This Is Not Your Daddy's Gog and Magog

[JesusIsAll]

Alright, especially you legends in your own minds of Bible knowledge, time to put up, or...

We have best selling books these days, mainstream eschatology that places the Gog and Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39 before the tribulation, half way through the tribulation, and the same as Armageddon. Then answer this:

Gog's hoard comes up against Israel, Ezekiel 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates. Pre-tribulation, is Israel dwelling in peace and safety for the foreseeable future? If it's Armageddon, what peace and safety has Israel had, persecuted to shreds by Antichrist and Satan in the Great Tribulation?

After this war, Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel... 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. Mid-tribulation, that is this war after a peace deal with Antichrist as some are touting, the blasphemy, profaning, of the Lord's name is just beginning, with Antichrist in the Great Tribulation, up until Armageddon!

And, of course, we have the weapons burning like wood, of rifles, personnel carriers, tanks? Didn't know we needed "CAUTION: FLAMMABLE" tags on metal.

I see much parroting of the likes of Bill Salus, who also created a "Psalm 83 war" not in Psalm 83 scripture, a Muslim Antichrist the flavor-of-the-month with ISIS emerging, and one guarantee: people in most all eras have stuffed Bible prophecy into the news of their day, and all been wrong, thus far.

Time to pause on the debate whether you have to be a little bit country and a little bit rock and rock, that is, law versus grace, set aside baptismal shower caps, and show, especially you who are sure you don't have one foot in hell like everybody who disagrees with you, what you really know about the Bible. Is that not fair?

(Forgive me for an attitude the glass is half full, that this thread will be very short on pages, that is, answers... and, please, no copy and pastes from best selling book websites, books based on ignoring a lot of verses.)

 

[crossnote]

I've never seen a thread I couldn't resist. Goggy after the Millennium?

 

[JesusIsAll]

I've never seen a thread I couldn't resist. Goggy after the Millennium?

It is the ONLY explanation that deals with both peace and safety, as well as the weapons issue! But it seems to have its problems, then again, not the huge warts of the Christian pop culture explanations.

(I'm grogged in Gog! We should maybe not even talk about animal sacrifice in Ezekiel's temple...)

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Alright, especially you legends in your own minds of Bible knowledge, time to put up, or...

We have best selling books these days, mainstream eschatology that places the Gog and Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39 before the tribulation, half way through the tribulation, and the same as Armageddon. Then answer this:

Gog's hoard comes up against Israel, Ezekiel 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates. Pre-tribulation, is Israel dwelling in peace and safety for the foreseeable future? If it's Armageddon, what peace and safety has Israel had, persecuted to shreds by Antichrist and Satan in the Great Tribulation?

After this war, Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel... 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. Mid-tribulation, that is this war after a peace deal with Antichrist as some are touting, the blasphemy, profaning, of the Lord's name is just beginning, with Antichrist in the Great Tribulation, up until Armageddon!

And, of course, we have the weapons burning like wood, of rifles, personnel carriers, tanks? Didn't know we needed "CAUTION: FLAMMABLE" tags on metal.

I see much parroting of the likes of Bill Salus, who also created a "Psalm 83 war" not in Psalm 83 scripture, a Muslim Antichrist the flavor-of-the-month with ISIS emerging, and one guarantee: people in most all eras have stuffed Bible prophecy into the news of their day, and all been wrong, thus far.

Time to pause on the debate whether you have to be a little bit country and a little bit rock and rock, that is, law versus grace, set aside baptismal shower caps, and show, especially you who are sure you don't have one foot in hell like everybody who disagrees with you, what you really know about the Bible. Is that not fair?

(Forgive me for an attitude the glass is half full, that this thread will be very short on pages, that is, answers... and, please, no copy and pastes from best selling book websites, books based on ignoring a lot of verses.)

Huh?.......LOLZ!
Hey brother JesusIsAll, if I can't cut and paste how am I suppose to answer a question like thus?

 

[Timeline]

I am a glass is full kind of guy - even when the glass is empty. Because if there was no air in the top of the glass, you wouldn't even be able to drink it!!!

 

[JesusIsAll]

Huh?.......LOLZ!
Hey brother JesusIsAll, if I can't cut and paste how am I suppose to answer a question like thus?

It was just copying and pasting some website, touting a pet theory of some sensational Christian book I was mentioning, not prohibiting copy and paste, in principle. You see, the OP is about those theories being dubious, for reasons stated. So, a rehash of this shows nothing, if it doesn't overcome specific objections in the OP. In addition, a lot of these long, bloviating posts you see, swipes from websites where the authors can't spell exegesis, rarely address by precise use of scripture, long winded because somebody is trying to force the square peg into a round hole, actually to overcome Bible meanings. People with knowledge have their own ideas they can briefly comment on, like, "It can't be the end of the millennium, because it would break the chronology of Ezekiel," which I could then gleefully shoot down and have a little fun around here, for a change.

But, bottom line? When did anybody ever pay attention to requests like not to cut and paste Bill Salus' history, since inventing new wars to hope for? At the outset, I expected nothing, was fully prepared for War and Peace, with the word Gog slipped in, or whether water baptism would help Gog, or whether Gog should be silent in church. So, it's a free country, just try to have a little respect for CC storage space. I mean, if we can't do truth, at least we could stop devouring hard drives.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I am a glass is full kind of guy - even when the glass is empty. Because if there was no air in the top of the glass, you wouldn't even be able to drink it!!!

Well, I think I know what you mean. The glass is full, but with no air at the top if it's really full, but that makes you a glass full kind of guy, nonetheless, which is why the full glass can also be empty, because you really like to drink air?

I can tell you've been hanging out in the "Who Killed Goliath?" thread. Just forget Gog for now...

 

[Agricola]

Ok First I should be in bed, so I will try to make this brief.

First of all, there will only be 1 battle after the 1000 year rule, Armageddon.

There is an issue that the vast majority of Jews today do not beleive in God, therefore we have a slight problem, as Israel needs to be a nation of beleivers in order to accept "The Messiah" or in other words the anti-christ claiming to be the Messiah.

FOr this to happen there has to be a sudden change of everyones belief, so what better way to do that than to have a war which is won supernaturally, people will see the armies being swallowed up and destroyed instantly without a shot being fired by the IDF.

This will be the Gog MAgog war. But why is this a supernatural victory and why is God getting directly invovled in this one? Answer is simple and a good study to do, Gog could well be Satan, if Satan is moving physically and directly on Israel, then of course God will put a stop to that!

Look into the locust thing, read description of them, not like normal locust and the original Strongs numbering, that indicates a different usage around that as well, then we see that Satan and locusts come up a few more times in reference to battle, but I am sure you can find all that out yourself, as for me I cant keep eyes open anymore.!

 

[JesusIsAll]

Ok First I should be in bed, so I will try to make this brief.

First of all, there will only be 1 battle after the 1000 year rule, Armageddon.

There is an issue that the vast majority of Jews today do not beleive in God, therefore we have a slight problem, as Israel needs to be a nation of beleivers in order to accept "The Messiah" or in other words the anti-christ claiming to be the Messiah.

FOr this to happen there has to be a sudden change of everyones belief, so what better way to do that than to have a war which is won supernaturally, people will see the armies being swallowed up and destroyed instantly without a shot being fired by the IDF.

This will be the Gog MAgog war. But why is this a supernatural victory and why is God getting directly invovled in this one? Answer is simple and a good study to do, Gog could well be Satan, if Satan is moving physically and directly on Israel, then of course God will put a stop to that!

Look into the locust thing, read description of them, not like normal locust and the original Strongs numbering, that indicates a different usage around that as well, then we see that Satan and locusts come up a few more times in reference to battle, but I am sure you can find all that out yourself, as for me I cant keep eyes open anymore.!

Now, Armageddon is a war with the beast in Revelation 16, pre-millennium, therefore. And Gog is the leader, in Ezekiel he's buried with his hoards, is not Satan incarnate. In Revelation, Satan seduces and rounds up the troops after the millennium, but the war through Gog and company, real people. God gets involved for His fury over Gog and Magog coming against Israel, I would think this the case, regardless why they came around to pillage Israel? Isn't evil behind all such things? Would God find it okay, as long as Satan didn't put this Mongol hoard up to it?

 

[Timeline]

Well, I think I know what you mean. The glass is full, but with no air at the top if it's really full, but that makes you a glass full kind of guy, nonetheless, which is why the full glass can also be empty, because you really like to drink air?

I can tell you've been hanging out in the "Who Killed Goliath?" thread. Just forget Gog for now...

If the glass is half full of water, then the other half of the glass is air. I don't like to drink air, but if there wasn't any air, what good would the water be to me? So the glass is full - half water/half air (and we should all be truly thankful for the air above the water). I can make it for quite awhile without water, but the air is a constant necessity!

I have made this argument before, but I haven't had anyone appreciate it yet. I don't really know why. The benefits of having the air are very obvious to me.

As for Gog, I don't really have any incites. I do believe that all (or at least most) of prophecy has already been fulfilled, but I also realize that my belief causes others to get very frustrated/irritated/angry at me. That is not my intention at all and, if I am wrong, would be glad to be corrected.

 

[JesusIsAll]

If the glass is half full of water, then the other half of the glass is air. I don't like to drink air, but if there wasn't any air, what good would the water be to me? So the glass is full - half water/half air (and we should all be truly thankful for the air above the water). I can make it for quite awhile without water, but the air is a constant necessity!

I have made this argument before, but I haven't had anyone appreciate it yet. I don't really know why. The benefits of having the air are very obvious to me.

As for Gog, I don't really have any incites. I do believe that all (or at least most) of prophecy has already been fulfilled, but I also realize that my belief causes others to get very frustrated/irritated/angry at me. That is not my intention at all and, if I am wrong, would be glad to be corrected.

Don't know why you're not appreciated. Would think your family would appreciate your half air in the glass viewpoint, which is certainly an economical one.

You don't seem a get-angry-at sort of person. I won't get angry at you, as about the worst I can get is mildly irritated, nothing much online to get angry over, this though having no understanding your view of Gog and Magog as past. I would merely ask, then, when did this battle occur, leaving God's name honored all over the planet and Israel in a state of Holy Spirit redemption, with God present? Granted, I don't catch the evening news very often.

Anyway, I can have compassion on those suffering from Preterismagoria. By the way, love your avatar, the tomb with the stone rolled away. Hallelujah, He is risen!

 

[dcontroversal]

Daniel 12 breaks it down to 1335 days and is as follows

30 days of peace (1st seal)
1260 days of tribulation (2nd seal thru 7th trump)
45 days of wrath (bowls of God's wrath)

Gog gets hooks put into it's jaws and is pulled into a conflict with Israel that the Muslims will not be able to win (Gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle) so that God can pour out his wrath upon them..note that Gog is coming back from somewhere.....the destruction of the WEST!

Post tribulation/pre-wrath battle!

 

[Agricola]

Well as with all prophecy we will know it when it happens.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Daniel 12 breaks it down to 1335 days and is as follows

30 days of peace (1st seal)
1260 days of tribulation (2nd seal thru 7th trump)
45 days of wrath (bowls of God's wrath)

Gog gets hooks put into it's jaws and is pulled into a conflict with Israel that the Muslims will not be able to win (Gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle) so that God can pour out his wrath upon them..note that Gog is coming back from somewhere.....the destruction of the WEST!

Post tribulation/pre-wrath battle!

As in the OP, what tribulation era scenario begins with Israel safe, comfortably at rest, unconcerned, Gog with Magog is sprung on them, the result of that war is God's name no longer profaned, Israel with the Holy Spirit poured on them and in the presence of God. Israel safe now? Profaning God will end mid-tribulation? Israel safe and unconcerned, before the end of the Great Tribulation? Somebody, please make all the TV talking heads and books, the pop culture eschatology everybody believes, actually fit with all the verses of Ezekiel 39. Is this too much to ask?

 

[JesusIsAll]

Well as with all prophecy we will know it when it happens.

Now, that's true. Congratulations! LOL!

 

[JesusIsAll]

Daniel 12 breaks it down to 1335 days and is as follows

Oh! And where is Gog and Magog in Daniel, please?

 

[Straightshot]

For the Forum

Some prophecies are more easily understood that this one .... but all prophecy is given for the understanding

Here is what you need to connect the dots related to Satan, his beast [Abaddon/Apollyon], and the human little horn [a king of the northern Middle East] of Daniel's visions:

Satan is the one [Ezekiel 38:17] who stands behind his beast and the little horn

The symbolic term "gog" is used by the Lord to identify Satan as the one who leads nations against the Lord and Israel

The symbolic term "magog" is used to define all of the nations [populations] involved [magog, mesheck, and tubal happened to be the first post flood settlements in northwestern Mesopotamia [apparently Satan's preferred nesting].... and this is the "land" [the region] north of Israel where Ezekiel is to set his face against .... it is also where Satan has chosen to set a foothold both then, during, and at the end of this present age related to the 70th week decreed for Israel .... he is the head angelic "prince" of the region specified

Satan has been the one standing behind all of the human kings of the Middle Eastern kingdoms [dominions] .... the 7 kingdoms of the visions of the prophets .... the triad kingdom of magog, mesheck, and tubal; the Assyrian Empire; the neo-Babylon Empire; the medo/Persian and greater Persian Empire; the Syrio/Babylonian Seleucid Empire; and after much time passing, the smaller kingdom of the little horn; and the expansion of the same including 10 other kings

The first 5 are historical today .... the next 2 will appear at the time appointed during the 70th week decreed

Satan instigates two future human rebellions against the Lord and Israel in the prophetic visions

The first is the the attack upon are returned remnant Israel's scattering at the middle of the 70th week [2520 days + 30 days] still pending for Israel in this present age [there is nothing recorded in the prophet's visions of any earthly events between the ending of the 69th week decreed .... and the beginning of the 70th]

Satan's [gog's] invasion and short lived occupation of 42 months [1260 days] will terminate at the end of the 42 months and his entire ambition will fail ..... his beast will be sent o the Lord's lake of fire, and the human little horn and his followers will become bird food in the Lord's battle of Armageddon during the next 30 days

.... and Satan [gog] will be imprisoned in the abyss so that he cannot deceive the mortal nations [magog] of the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth for 1000 years

At the ending of the 1000 years the Lord will allow for Satan to muster another human rebellion against Himself and Israel

.... that is "gog" and "magog" .... again the Lord uses the same terms for the last satanically driven rebellion against Him

And know this .... the one that people refer to as the "antichrist" is not human, but another fallen angel like Satan .... Satan uses this diabolical angel king of the abyss angels to rule over the 7 kingdoms of the Middle East

This one called Abaddon/Apollyon is described here [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

Satan and Abaddon are not the same entities .... Abaddon will completely possess the human little horn, a king of the northern Middle East ... and Satan is their "god" as he sees the relationship [Daniel 11:38-39]

Ezekiel's vision of 38; 39; has two parts .... Satan's [gog's] invasion of Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed .... and the ensuing battle of Armageddon 42 months [1260 days] later

The Lord addresses Satan only in the vision, and descriptions his beast and the little horn must be derived from the further revelations of Daniel, Micah, and Revelation

There are a few different interpretations of these things around today, but none will stand the testing of the prophetic scriptures [only pre-millennial exegesis can be used to interpret the prophetic visions correctly .... the others do not work, and the preterist view fails miserably and should never be entertained]

The peoples of the Middle East are essentially Muslim today and it is these who will follow the human little horn of Daniel's visions, who will in turn be controlled by Satan and his beast [2 Thessalonians 2:8-12]

All of this will lead to Ezekiel's view of Armageddon which is described further in Revelation .... they are the same

Then the Lord will finish of the beast, little horn, and His followers [whom I consider to be the Islamic populations of today's Middle East], and Satan will be side tracked for 1000 years

When he is released from the abyss he will take his last shot and will have to muster a following from the mortal nations that will exist during the the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth

And notice the Lord's reaction to put the rebellion down .... described far different than His response at Armageddon 1000 earlier

There are only two significant battles involving Israel and the tiny nation's enemies that are set out in the prophetic scriptures .... the war of Armageddon and the later confrontation between the Lord and Satan at the end of His coming Millennial kingdom

However there are indications of other warfare which will principally involve the release of Abaddon and the rising of the human little horn .... this coming king will have to conquer his opposition from others in the Middle East and from other nations outside of the same who will attempt to stop him from his ambition to rule over the earth [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 11:36-45; 12:7]

So there will be wars and rumors of wars and much upheaval upon the earth during the period of the coming 70th week decreed for Israel [Psalms 2; Jeremiah 30; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 14; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Revelation 6:12-17; 8:6-12; 9; 12; 13; 17:16-18] .... all leading up to the battle of Armageddon

Any of the same before the 70th week begins are not recorded in any prophet's vision and should not be speculated and inserted ..... only the more sure word of the Lord's prophets can be relied upon for truth

Many have speculated over the last 2000 years and have done this by inserting their on proprietary dogmas that support their various religions movements .... and much of this behavior has caused the fracturing and resulting divisional persuasions of the Lord's church

Bible prophecy can and has been grossly abused for nefarious purposes by ignoring the fact that the Lord has simply revealed nothing where the traditions and doctrines of men have been hatched .... He only evaluates this by His message to the "church" in Revelation 2; 3] .... but nothing else during the period of the time lapse between the ending of 69th and beginning 70th week decreed for Israel [not for the "church"]

The Gentile "church' has gone off course and has created a culture of western styled "Christianity" based upon proprietary replacement theology .... the Bible prophets' reflect a focused national Israel centered view in the Middle East that needs to be understood

 

[JesusIsAll]

All of this will lead to Ezekiel's view of Armageddon which is described further in Revelation .... they are the same

So, Israel is enjoying safety and security, prior to Armageddon? Ooookay. (And I know, as you said elsewhere and rebuked me for having none of your omniscience of all things, this for my disagreeing that Gog is Satan, this though Gog is dead and buried with his hoards in Ezekiel. Far be it from me to use the Bible as clear proof.)

A shorter post would have sufficed, of the remainder that doesn't answer to the issues of the OP, at all.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[JesusLives]

Did someone say serving Egg Nog before it's all gone? Must be my hearing is going......Oh that's right I read it no hearing involved....it's a Blond thing..... Must have gotten mixed up with all the Holidays approaching....my bad...

As far as when what battle takes place I guess we're going to find out. Hopefully in our life time so we can go home where we belong.....

 

[tourist]

Did someone say serving Egg Nog before it's all gone? Must be my hearing is going......Oh that's right I read it no hearing involved....it's a Blond thing..... Must have gotten mixed up with all the Holidays approaching....my bad...

As far as when what battle takes place I guess we're going to find out. Hopefully in our life time so we can go home where we belong.....

Now, actually I love egg nog and I had a glass last night. I don't drink anymore so there was no rum in it but there was a hint of nutmeg. This was not my daddy's egg nog 'cause he's dead. He would've splashed a shot of rum in his.