this... Believe God for your life and not someone elses experiences. He does not ask us to walk in someone elses shoes., We are told to not compare ourselves with each other or by each other. That brings a major snare. It's a personal relationship always.
“Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.”
John was writing a letter to believers under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. He revealed that the Lord wants us healthy just as much as He wants us to prosper emotionally and mentally.
When Peter preached the Gospel to Cornelius in Acts 10:38, he summarized the ministry of Jesus by saying,
“How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
Today some preachers are saying that healing is of the devil, but that’s not the message Peter gave. Notice what Peter said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Not only was Jesus doing good when He healed people, but He healed all that were oppressed of the devil,not of God. That scripture clearly proves that sickness is not from God.
Isaiah 53 should end all debate. It was written prophetically about Jesus, the Messiah. Isaiah 53:4-5 says,
“Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
These verses reveal that physical healing is a part of the atonement of Christ. The Lord redeemed us from sickness just as much as He redeemed us from sin. He would no more want us to be sick than He would want us to sin. Those are radical statements to many Christians because we’ve been taught that forgiveness of sins is what salvation is all about. Well that’s certainly a vital part of salvation, but that’s not all that Jesus accomplished. We were also healed by His stripes. Sickness is not of God just as sin is not of God.
Isaiah 53:4-5 is also physical as well as emotional and spiritual, the Bible gives a commentary on Isaiah’s prophecy. In Matthew 8:16 Jesus healed all the sick people brought to Him, and verse 17 says this was done…
“That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.”
Scripture comments on itself and makes it very clear that the healing spoken of by Isaiah is referring to physical infirmities and sicknesses. If Jesus bore our sicknesses, then we don’t have to. That is how I see these verses after over 30yrs of being taught the other way.
Just as I was taught speaking in tongues was of the devil, we were taught healing was too.
We all have experiences after yeeeeaaaarrrrs of living another way and all that says to me is this... Believe God for your life and not someone elses experiences. He does not ask us to walk in someone elses shoes., We are told to not compare ourselves with each other or by each other. That brings a major snare. It's a personal relationship always.
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P
Yup.and what are we to do with moses' pesky serpent on the cross dimension???
Don't you just hate that that refers to sickness and disease being forever nailed to the cross???
Maybe we can thumb our noses at it and find some verses that let us out of Gods provision.
Nah,nobody's that dumb.....oh,wait
Don't you just hate that that refers to sickness and disease being forever nailed to the cross???
Maybe we can thumb our noses at it and find some verses that let us out of Gods provision.
Nah,nobody's that dumb.....oh,wait
O
So the truth makes you mad. Well that's the rebel heart of man. God said that with their lips this people serves Me but their heart is far from Me.
Tell me will you be angry with God if you get cancer and suffer? Will you blame God if you witness someone close to you die a slow and painful death from cancer?
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Is God glorified in saints that rejoice and praise Him as they suffer?
Roger, I'm answering this as a cancer survivor. Who, I might add, just celebrated 5 years cancer-free in July. Now, as to the questions I highlighted in red above. Was I angry with God because I got cancer? NO. Did I question him as to WHY I got cancer? Absolutely. Would I blame God if I watched someone close to me get cancer and suffer? No, I would not. WHY? Because we live in a fallen world, where sin is prevalent and illness is guaranteed.
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Well, the bible says to give thanks in ALL things, good AND bad. THIS saint rejoiced because I wasn't fully immobile during my most recent trial with a herniated back, which kept me in bed for about 5 months. I rejoiced because I could move, just barely, but I could move. I rejoiced each time I was able to get up and do what I needed to do, before the pain pills wore off and the pain plagued me again. Does God get glorified by the saints who praise Him as they are suffering? ABSOLUTELY YES... Without God, I would not be alive today. I would have succumbed to my depression and offed myself. Without God I'd still be incapacitated in bed. I thanked God for giving me cancer. I thanked God for my herniated back. My strength to endure through is not MY strength, it is GOD'S strength. Might I suggest you read these two of my threads so you gain a better understanding of what giving thanks in the midst of suffering is REALLY about?
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneo...h-my-pain.html
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/94389-blue_ladybugs-uterine-cancer-battle.html
Tell me will you be angry with God if you get cancer and suffer? Will you blame God if you witness someone close to you die a slow and painful death from cancer?
How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Is God glorified in saints that rejoice and praise Him as they suffer?
Roger, I'm answering this as a cancer survivor. Who, I might add, just celebrated 5 years cancer-free in July.
Now, as to the questions I highlighted in red above. Was I angry with God because I got cancer? NO. Did I question him as to WHY I got cancer? Absolutely. Would I blame God if I watched someone close to me get cancer and suffer? No, I would not. WHY? Because we live in a fallen world, where sin is prevalent and illness is guaranteed.How do saints rejoice in the midst of suffering? Well, the bible says to give thanks in ALL things, good AND bad. THIS saint rejoiced because I wasn't fully immobile during my most recent trial with a herniated back, which kept me in bed for about 5 months. I rejoiced because I could move, just barely, but I could move.
I rejoiced each time I was able to get up and do what I needed to do, before the pain pills wore off and the pain plagued me again. Does God get glorified by the saints who praise Him as they are suffering? ABSOLUTELY YES... Without God, I would not be alive today. I would have succumbed to my depression and offed myself. Without God I'd still be incapacitated in bed. I thanked God for giving me cancer. I thanked God for my herniated back. My strength to endure through is not MY strength, it is GOD'S strength. Might I suggest you read these two of my threads so you gain a better understanding of what giving thanks in the midst of suffering is REALLY about? http://christianchat.com/miscellaneo...h-my-pain.html
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/94389-blue_ladybugs-uterine-cancer-battle.html
who in their right mind can't just LOVE that Lady-bug????
she does seem to have a 'handle' on certain things?????
yes, SUFFERING seems to be, for some of us, a great part of our lives......
for myself, a great deal of my suffering is because of ME......
BUT, before Me, I was subject to many horrific, defiling, acts.....
so, it was a combination of the TWO......
do I blame my Father??? NO, and I also DON'T blame myself....
my Father has given me 'common=ground' in order for me to keep my SANITY.....
I am always and forever THANK-FUL...................................
L
Popeye is being sarcastic... but it is not helpful for teaching and edifying the body and I truly wish he would make the effort to do so instead of heckling. Heckling has no purpose other than to entertain itself at the expense of others.
Thanks BarlyGurl, sometimes these posts go over my head and while many get the message, it's totally lost to me. Yes, I agree, many times I will make a joke and BOOM it is misunderstood and it takes 7 posts to clear up one little joke i made. So have been less generous with the jokes attempts.
At times making sense on these forums takes some doing. Amen. So while I would agree it's fun to joke and be funny-sarcastic, at other times it totally misses the mark.
E
Healing must be GOD's Divine Will. We must consider the reason why one is in need of Healing. Is the reason for Healing physical, natural, spiritual, emotional etc... some people need Healing due to their own sin, generational or for the Glory of GOD.
We are to Pray for the person and seek GOD's Divine Wisdom. Many times Healing comes through change of habits as well. When laying on of hands is considered one must have clean hands meaning standing upright before GOD not just a believer. The one in need of the Healing also must be upright before the LORD (in certain cases not all). But they must have Faith.
Again it is not just by the laying on of hands some must Fast. This is for casting out demons. Those who believe but are in need of a greater Faith must Fast. The demons know because if they do not fear they can cause harm to the individual or individuals.
Not all those in need of Healing will be Healed. The Bible does make it clear that we too will suffer. Either way we must just remain Faithful to GOD accept what is and declare for GOD I live move and have my being.
Blessings!!!!!!!
We are to Pray for the person and seek GOD's Divine Wisdom. Many times Healing comes through change of habits as well. When laying on of hands is considered one must have clean hands meaning standing upright before GOD not just a believer. The one in need of the Healing also must be upright before the LORD (in certain cases not all). But they must have Faith.
Again it is not just by the laying on of hands some must Fast. This is for casting out demons. Those who believe but are in need of a greater Faith must Fast. The demons know because if they do not fear they can cause harm to the individual or individuals.
Not all those in need of Healing will be Healed. The Bible does make it clear that we too will suffer. Either way we must just remain Faithful to GOD accept what is and declare for GOD I live move and have my being.
Blessings!!!!!!!
B
Thanks BarlyGurl, sometimes these posts go over my head and while many get the message, it's totally lost to me. Yes, I agree, many times I will make a joke and BOOM it is misunderstood and it takes 7 posts to clear up one little joke i made. So have been less generous with the jokes attempts. At times making sense on these forums takes some doing. Amen. So while I would agree it's fun to joke and be funny-sarcastic, at other times it totally misses the mark.
At times making sense on these forums takes some doing. Amen. So while I would agree it's fun to joke and be funny-sarcastic, at other times it totally misses the mark.