10 Concise Reasons to Remember the Sabbath

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beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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Two various covenants cannot be valid in the same time.

Also, Paul said that the Law was until Christ.

And Christ said that the Law and Prophets were until John the Baptist.

And the author of Hebrews said that the old covenant is obsolete.

To live under two different covenants is not standing on two legs, its more like living according the communist code in a post-communist country.
I did stress that I was talking about the Commandments of God which are spiritual and eternal - and NOT about the 'works of the law which Christ fulfilled and thus became abolished Eph 2v15, Col 2v14. Did you not notice ???
The New Covenant also has laws !...which God writes on our hearts Heb 8v10.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I never did thank you for your pleasant response of mocking a girl, who after a failed suicide attempt , came to Christ.

thanks for showing your true colors.
I never mocked anyone who is having trouble with life. You have proven yourself less than honest, again, and willing to use a poor girl having serious problems as a stepping stone to promote your own righteousness, and as a club to beat on those who disagree with your religious doctrines. You can climb on people having a hard time, and use them to exalt yourself if that is your religion.

But I think that is about as low as someone can go, even for you.

I hope this poor girl can see there is hope, but not be convinced to place her hope in religious man. I will pray for her.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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I did stress that I was talking about the Commandments of God which are spiritual and eternal - and NOT about the 'works of the law which Christ fulfilled and thus became abolished Eph 2v15, Col 2v14. Did you not notice ???
The New Covenant also has laws !...which God writes on our hearts Heb 8v10.
If the source of those eternal laws is the New Testament, then OK.

If the source of those "eternal commandments" is the obsolete covenant, then its obviously a strange situation.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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Which is the exact opposite of what the bible both explicitly and implicitly states (e.g., 2 Corinthians 3:7), i.e., the law of Christ obsoletes the law of Moses. But sabbatarians can only see the law of Moses. Moses drives, while Christ takes the back seat.
If you were to read my posts more carefully you would see I am talking of GOD's Spiritual Commandments...not Moses'.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I did stress that I was talking about the Commandments of God which are spiritual and eternal - and NOT about the 'works of the law which Christ fulfilled and thus became abolished Eph 2v15, Col 2v14. Did you not notice ???
The New Covenant also has laws !...which God writes on our hearts Heb 8v10.
The law of Moses can only pertain to the living. It doesn't have force over dead people, which we are in Christ; whose slaves we now are, obeying his commandments written in our hearts, which are faith in GOD and love of man. A command to observe weekly sabbaths is simply not there. There is absolutely no need for it because it's purpose was to know GOD. Under the new covenant all doing faith and love know GOD through the indwelling holy spirit.

Old covenant sabbath - don't do physical work.

New covenant sabbath - don't do works of the flesh.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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If you were to read my posts more carefully you would see I am talking of GOD's Spiritual Commandments...not Moses'.
Yes, you take them to revert back to the letters (law of Moses), which totally undermines and destroys the law of Christ.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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how about you quit trying to illustrate that you know all about me and think you can read my mind?

I was cutting my teeth on the OT before you heard of it

you insinuate that no one but you and other 'keepers' know anything

that is boring, old and really really self righteous

after reading about how you say you are suffering because you are a Sabbath worshiper, I had about enough

you have no clue what actual suffereing is. there are people dying because they are Christian and you get all ruffled
because we do not believe the Sabbath is more than another day

you do not understand what the Sabbath is all about...God did not start creating again after He rested, so the Sabbath continues every day in our Lord Jesus Christ

do I sound irritated? you know at this point I am

kind of fed up with the whimpering noises about how Sabbath Keepers are the only ones who understand anything, not to mention how rude and tiresome the name calling and false accusations from the creator of this thread are in both this and her other thread

the self congratulatory posts are ridiculous
1Pet 2v23.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Which is the exact opposite of what the bible both explicitly and implicitly states (e.g., 2 Corinthians 3:7), i.e., the law of Christ obsoletes the law of Moses. But sabbatarians can only see the law of Moses. Moses drives, while Christ takes the back seat.
2 Cor. 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

In the Old Covenant there was always a physical "DEATH" required for the atonement of sins. Without this "Death", no sin was forgiven.

The New Covenant provides for the atonement of sins without any more physical death. This Priesthood which performed rituals which included physical "Death"(Which foreshadowed Christ's death) has been replaced by a "changed" Priesthood where physical "death" is no longer required.

The preaching that the changing of this Priesthood also made the Law and Prophets Void is not true, at least according to the Word's of Jesus.

Matt. 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy (make obsolete) the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The new Covenant was the changing of the Priesthood.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Only a Levite Priest could administer this "Death" in the Old Covenant. Jesus became the High Priest, but He was not a Levite. So it was necessary to "change the Law" in order for a Non-Levite to hold the Priesthood.

There is nowhere in the Bible which says Jesus re-wrote God's Laws, re-defined God's Laws, or made God's Laws obsolete.

This is a teaching of man and Beta knows it.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I never mocked anyone who is having trouble with life. You have proven yourself less than honest, again, and willing to use a poor girl having serious problems as a stepping stone to promote your own righteousness, and as a club to beat on those who disagree with your religious doctrines. You can climb on people having a hard time, and use them to exalt yourself if that is your religion.

But I think that is about as low as someone can go, even for you.

I hope this poor girl can see there is hope, but not be convinced to place her hope in religious man. I will pray for her.
" lol , will you now post pictures of starving children and ask for money "

your words. yoke of bondage thread, post # 377.

yes, you liar. that is mockery.

but, that's o.k. I do not find anything about anyone coming to Christ funny, but, in your religion, the idea of one actually being saved by faith and trust in Christ, and not by keeping the Law, I guess that is such a abstract concept. you have to laugh at it.

I guess for some, it is easier to mock truth than to adjust one's thinking and accept it.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Yes, you take them to revert back to the letters (law of Moses), which totally undermines and destroys the law of Christ.
If the Christ is the Word which became Flesh, and as Paul said, all those who came out of Egypt drank of that Rock which was Christ, and as Paul says, referring to the Law this same Word which became Flesh gave to Moses, that the Law is Spiritual?

Then how can Christ's Law given to Moses be different than Christ's Law given to Paul?
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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If the source of those eternal laws is the New Testament, then OK.

If the source of those "eternal commandments" is the obsolete covenant, then its obviously a strange situation.
Of course Jesus and the NT take a different view of the OT Commandments, that is why they are observed differently now....but the basic Commandments have not changed, only how they are now observed. This is something christians don't seem to understand and have done away with the Commands themselves...thrown out the Baby with the bathwater....you know why ? because they 'destroy the whole law (10 Commandments) by RIPPING OUT the SABBTH. If one is broken neither will the others work...hence this dreadful confusion and disagreement in christianity !
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
" lol , will you now post pictures of starving children and ask for money "

your words. yoke of bondage thread, post # 377.

yes, you liar. that is mockery.

but, that's o.k. I do not find anything about anyone coming to Christ funny, but, in your religion, the idea of one actually being saved by faith and trust in Christ, and not by keeping the Law, I guess that is such a abstract concept. you have to laugh at it.

I guess for some, it is easier to mock truth than to adjust one's thinking and accept it.
You used this poor girl to exalt your own righteousness. Very common practice in "many" Mainstream religions, just watch TV. I find this practice detestable and below low.

You should be ashamed of yourself using her as a club to beat those who don't agree with you, but you are not.

Please keep posting, "21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
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Of course Jesus and the NT take a different view of the OT Commandments, that is why they are observed differently now....but the basic Commandments have not changed, only how they are now observed. This is something christians don't seem to understand and have done away with the Commands themselves...thrown out the Baby with the bathwater....you know why ? because they 'destroy the whole law (10 Commandments) by RIPPING OUT the SABBTH. If one is broken neither will the others work...hence this dreadful confusion and disagreement in christianity !
You started with Jesus and the NT and ended your post with 10 commandments and sabbath.

Which is strange, the order is to go from 10 commandments and sabbath to Jesus and the NT :)

Sabbath was a physical image of rest. Jews rested from their physical work in fields and similar, symbolically every week 1 day.

We rest in Christ, all the time. Thats the fulfillment of the physical image of Jewish Sabbath.

If you still try to keep the image, you are implying that the fullfillment in Christ has not come yet, that you still wait for Christ to come and that is where theological problems start. That is why it is seen as so "jewish", so "going back" and so "unchristian".
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,099
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You used this poor girl to exalt your own righteousness. Very common practice in "many" Mainstream religions, just watch TV. I find this practice detestable and below low.

You should be ashamed of yourself using her as a club to beat those who don't agree with you, but you are not.

Please keep posting, "21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
I have never said I am righteous. you see, Christians understand that one can never be good enough to earn salvation, that is why we put our faith and trust in Jesus.

I will keep posting. I want all viewing this to see what honesty and dishonesty look like.

instead of addressing your words, you attack me, and accuse me promoting my rightoeuness , something I never do.

I hold up Christ., not myself'

so, just keep ducking and dodging and refusing to address your own words. all can see this, even if you refuse to.

so, see, when I see lost soul find salvation through faith and trust in Christ alone ( you know, Biblical truth ), that brings me joy.

but, since you have no concept of salvation without the Law being preached, you mock and make light of it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Obedience yes, but to the actual covenant, not to the past and replaced one.

And the actual covenant is spiritual, which you can see also in that Israel, jerusalem and temple are not serving God for 2,000 years and no new prophets came. The old covenant has been fulfilled in Christ and in Church.
there are many covenants in the record of the Bible; usually people count 7 or 8. some are given without condition, as promises. these 4 among them are given with accompanying signs:

  • Noadic covenant, with the sign of the rainbow
  • Abrahamic covenant, with the sign of circumcision
  • Mosaic covenant, with the sign of sabbaths
  • Davidic covenant, with the sign of the birth of Christ

((not meant to be an exhaustive list))

in Jeremiah 31 He speaks of a new covenant that '
will not be like the covenant' He made when He took the people out of Egypt - this is quoted again in Hebrews 8, and it's quite clear which covenant we're talking about, because it's the one He made with the children of Israel when He brought them out: the Mosaic covenant.
it's also quite clear that this new covenant supplants this old covenant - it's explicitly said in scripture that it does exactly this. in Deuteronomy 4:13, the 10 commandments are themselves also explicitly called '
His covenant' - 9 moral commandments and 1 covenant sign to be kept.
the Abrahamic covenant was not the one made obsolete by the new covenant He makes with us, yet the physical sign of the Abrahamic covenant was made obsolete in its physical observance: circumcision of heart, which the Lord Himself, and no other performs, supplants circumcision of the flesh.
seeing that this is so, what does it mean for us about the sign of a covenant we were never made partakers of?

So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.
(Exodus 31:16-17)

there are three reasons given for the sign of the sabbath in the Law and prophets: that He created the heavens and the earth and then ceased, it being complete ((above, e.g.)). that He took them out of Egypt ((Deuteronomy 5:15)), and finally because it is He who sanctifies them ((Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12)).
the sign of the Abrahamic covenant is transmuted from physical to spiritual in Christ, He having overcome the flesh and by His Spirit given us life ((ex. Romans 2:25-29)). the three reasons for the sign of the sabbath given to those under Moses are also connected to things Christ has accomplished:

  1. a new creation ((re: 2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 2:20, Galatians 6:14-16, etc))
  2. being brought out of death into life ((John 5:24, Romans 5:12-19, Ephesians 2, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 1 John 3:14, etc))
  3. having been sanctified in/by/through Him ((John 17:17, Acts 26:18, 1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 6:11, Hebrews 10:14, Philippians 1:6, 1 Peter 1:2, etc))
we need to put all these things together into a picture of God working in us and revealing Himself to mankind through Jesus Christ in order to understand where we stand, how we stand, what is accomplished, what is required, what is commanded and what is wise.
it is not so simple as '
a command was given to a people to keep a sign therefore we must also keep a command' -- if that were the case, then physical circumcision would not be spoken against so harshly in the scripture in Galatians 5:2, where speaking by the Spirit Paul writes that accepting it is tantamount to making Christ of no value. and this command to be physically circumcised was given to Abraham, who is our spiritual father by faith! what then?
we ought to give serious thought to what we are doing and be careful both in our hearts and in the actions of our bodies not to nullify His work.

here is one concise reason keep sabbath: it is good to rest in Him.

make of that what you will. even you false accusers, make of it what you will. i do not care to waste my days correcting slander and vain attacks against my character; it's before God i stand or fall, and He is able to make me stand - i myself am not able and make no such claim nor have need to make such claim, because He is the One who died and is risen and ascended.

my opinion is that observing the sign of the sabbath is worthless unless your soul rests in Him, just as physical circumcision is worthless unless He has circumcised your heart. it is good and right and wise to rest in Him. i don't need a commandment or a tradition or a shadow or a sign or an example -- i need Christ, and if i have Him, or rather He has me, than i have the substance, and all that i need, because He is all in all, all to His own glory and for His own purpose.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
there are many covenants in the record of the Bible; usually people count 7 or 8. some are given without condition, as promises. these 4 among them are given with accompanying signs:

  • Noadic covenant, with the sign of the rainbow
  • Abrahamic covenant, with the sign of circumcision
  • Mosaic covenant, with the sign of sabbaths
  • Davidic covenant, with the sign of the birth of Christ

((not meant to be an exhaustive list))
Yeah, I would add the most important one - Adamic/Eve covenant - that the seed will come and crush satan.

Then I think that Abrahamic covenant was about the same thing, Abraham just got a promise that the seed will come from him.

Mosaic covenant was again about the same thing, just even more specific, preparation for the seed.

--- these three are, IMO triune (three but about one promise, one seed) salvic covenant

I do not think that Noadic covenant is a special covenant or too important for salvation. And I do not know what Davidic covenant is supposed to be :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I haven't seen where anyone in the Bible was blessed for judging or rejecting God's Words
i haven't seen anyone in this forum ever suggesting such a thing,
except only for your constant false witness against others with this and other similar spurious accusations.


may your eyes be made light and may you increase in knowledge of Him
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
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You started with Jesus and the NT and ended your post with 10 commandments and sabbath.

Which is strange, the order is to go from 10 commandments and sabbath to Jesus and the NT :)

Sabbath was a physical image of rest. Jews rested from their physical work in fields and similar, symbolically every week 1 day.

We rest in Christ, all the time. Thats the fulfillment of the physical image of Jewish Sabbath.

If you still try to keep the image, you are implying that the fullfillment in Christ has not come yet, that you still wait for Christ to come and that is where theological problems start. That is why it is seen as so "jewish", so "going back" and so "unchristian".
The 10 Commandments are about LOVE to God and neighbour....this BASIC command has not changed and will not change because it is spiritually observed, Jesus and His original Disciples kept them in the NT. Loving God and neighbour will never go out of fashion....they are from GOD who does not change. Why are you calling it the 'jewish sabbath ? We are to focus on the way GOD wants it observed....not the Jews.
I can see we will never reach agreement speaking from different spirits.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I do not think that Noadic covenant is a special covenant or too important for salvation. And I do not know what Davidic covenant is supposed to be :)
that a son of David will sit on the throne forever :)

your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.
(2 Samuel 7:16)
unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder
(Isaiah 9:6)
He called out, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!"
(Luke 18:38)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
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that a son of David will sit on the throne forever :)

your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.
(2 Samuel 7:16)
unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder
(Isaiah 9:6)
He called out, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!"
(Luke 18:38)
So, basically, that the seed will not only save, but also rule? Is this what you mean by this covenant?