Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[newbirth]

One who is baptized professes to have a good conscience toward God, with his sins forgiven. If that is not true, he has no right to be baptized and baptism is a lie and an empty pretense. Baptism is only for saved people, the answer of a conscience that is already cleansed and forgiven.

1 Peter 3:21 WEB, NLT

(a) "This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, (b) but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."​

One is saved or set apart to answer the call in making a public declaration that one's conscience has been already cleaned by God. It is a public testimony of what God has done for you.

It doesn't make any sense to say that you have been saved from being smelly or dirty. What does physically being cleansed have to do with anything spiritual?

let us forget your opinoin and deal with the scripture...does it say the flood is s picture of baptism which now saves you..???
not by removing dirt from the body....if it does not say that ...show where it does...because it seems pretty clear to me...i you choose not to change your belie that is up to you...but let God be true....respect the word...
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-21New Living Translation (NLT)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from[SUP][b][/SUP] a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[BradC]

In other words, one is saved, or set apart so as to make a pledge or public declaration that one's conscience has been cleansed already because their sins have been forgiven when they repented and accepted the Lord as His Savior.

Confession is extremely important to you and you would not want to disobey God according to the scriptures. So tell us the last time you confessed sin or fault (paraptoma) in your life, that would lead unto death, and what that sin or fault actually was, based upon James 5:16, where we are instructed to confess our faults (paraptoma) to one another. Do you have the obedience for such a thing?

 

[Jason0047]

Now, if some folks believe that a Christian has to be holy, and I said that they do not beleive that, then I apologize. But you have to understand that if you believe in a doctrine that teaches that you can still be saved despite whether or not you sin, then that is a license (or pardon) to sin (Whether you want to believe that or not). It's not morally right. Good guys always strive to do what is good and God would never give a believer a free pass in them sinning. God is Holy and He hates sin.

 

[Jason0047]

Confession is extremely important to you and you would not want to disobey God according to the scriptures. So tell us the last time you confessed sin or fault (paraptoma) in your life, that would lead unto death, and what that sin or fault actually was, based upon James 5:16, where we are instructed to confess our faults (paraptoma) to one another. Do you have the obedience for such a thing?

I don't discuss intimate details of my personal life online. If I say to you that I am living like a saint, you will think I am trying to boast. If I say that I sinned five seconds ago, then you will say that I need to get closer to God. Either way, your intent is not to find the truth on this matter but it is to attack me or throw mud. For surely you can ask the question in a third person way without making it personal. I only share what I feel God wants me to share. Certain stories or things God has done for me. But I will say that I do confess of my sins as per 1 John 1:9 (Whereby I am cleansed). That is all you need to know. However, if you were my close brother, I would share such a thing. Why? Because I trust him and he cares for me and desires my best interest (Not wanting me to be hurt but to draw close to God and in closer fellowship with His people).

 

[newbirth]

In other words, one is saved, or set apart so as to make a pledge or public declaration that one's conscience has been cleansed already because their sins have been forgiven when they repented and accepted the Lord as His Savior.

Do you mean here...but it does not align with with what you say...you change the scripture from repent and be baptised...to repent and accept...
[h=1]Acts 2:38-39King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Jason0047]

Do you mean here...but it does not align with with what you say...you change the scripture from repent and be baptised...to repent and accept...
Acts 2:38-39King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Look, I cannot unlearn what was taught to me by the Spirit; And this is not a baptism thread, my friend. I was willing to indulge you a little on this topic thinking it might help you, but if you are not willing to hear the Scriptures and points I have presented, well, then we should move on. For I am not interestted in endless debate on baptism. That is not what this thread is about.

 

[Jason0047]

Again, I want to say that if I have appeared to have accused anyone falsely here I want to say I am sorry. It is not my intention to overstep the line in what you do or don't do. I am merely in hatred over what I believe is a false doctrine that promotes a license of immorality. You may not like me for saying that, but please do not take it personal. It does not mean I do not love you and or care for you. In fact, I am commanded by God to love and forgive everyone; Including my enemies.

For you have to understand that I am strongly against that which is evil and or bad behavior. Evil should never be tolerated or condoned under any circumstance. That is what I want folks to understand.

Anyways, may God bless you all.
And may His love fill you this fine day.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

#1. They crept in unaware.

Notice that I highlighted that certain men had crept in unawares in Jude. In 2 Peter 2 we see that they feast with us. Meaning, they are hidden believers amongst us (Who appear to believe in many ways like us but are not like us). If they denies the Lord openly, they would be detected by the true believer.

Nope. It means that unbelievers [UNGODLY MEN] have crept in unawares, sitting in the congregation of the righteous. These type of people know scripture enough to make themselves LOOK and SOUND religious. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.

#2. They have denied the Lord that bought them.

OSAS proponents that think they can sin and still be saved deny the Lord's words and teachings in the gospels. Jesus said repent. But many of them do not believe that is necessary. They are denying the Lord that bought them. They are denying the Lord as He is described in the Scriptures (And don't even know it). Note: This is not all OSAS proponents. Only those OSAS proponents who think they can sin and still be saved.

They deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ, denying the Lord that bought them. Believers do not do that. You have a very wrong opinion of people who are secure in their salvation. They know that they are partakers of the divine nature, i.e. born again of the Spirit and that they are sealed with that holy Spirit until the day of redemption. They do not condone sin, they do not LIVE in sin. We are made righteous not by what we do but because of what Christ has done. We believe that "born again" means just that - born of the Spirit - nothing can undo that birth. It is a BIRTH, a new creation - sin does not touch that and can not corrupt that new creation. It is created in the image of him [God] that created him - Spirit - and it is incorruptible.

#3. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray like Balaam.

Balaam was in favor with God for a brief time, but he forsaken the right way and had gone astray. He loved unrighteousness. This is the OSAS proponent who does not want to give up their lifestyle of sin. They love unrighteousness. Granted, I am not talking about every OSAS proponent. OSAS Lite proponents believe you need to live holy or you never knew the Lord to begin with. But there are many OSAS proponents who think they can sin and still be saved that used to believe the correct way (Whereby at one time they thought they had to confess their sins and forsake them so as to be saved).

First off, Balaam practiced divination and that is why Balak, King of the Moabites sent with the messengers a fee for divination for Balaam. The angel of the LORD tried to stop Balaam three times on the way to the Moabites but Balaam didn't "see" him, his donkey did, he beat his donkey 3 times . . Balaam admitted that he had sinned by not realizing the angel of the LORD was standing in the road trying to oppose him. But God in all his wisdom and despite Balaam himself . God used Balaam to accomplish his purposes, putting His Spirit UPON Balaam and Balaam prophesied blessing for Israel and not cursing as Balak wanted him to. Anyway in practicing divination, which is an abomination unto the LORD, Balaam was in error to begin with.

Besides, even if you think this group of false teachers was classified as being different because they denied the Lord, don't you think having a license for immorality and or not ceasing from sin should be something that we as believers should be on the look out for? In other words, it doesn't make sense that false teachers have this quality in addtion to true believers.

A believer is one who has confessed Jesus as Lord . . . one who believes in the only begotten Son of God . . . not one who denies the Lord. One who denies the Lord Jesus Christ is one who does not believe in the only begotten Son of God and is condemned already. One has no part with God and doesn't even have the Spirit of God dwelling in them and the other confesses Jesus as Lord and is born again - a partaker of the divine nature. You honestly do not see a difference?

 

[DiscipleDave]

Again, I want to say that if I have appeared to have accused anyone falsely here I want to say I am sorry. It is not my intention to overstep the line in what you do or don't do. I am merely in hatred over what I believe is a false doctrine that promotes a license of immorality. You may not like me for saying that, but please do not take it personal. It does not mean I do not love you and or care for you. In fact, I am commanded by God to love and forgive everyone; Including my enemies.

For you have to understand that I am strongly against that which is evil and or bad behavior. Evil should never be tolerated or condoned under any circumstance. That is what I want folks to understand.

Anyways, may God bless you all.
And may His love fill you this fine day.

This is what this generation seriously lacks, to abhor sin, to hate sin, to fight sin with every fiber in their body. No not this generation. This generation wants to freely sin and still think they are Heaven bound and will hold on to ANY doctrine which teaches the same. OSAS is such a document that teaches you can't possibly lose your Salvation, therefore doesn't matter what you do you still can't lose it. This is such doctrine that those who love to live in sin and want to still go to Heaven will hold on to with dear life, so as to not believe the Truth and have to give up their sinning which they much enjoy doing. We know they enjoy doing it, because they do not cease from doing, but willingly continue to live in sins, holding on for dear life the doctrine of OSAS. there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth on Judgment Day. it is no wander to me, that the Day Every eye shall see Him returning and He gathers up the few Saints that that day every kindred of the Earth will wail (rev 1:7)And also it is said about that day that all the tribes of the Earth will mourn (Matt 24:30) Billions of people when they see Christ come and are not taken up with him but left behind will wail and mourn and weep because they believed in a false doctrine that Once you are Saved, you can't possibly become UNSAVED. They are wrong, and the sad Truth of it, you can tell them over and over again that they are wrong, but they will not realize it until that day when they are not taken up with Him, Those who believe OSAS can't possibly believe what the Bible teaches, because it does not teach that at all.
If you start hating sin right now, and fight it with everything in your power (look to Him for the help, He will help you) then maybe there is hope for you yet. God hates sin, so should you. i believe hating sin is the first step to overcome that sin.

^i^

 

[newbirth]

Look, I cannot unlearn what was taught to me by the Spirit; And this is not a baptism thread, my friend. I was willing to indulge you a little on this topic thinking it might help you, but if you are not willing to hear the Scriptures and points I have presented, well, then we should move on. For I am not interestted in endless debate on baptism. That is not what this thread is about.

OK .....so the spirit is teaching you false doctrine....this is a thread about fellowship and being saved...baptism doth now save us...if baptism doth not save you ....how do you get to talk about fellowship???

 

[Jason0047]

OK .....so the spirit is teaching you false doctrine....this is a thread about fellowship and being saved...baptism doth now save us...if baptism doth not save you ....how do you get to talk about fellowship???

I will pray for you.

 

[Jason0047]

This is what this generation seriously lacks, to abhor sin, to hate sin, to fight sin with every fiber in their body. No not this generation. This generation wants to freely sin and still think they are Heaven bound and will hold on to ANY doctrine which teaches the same. OSAS is such a document that teaches you can't possibly lose your Salvation, therefore doesn't matter what you do you still can't lose it. This is such doctrine that those who love to live in sin and want to still go to Heaven will hold on to with dear life, so as to not believe the Truth and have to give up their sinning which they much enjoy doing. We know they enjoy doing it, because they do not cease from doing, but willingly continue to live in sins, holding on for dear life the doctrine of OSAS. there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth on Judgment Day. it is no wander to me, that the Day Every eye shall see Him returning and He gathers up the few Saints that that day every kindred of the Earth will wail (rev 1:7)And also it is said about that day that all the tribes of the Earth will mourn (Matt 24:30) Billions of people when they see Christ come and are not taken up with him but left behind will wail and mourn and weep because they believed in a false doctrine that Once you are Saved, you can't possibly become UNSAVED. They are wrong, and the sad Truth of it, you can tell them over and over again that they are wrong, but they will not realize it until that day when they are not taken up with Him, Those who believe OSAS can't possibly believe what the Bible teaches, because it does not teach that at all.
If you start hating sin right now, and fight it with everything in your power (look to Him for the help, He will help you) then maybe there is hope for you yet. God hates sin, so should you. i believe hating sin is the first step to overcome that sin.

^i^

Indeed, very true.

Romans 12:9
"Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good."

 

[Jason0047]

Nope. It means that unbelievers [UNGODLY MEN] have crept in unawares, sitting in the congregation of the righteous. These type of people know scripture enough to make themselves LOOK and SOUND religious. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.

They deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ, denying the Lord that bought them. Believers do not do that. You have a very wrong opinion of people who are secure in their salvation. They know that they are partakers of the divine nature, i.e. born again of the Spirit and that they are sealed with that holy Spirit until the day of redemption. They do not condone sin, they do not LIVE in sin. We are made righteous not by what we do but because of what Christ has done. We believe that "born again" means just that - born of the Spirit - nothing can undo that birth. It is a BIRTH, a new creation - sin does not touch that and can not corrupt that new creation. It is created in the image of him [God] that created him - Spirit - and it is incorruptible.

First off, Balaam practiced divination and that is why Balak, King of the Moabites sent with the messengers a fee for divination for Balaam. The angel of the LORD tried to stop Balaam three times on the way to the Moabites but Balaam didn't "see" him, his donkey did, he beat his donkey 3 times . . Balaam admitted that he had sinned by not realizing the angel of the LORD was standing in the road trying to oppose him. But God in all his wisdom and despite Balaam himself . God used Balaam to accomplish his purposes, putting His Spirit UPON Balaam and Balaam prophesied blessing for Israel and not cursing as Balak wanted him to. Anyway in practicing divination, which is an abomination unto the LORD, Balaam was in error to begin with.

A believer is one who has confessed Jesus as Lord . . . one who believes in the only begotten Son of God . . . not one who denies the Lord. One who denies the Lord Jesus Christ is one who does not believe in the only begotten Son of God and is condemned already. One has no part with God and doesn't even have the Spirit of God dwelling in them and the other confesses Jesus as Lord and is born again - a partaker of the divine nature. You honestly do not see a difference?

No. Every believer will know there will be unbelievers among them in a congregation who is looking to be saved even if they appear to be singing and praising God. They have crept in unaware and they feed themselves with them suggests a more intimate friendship that they are actual brethren. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. Wolves in sheep's clothing appear to be like a sheep and can deceive because they appear like sheep. A person who just sits in the congregation is not wearing a sheep outfit. It is in their behavior and what they say and believe that makes them appear as sheep (when they are not).

Titus 1:16 sums it up perfectly.

Titus 1:16
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

In Numbers 22, the children of Israel are wandering through the desert, and have just beaten up, killed, and plundered the Amorites. Balak, the king of Moab, has just seen all of this, and he begins considering what might happen to them! Worried that his people might be next in line for defeat, Balak tries to get some “insurance” by getting God's prophet, Balaam, on their side. “So he sent messengers to Balaam saying, `Behold a people came out of Egypt, and they are living opposite me. Please come and curse this people for me; perhaps l may be able to defeat them and drive them out of the land. For l know that he whom you bless is blessed and he whom you curse is cursed.'”

Apparently Balaam had established a great reputation! If he said a person was blessed, they were really blessed - and if he said they were cursed, it was all over for them! After all, who would hire a guy to come and curse their enemies if they didn't think it was going to work? Now, we don't know the history of Balaam, but we do know that God speaks to him in this story, and He does it as if He's familiar with speaking to him. Balaam knew the Lord, and everybody knew that he did.

So Balak sent some of his leaders to go see Balaam, and to bring him “fees of divination.” “And they came to Balaam and repeated Balak's words to him. And he said to them, `Spend the night here, and I will bring word back to you as the Lord may speak to me.' Then God came to Balaam and said, `who are these men with you?' And Balaam said, `Balak the king of Moab has sent word to me, “Behold, there is a people who came out of Egypt; now come, curse them for me; perhaps I may be able to fight against them, and drive them out.” And God said to Balaam, `Do not go with them; you shall not curse the people; for they are blessed.'”

That's it. Do not go with them. You can't get any clearer than that! Now, God doesn't always tell you why. He might just say “No.” But apparently Balaam had such a good relationship with God that He even told himwhy he wasn't supposed to go. “You shall not curse the people; for they are blessed.”

“So Balaam said to Balak's leaders, `Go back to your land, for the Lord has refused to let me go with you.' And they went to Balak, and said, `Balaam refused to come with us.' Then Balak again sent leaders, more numerous and more distinguished than the former. And they came to Balaam and said to him, `Thus says Balak, “Let nothing, I beg you, hinder you from coming to me, for I will indeed honor you richly. Please come then, curse this people for me.”'” Let's take a close look at Balaam's answer in verse 13. A bunch of guys came and said to him, “We want you to come and curse these people.” But when Balaam asked God, He said, “No. These people are blessed, and I don't want you to hurt them.” The obvious thing for Balaam to have told the messengers would have been, “I can't curse these people because God said they are blessed.”

But what did Balaam say to the messengers? “Go back to your land, for the Lord has refused to let me go with you.” What does that mean? He wishes he could go, but “God won't let him.” Remember those “fees of divination”? Balaam got paid for his work. There wasn't anything strange about that in those days - it was customary to bring a gift when you sought the word of God from a prophet. Balaam knew there was some big money to be made, and what he was really saying was, “I'd like to go, but I can't.”


Source Used For the Portion of What was Written on Balaam:
Last Days Ministries : Getting What You Want From God (The Error Of Balaam)
(Please note that I merely agree with this portion of the article I quoted. I do not agree with everything they teach or say - Thank you, and may God bless you).

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, Balaam's thoughts of wanting to do the wrong thing is where he starts to go downhill. It is not before that point. Read Numbers 22. It is said that Balaam has the Spirit of God. Unbelievers, or those who deny the Lord, or false prophets do not have the Spirit of God.

 

[Radius]

OSAS is such a document that teaches you can't possibly lose your Salvation, therefore doesn't matter what you do you still can't lose it.
^i^

HUGE FAIL.
OSAS does NOT advocate free sinning "so that grace may increase". And ANY sin, yes, can be forgiven. No matter how big or small.

We advocate all should abstain from sin as much as humanly possible. But should (and when (it is inevitable)) we sin, we should seek forgiveness and God is Just and will forgive us.

Why people take away from the strength and power of the cross in unfathomable to me.

 

[newbirth]

I will pray for you.

I would rather you answer the question....

Originally Posted by newbirth

OK .....so the spirit is teaching you false doctrine....this is a thread about fellowship and being saved...baptism doth now save us...if baptism doth not save you ....how do you get to talk about fellowship???

 

[BradC]

I don't discuss intimate details of my personal life online. If I say to you that I am living like a saint, you will think I am trying to boast. If I say that I sinned five seconds ago, then you will say that I need to get closer to God. Either way, your intent is not to find the truth on this matter but it is to attack me or throw mud. For surely you can ask the question in a third person way without making it personal. I only share what I feel God wants me to share. Certain stories or things God has done for me. But I will say that I do confess of my sins as per 1 John 1:9 (Whereby I am cleansed). That is all you need to know. However, if you were my close brother, I would share such a thing. Why? Because I trust him and he cares for me and desires my best interest (Not wanting me to be hurt but to draw close to God and in closer fellowship with His people).

You don't have to name anything online, but have you ever been involved with any sin that leads to death since you believed upon Christ for the remission of sin and for salvation? Since you confessed that sin to God did you repeat it again or more than once? Why are you so sure that when you confessed that sin to God that you were walking in the light? What was the light you were walking in so that the blood of Christ could cleanse you from that sin and all of its unrighteousness? What makes you so sure that you were cleansed from that sin, do you have any evidence or did you just take it by faith? How can we trust that you have been actually cleansed from all your sin and that you are confessed up to date? After all we don't want to fellowship with a brother with unconfessed sin that walks in darkness because of sin in his life.

If a brother walks in darkness because his sin was not genuinely confessed and repented of, then he has not really been cleansed and according to you has no salvation. You can tell us anything about what you have done concerning your sin but God knows the true condition of your heart and whether he has cleansed you or not. For all we know you may be one of those, in that day, who confesses to God that you have done all these wonderful works of confession in His name (moral power and excellence of the soul) but will have to hear, 'Sorry, I never knew you, depart from you worker of iniquity'. Is that a possibility for you Jason that you will have to face rejection because you were not cleansed from every single sin? Perhaps we all understand (Mt 7) a little better because of the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

 

[IDEAtor]

This original post may try teaching specific theology, but it at least points people to (re)consider their walk with God. Thanks.

 

[psychomom]

i have a question...why would some of you assume those of us who believe
God holds us securely are woeful, unrepentant sinners?
(honest question)

why would we need threats and fear to obey the Lord,
when we can do so gladly and eagerly because we love Him?
why would any true child of God...who had walked with Him a while...
who had learned to trust Him and been given by Him love for Him...
why would any such Christian need threats?

i'm a parent. when our children were very small, they had to know the rules
and the consequences for breaking them. as they grew, they began to see
the rules were in place for their good and their dad and i had their best interests at heart...
and they trusted us and did as we asked out of love for us and trust in us.

does it really work that differently with our Father in heaven?

 

[Jason0047]

I would rather you answer the question....

What you want and what will happen are two different things. I believed you insulted the Spirit. But I have prayed for you. Again, this is not a baptism thread. My reply to your question suggests I prove you wrong with Scripture on the topic of baptism, of which I have already done already. Besides, even if this thread was on baptism, I know that no actual verse would ever convince you (no matter what it said).