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A
Red Jesus prayed 3 times to have the cup taken from Him.
Paul prayed 3 times also
When we pray at least some of us, that the will of the Lord be done.....it is not doubting or doubleminded at all period.
God is not playing some game with us.
Faith is honoring Him for who He is and what He wills ...not a physical/mental/brainwash excercise.
Paul prayed 3 times also
When we pray at least some of us, that the will of the Lord be done.....it is not doubting or doubleminded at all period.
God is not playing some game with us.
Faith is honoring Him for who He is and what He wills ...not a physical/mental/brainwash excercise.
A child may ask his mum for peanuts and the mum knows ahead of time her child is allergic.....
We will get what we need which is not always what we want, yet trusting Heavenly Father is Faithful and True and Good all the time.. even if i'm sick he is Good and Loves me.
Each journey home encounters different experiences.
Matthew 6
We will get what we need which is not always what we want, yet trusting Heavenly Father is Faithful and True and Good all the time.. even if i'm sick he is Good and Loves me.
Each journey home encounters different experiences.
Matthew 6
I like what you said, and I agree fully.
But what of those believers who live in a place where this is not even an option?
(we have friends who work as missionaries in very remote areas of the world.)
What about the members of Christ's body who have no access to clean water, balanced nutrition, and toothbrushes and showers?
Will the Lord condemn them?
(silly idea, right?)
But what of those believers who live in a place where this is not even an option?
(we have friends who work as missionaries in very remote areas of the world.)
What about the members of Christ's body who have no access to clean water, balanced nutrition, and toothbrushes and showers?
Will the Lord condemn them?
(silly idea, right?)
Do we have (Ps 91) as a promise from God for those who abide under the shadow of the Almighty? Read the Psalm and see the protection of the believer and that would be good from any demographic, poor or rich, deprived or robust, civilized or not. What does it mean to really abide under the shadow of the Almighty, to have that protection that has been promised? We have to go and seek that out and then take God up on His promise, knowing by faith, with no doubt, that He is faithful to what He has promised. Faith is not presumptuous because it rests in the promise of God who will bring it to past.
When our Lord prayed to the Father at this time in His life, great thick drops of blood was coming from His pours because of all the demonic pressure that was upon Him causing this tremendous grief of sorrow and of being exceedingly heavy (or troubled with distress in His humanity) to the point of death (which would have been premature of the cross). There are two things that you have to consider in His request to the Father that revealed His heart and the focus He had upon the mission for why He came (Mt 26:37-45)...
(v.39) ...if it be possible let this cup pass from me, but nevertheless not my will be done but thine.
After the third time the cup had past and they came to betray Him in (v.46ff). This cup was a cup of great atmospheric pressure upon His body to kill Him premature of the cross so that He could not be able to shed His blood and deal with the sins of man before the Father. It was a great temptation that came upon the flesh of His humanity, almost too much to bare, but it did past and the Father did let it pass from Him because if not, then he would not have been able to be betrayed and make it to the cross as the Lamb of God. If don't see that the cup had past, then you have a problem.
Paul had a thorn in his flesh that constantly buffeted and beat him up, a demon and messenger of Satan. In this case it was most unbearable and Paul wanted it taken away because he had no power over it. But God left it for a season, so that Paul would learn how to receive grace and have that grace be his sufficiency for his weakness in the will of God. He prayed to God for himself in relationship to this nagging minister of Satan and God worked grace into his life personally, a fellowship with His sufferings, like the Lord suffered in the garden when He bore that cup.
grrrrrr - are you angry with me and are you going to charge me of handling the word of God deceitfully?
(v.39) ...if it be possible let this cup pass from me, but nevertheless not my will be done but thine.
After the third time the cup had past and they came to betray Him in (v.46ff). This cup was a cup of great atmospheric pressure upon His body to kill Him premature of the cross so that He could not be able to shed His blood and deal with the sins of man before the Father. It was a great temptation that came upon the flesh of His humanity, almost too much to bare, but it did past and the Father did let it pass from Him because if not, then he would not have been able to be betrayed and make it to the cross as the Lamb of God. If don't see that the cup had past, then you have a problem.
Paul had a thorn in his flesh that constantly buffeted and beat him up, a demon and messenger of Satan. In this case it was most unbearable and Paul wanted it taken away because he had no power over it. But God left it for a season, so that Paul would learn how to receive grace and have that grace be his sufficiency for his weakness in the will of God. He prayed to God for himself in relationship to this nagging minister of Satan and God worked grace into his life personally, a fellowship with His sufferings, like the Lord suffered in the garden when He bore that cup.
grrrrrr - are you angry with me and are you going to charge me of handling the word of God deceitfully?
Thanks, loveme1.
I was just thinking of those very words. ♥
I was just thinking of those very words. ♥
Jm 4:2,3
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Would any of you like to interpret the meaning given here above by a Jewish man named James?
And how would you come to an understanding concerning this...
Mt 7:7-11
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil (poneros), know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Interesting passage, is it not? Where is the practicality and application for this passage that has come from the lips of our Lord Jesus Christ? Marvel!
A
No Red, not angry. But we have need to see the whole council of God in these doctrines.
Yes i agree when im sick i go to the Lord and surely in faith i make my request to me healed.
That we can teach. But there are other dynamics. Some we dont know.
The Father just didnt leave Pauls thorn...He sent it. Jesus simply was facing death, all I was
pointing out there was a rebutal to you while you were saying we cant pray having any
doubt to receive what we ask for.....that is wrong Jesus was perfect and He received a big
NO! If praying in faith as you were saying was any guarantee for getting what we want then Jesus
would have received what He requested.
But as He said that a servant will never rise above his master....i will follow His lead
and example and pray "thy will be done"
P
I am openly admitting that there have been times in the past when I did wonder if I was being presumptuous.
It was definitely a struggle, for a while.
So I have to agree on that point.
But what do we do with this?
When He got into the boat, His disciples followed Him.
And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was being covered with the waves; but Jesus Himself was asleep.
And they came to Him and woke Him, saying, “Save us, Lord; we are perishing!”
He said to them, “Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?” Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm.
The men were amazed, and said, “What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?”
Do you see what I mean?
There was no faith there to be 'acted upon', yet the Lord knew His plan and purpose, and He did what was best...
Do you see how there's more than one way to see this issue?
(I'm pleading with you, now ♥
Of course, faith is what pleases God.
But where does it come from?
Is it a gift from God?
Is each person given a 'measure' of it?
That's what I can't understand...
It increases, naturally. (and it increases naturally )
I don't want to quarrel, and I do want us to be friends.
I have been so blessed by what you share.
Please don't let this cause a rift?
♥
It was definitely a struggle, for a while.
So I have to agree on that point.
But what do we do with this?
When He got into the boat, His disciples followed Him.
And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was being covered with the waves; but Jesus Himself was asleep.
And they came to Him and woke Him, saying, “Save us, Lord; we are perishing!”
He said to them, “Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?” Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm.
The men were amazed, and said, “What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?”
Do you see what I mean?
There was no faith there to be 'acted upon', yet the Lord knew His plan and purpose, and He did what was best...
Do you see how there's more than one way to see this issue?
(I'm pleading with you, now ♥
Of course, faith is what pleases God.
But where does it come from?
Is it a gift from God?
Is each person given a 'measure' of it?
That's what I can't understand...
It increases, naturally. (and it increases naturally
)I don't want to quarrel, and I do want us to be friends.
I have been so blessed by what you share.
Please don't let this cause a rift?
♥
P
Well...this is just my understanding, but
if my son asked me not to make him do the dishes when it was his turn,
and I always did that, would that make me a good mom?
Does a good gift from the hand of God always have to appear good to me?
If the Lord had ever given me absolutely everything I wanted, I'd be in bad shape.
Because I was too young to know what was best for me.
(still am, in many ways)
I think I just must be less...good than you are?
(I mean that in all sincerity, and no harm or sarcasm intended.)
It seems you've already discerned that, anyway.
So, if the Lord has to give me things I don't like to help me,
to cause me to seek His face, and not His hand,
I am incredibly grateful for it.
I just want to grow up to look like my Dad.
if my son asked me not to make him do the dishes when it was his turn,
and I always did that, would that make me a good mom?
Does a good gift from the hand of God always have to appear good to me?
If the Lord had ever given me absolutely everything I wanted, I'd be in bad shape.
Because I was too young to know what was best for me.
(still am, in many ways)
I think I just must be less...good than you are?
(I mean that in all sincerity, and no harm or sarcasm intended.)
It seems you've already discerned that, anyway.
So, if the Lord has to give me things I don't like to help me,
to cause me to seek His face, and not His hand,
I am incredibly grateful for it.
I just want to grow up to look like my Dad.
L
You are disagreeing with God and His word, not me.
Now you multiply your sin by changing God's clear word based on carnal experience.
No, they just do not understand God's covenant of healing with His saints. Please click on the link and read why Christians fail to receive healing: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53578-why-many-fail-receive-healing.html
Some will not die and 2 already did not. However most will but they do not have to die sick. Moses and Aaron did not. A gentle transition to be with Jesus is quite possible. Be it to you according to your faith.
The prayer of faith ALWAYS receives healing, Mark 11:24. We have for 35 years raising 7 children to adulthood.
He provides healing as well. He did a work in us by training us to trust Him alone for healing. He started with me healing severe burns instantly and healing our children. Then we learned to trust Him even when nothing looked better and even got worse while time went by, sometimes quite a bit of time. Read Hebrews 11:1 and then read Mark 11:24 noting the tenses. He will do the same for anyone who will submit to the training. It seems most will not. How about you?
Job was involved in the highest form of spiritual warfare which is explained in chapters 1 and 2. Most Christians would NEVER trust God alone in a trial one tenth as severe even though they have 66 books, the Acts 2:4 experience, the word, name and blood of Jesus, the armor of God and more. Job trusted God alone right to death's door, Satan was proven wrong, Job's friends received a lesson, and Job was healed and restored.
I have no doubt that Paul had physical trials but nowhere does it say he was not healed. The thorn was not sickness but a demon personality sent to buffet him i.e. persecution.
Here is the purpose of trials that some time may passes before what is received by faith is manifested to our sight. This includes fiances like a new vehicle WITHOUT going into debt, physical trails, persecution. Faith receives the answer and waits in faith until it comes. It does.
James 1:2-4
New King James Version (NKJV)
Profiting from Trials
2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
1 Peter 1:6-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
God displayed His glory in each instance by the healing/dead raising not the illness/death. If someone dies today there is not one Christian in 10,000 that would pray for him to be raised. 0 people prayed for equals 0 people raised. We have seen it 3 times, but also failures. How about you?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53578-why-many-fail-receive-healing.html Please read this.
God does not play mind games and will clearly show what the issues are and give GRACE to change them and endure in FAITH trusting Him alone until the answer is manifested. Most just assume He does not care, not is His will, or does not hear them, so why bother seeking Him for the reasons.
Wrong thinking!
Now you multiply your sin by changing God's clear word based on carnal experience.
No, they just do not understand God's covenant of healing with His saints. Please click on the link and read why Christians fail to receive healing: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53578-why-many-fail-receive-healing.html
Some will not die and 2 already did not. However most will but they do not have to die sick. Moses and Aaron did not. A gentle transition to be with Jesus is quite possible. Be it to you according to your faith.
The prayer of faith ALWAYS receives healing, Mark 11:24. We have for 35 years raising 7 children to adulthood.
He provides healing as well. He did a work in us by training us to trust Him alone for healing. He started with me healing severe burns instantly and healing our children. Then we learned to trust Him even when nothing looked better and even got worse while time went by, sometimes quite a bit of time. Read Hebrews 11:1 and then read Mark 11:24 noting the tenses. He will do the same for anyone who will submit to the training. It seems most will not. How about you?
Job was involved in the highest form of spiritual warfare which is explained in chapters 1 and 2. Most Christians would NEVER trust God alone in a trial one tenth as severe even though they have 66 books, the Acts 2:4 experience, the word, name and blood of Jesus, the armor of God and more. Job trusted God alone right to death's door, Satan was proven wrong, Job's friends received a lesson, and Job was healed and restored.
I have no doubt that Paul had physical trials but nowhere does it say he was not healed. The thorn was not sickness but a demon personality sent to buffet him i.e. persecution.
Here is the purpose of trials that some time may passes before what is received by faith is manifested to our sight. This includes fiances like a new vehicle WITHOUT going into debt, physical trails, persecution. Faith receives the answer and waits in faith until it comes. It does.
James 1:2-4
New King James Version (NKJV)
Profiting from Trials
2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
1 Peter 1:6-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
God displayed His glory in each instance by the healing/dead raising not the illness/death. If someone dies today there is not one Christian in 10,000 that would pray for him to be raised. 0 people prayed for equals 0 people raised. We have seen it 3 times, but also failures. How about you?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53578-why-many-fail-receive-healing.html Please read this.
God does not play mind games and will clearly show what the issues are and give GRACE to change them and endure in FAITH trusting Him alone until the answer is manifested. Most just assume He does not care, not is His will, or does not hear them, so why bother seeking Him for the reasons.
Wrong thinking!
We shouldn't just sit there in despair but pray to God for healing however we should also be
or healing will be delayed. Also, some people's healing is God calling them home. God is sovereign over every creature and knows what's best.
H
I apologize Red, for lumping you in with lesjude...it was wrong of me to assume that...please forgive me So...are you saying that there is no promise of guaranteed physical healing (in this life)?
i can't think of a time when any of these things pleased God. but i was never referring to any of these things as a justifiable excuse for one not being healed. i just don't think God HAS to do anything, including healing us of our physical ailments. He promised to mold us into the image of His Son...and if He chooses to use a physical ailment to do that, then that is entirely His choice and He knows best. Besides, some physical trials help purge us of the above mentioned list that you provided.
The only 'problem' that I have with your statement is where you say that we can expect God to give us what we have petitioned...it seems that there is a stipulation there that He must answer us in the way that we deem necessary. If that is what you are saying, then I don't agree with that at all. If I get sick and pray to be restored...am I only praying for physical restoration, or is my hearts desire to experience spiritually healing, to be made more like Christ? My body may not experience this 'restoration' that I have prayed for, but my spirit has, and quite honestly, when I go to be with the Lord, He will have answered my prayer...I will be restored. Like I said, this happens all the time...and I do agree with you that sometimes, probably more then we care to admit, people can experience healing yet don't, because of unbelief. Lord I believe, help me with my unbelief. We cannot turn a blind eye to the stuff that happens around us, pretending that we have all the answers and know God's will in each person's life. We should pray that those who are sick among us, are healed by God. We should pray it AND we should believe it. We also have to recognize that sometimes that healing may come in a way that we didn't expect...and that, even IF God says 'no' to a physical healing, He will still provide the real healing that our souls crave. I would just like to mention (and this isn't specifically for you Red) that Jesus never dealt with the superficial ailments that people had...He was always dealing with something deeper.
So...are you saying that there is no promise of guaranteed physical healing (in this life)? i can't think of a time when any of these things pleased God. but i was never referring to any of these things as a justifiable excuse for one not being healed. i just don't think God HAS to do anything, including healing us of our physical ailments. He promised to mold us into the image of His Son...and if He chooses to use a physical ailment to do that, then that is entirely His choice and He knows best. Besides, some physical trials help purge us of the above mentioned list that you provided.
The only 'problem' that I have with your statement is where you say that we can expect God to give us what we have petitioned...it seems that there is a stipulation there that He must answer us in the way that we deem necessary. If that is what you are saying, then I don't agree with that at all. If I get sick and pray to be restored...am I only praying for physical restoration, or is my hearts desire to experience spiritually healing, to be made more like Christ? My body may not experience this 'restoration' that I have prayed for, but my spirit has, and quite honestly, when I go to be with the Lord, He will have answered my prayer...I will be restored. Like I said, this happens all the time...and I do agree with you that sometimes, probably more then we care to admit, people can experience healing yet don't, because of unbelief. Lord I believe, help me with my unbelief. We cannot turn a blind eye to the stuff that happens around us, pretending that we have all the answers and know God's will in each person's life. We should pray that those who are sick among us, are healed by God. We should pray it AND we should believe it. We also have to recognize that sometimes that healing may come in a way that we didn't expect...and that, even IF God says 'no' to a physical healing, He will still provide the real healing that our souls crave. I would just like to mention (and this isn't specifically for you Red) that Jesus never dealt with the superficial ailments that people had...He was always dealing with something deeper.