Questions and doubts

[LittleGirl]

The non-believer is faced with two options: accept that there is a prime cause Whom we know as God, and sincerely seek out the truth in regards to this Prime Cause, embodied in the Person of Jesus Christ, or believe that creation is an accident and that life holds no inherent meaning, value, or purpose. The OP has sadly chosen the latter

The O.P. is trying to understand where evil comes from.
Something you apparently think you know the answer to although it eludes far greater
minds than ours, here on this forum.

 

[LittleGirl]

From not being perfect. What is created from nothingness, is imperfect.

Only God is perfect, eternal and all-knowing.

Every creation is limited in knowledge, wishes etc and makes mistakes or inclines to evil.

Now you're saying God created imperfect beings.
But Genesis tells us that God said everything He created was good...
Genesis 1:31

So if HE says everything He created was good, how did it become ungood?

 

[trofimus]

Now you're saying God created imperfect beings.
But Genesis tells us that God said everything He created was good...
Genesis 1:31

So if HE says everything He created was good, how did it become ungood?

From not being perfect. Only God is perfect.

And only God is good in the absolute sense as Jesus testified to the rich man.

 

[maxwel]

All very nice.
But no answer.

The first thing you need to do is clarify your question.

We have 2 questions that are being confused.
1. How exactly did evil COME INTO BEING.
2. Why does God allow evil and suffering to CONTINUE TO OCCUR.

This are entirely different questions.
This thread started by asking the 2nd question, and now you're jumping to the first question.


Please pick one question at a time,
and then we can give you clear answers to a clear question.

If you don't feel like clarifying your question, and picking one at a time so it can be clearly addressed, then no one has any obligation, or even any ability, to answer you.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Don't you realize that vanity, selfishness and temptation of the flesh come from the sin nature? They're the "bad" in us.
Again, where did the bad in us come from?
Why did Adam and Eve eat the fruit if the sin nature did not exist yet in them?

flesh was before sin nature.....

the bad COMES from free will of beings who arent God and choose to disobey Him

and sin nature is different from choosing sin

we can speculate on WHY adam did what he did
at the end of the day HE did it....

 

[Magenta]

Well, actually no explanation is acceptable.

You said you believe God created satan.
So you believe God is not all-good. But the N.T. says that He is.

John 1:5 God is light and in Him there is no darkness. (darkness represents evil)
1 John 4:8 God is love. In love there dwells no hatred or darkness.

So, how to reconcile?

You reconcile by acknowledging that God created angels and humanity with a will of their own, that we may freely choose Him and life, or rebel against Him and choose death, and by further acknowledging that love can do no other than to give a choice in the matter of whether or not to love in return, for to do otherwise is simply forcing the matter by creating bots and/or taking hostages. God permits evil but in His sovereignty He did not ordain it. He has made allowances for evil while also showing us a way to know His moral will. If people were to follow the ten commandments the world would be unrecognizably altered from its present state, and so shall it be in the world to come, when those who have placed their faith in the atoning work of Christ shall pass from death into life ever after. Those who refuse to accept the gift God offers shall have their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life and shall pass into the second death.

 

[Magenta]

The O.P. is trying to understand where evil comes from.
Something you apparently think you know the answer to although it eludes far greater
minds than ours, here on this forum.

A number of people have given the same or similar answers.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulders.

 

[hornetguy]

You said you believe God created satan.
So you believe God is not all-good. But the N.T. says that He is.

God did create Satan.... he was created an angel of light, then chose to be removed from God's presence because he wanted to be as great as God is.

It was Satan's choice to become evil.....

 

[LittleGirl]

The first thing you need to do is clarify your question.

We have 2 questions that are being confused.
1. How exactly did evil COME INTO BEING.
2. Why does God allow evil and suffering to CONTINUE TO OCCUR.

This are entirely different questions.
This thread started by asking the 2nd question, and now you're jumping to the first question.


Please pick one question at a time,
and then we can give you clear answers to a clear question.

If you don't feel like clarifying your question, and picking one at a time so it can be clearly addressed, then no one has any obligation, or even any ability, to answer you.

Hi Maxwell,
I'm just trying to point out that there is no answer to either question no. 1 or question no. 2 but I'm not being very successful at it.

The biggest problem Christianity has is why evil exists: Where is comes from, and why God allows it to continue.

The fact is that there is no answer.
No one will come up with the answer because there is none.

Some believe that God created evil (or satan, same thing).
How could this be if God is all-good?
Why would He create something evil or something imperfect?

Man creates imperfection because man is imperfect.
God is perfect, so did He purposefully create imperfection?
Back to the same problem...so is He not all-good?

See. This is my only point.
I'm not really asking a question to which I know there's no answer.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The O.P. is trying to understand where evil comes from.
Something you apparently think you know the answer to although it eludes far greater
minds than ours, here on this forum.

you have many opinions...

Isaiah 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


God did create good beings

KNOWING they would be evil eventually by their own choice following their own wills

this does not mean God is evil


there is a much bigger point to this youre not able to see being so focused on things that will burn and be gone one day


God sets the standard of good and evil

but he is 100% righteous

if he wanted to give you a chance to live for ever and set up this whole world knowing what would happen but giving everyone a way to choose good at every point

all in order to show the difference between good and evil while glorifying His ways and His name


showing WHY evil is so bad

and WHY righteousness is so good

who are you to question him ?

 

[LittleGirl]

God did create Satan.... he was created an angel of light, then chose to be removed from God's presence because he wanted to be as great as God is.

It was Satan's choice to become evil.....

Hornet guy...
Where did the evil come from?

Didn't God create all the angels perfectly?

 

[beta]

The O.P. is trying to understand where evil comes from.
Something you apparently think you know the answer to although it eludes far greater
minds than ours, here on this forum.

It comes from the heart (uncircumcised ?) of man
Mat 15v19, For out of the heart procede evil thoughts........
Jer 17v9, the heart is deceitful above all things...and desparately wicked......
Isa 14v12,13 Lucifer...for thou hast said in thine heart.....

man not only needs a new spirit but also a new heart.

 

[LittleGirl]

You reconcile by acknowledging that God created angels and humanity with a will of their own, that we may freely choose Him and life, or rebel against Him and choose death, and by further acknowledging that love can do no other than to give a choice in the matter of whether or not to love in return, for to do otherwise is simply forcing the matter by creating bots and/or taking hostages. God permits evil but in His sovereignty He did not ordain it. He has made allowances for evil while also showing us a way to know His moral will. If people were to follow the ten commandments the world would be unrecognizably altered from its present state, and so shall it be in the world to come, when those who have placed their faith in the atoning work of Christ shall pass from death into life ever after. Those who refuse to accept the gift God offers shall have their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life and shall pass into the second death.

I was going to answering the above but then saw your answer about a chip on my shoulder.
No chips.

and no answer.

If God loves His creation, and He knew how we'd suffer, why did He create us?
Then is God not omniscient maybe?

 

[LittleGirl]

you have many opinions...

Isaiah 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


God did create good beings

KNOWING they would be evil eventually by their own choice following their own wills

this does not mean God is evil


there is a much bigger point to this youre not able to see being so focused on things that will burn and be gone one day


God sets the standard of good and evil

but he is 100% righteous

if he wanted to give you a chance to live for ever and set up this whole world knowing what would happen but giving everyone a way to choose good at every point

all in order to show the difference between good and evil while glorifying His ways and His name


showing WHY evil is so bad

and WHY righteousness is so good

who are you to question him ?

I don't question God.
And He knows I don't.
Job 38:4

 

[LittleGirl]

It comes from the heart (uncircumcised ?) of man
Mat 15v19, For out of the heart procede evil thoughts........
Jer 17v9, the heart is deceitful above all things...and desparately wicked......
Isa 14v12,13 Lucifer...for thou hast said in thine heart.....

man not only needs a new spirit but also a new heart.

Amen to that.

 

[shrume]

Well, actually no explanation is acceptable.

You said you believe God created satan.
So you believe God is not all-good.

That's not true.

But the N.T. says that He is.

That's right.

John 1:5 God is light and in Him there is no darkness. (darkness represents evil)
1 John 4:8 God is love. In love there dwells no hatred or darkness.

So, how to reconcile?

Understand free will.

 

[maxwel]

All very nice.
But no answer.

1. I wasn't trying to pose an answer to the OP,
I was giving an explanation of why ALL ANSWERS TO THE OP will CONTINUE to be ignored.
: )


2. There were many answers already given to the question "Why does God allow suffering in the world."... answers which have mostly been ignored.
- There were some good biblical answers.
- There were some insightful, though not conclusive, personal answers.
- And you had at least one extremely powerful philosophical answer, which is logically irrefutable, when Trofimus gave the Leibnizian argument.

3. Then, you seem to have CHANGED the entire focus, and circumvented these answers by ASKING A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

If this was an accident, then you need to refocus, and deal with the question of the OP.
If this was intentional, then you really shouldn't use such deceptive tactics.

I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you weren't trying to circumvent the answers by intentionally changing the question.

I'm sure you had good intentions, and therefore, you would be happy to focus on just one question, the original question of the OP. The original question was regarding "WHY God ALLOWS evil" ... not it's ontological status.

 

[Magenta]

Rejecting the answers given does not equate to no answers being given, which has already been pointed out to you. You don't like the answers, but that does not mean they are not relevant. Evil and suffering are caused by mankind's refusal to follow the moral will of God. God's permissive will allows it. His sovereign will shall bring an end to evil in the fullness of time. Those who have placed their faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Who willingly gave His life due to His great love for us, shall enter into life ever after, and those not found in Christ at the time of the resurrection and judgment of all, shall pass into the second death. You have a choice. Choose wisely

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I don't question God.
And He knows I don't.
Job 38:4

im sorry... if that's true

i must have misread your intent
(._.')

 

[shrume]

The biggest problem Christianity has is why evil exists: Where is comes from, and why God allows it to continue.

The fact is that there is no answer.
No one will come up with the answer because there is none.

Some answers were provided. You just don't like them or choose not to accept them.

Some believe that God created evil

God did not create evil.

(or satan, same thing).

Satan was not evil when God created him.

How could this be if God is all-good?
Why would He create something evil or something imperfect?

He did not create anything evil. He did create free-will beings, who chose to disobey Him.

Man creates imperfection because man is imperfect.
God is perfect, so did He purposefully create imperfection?
Back to the same problem...so is He not all-good?

God is all good.

He created beings with free will. Some of those beings choose to disobey Him.

See. This is my only point.
I'm not really asking a question to which I know there's no answer.

There are answers.