Yes. They are not deserving of Christ's work because they did not accept it because they did not truly repent. They are still in love with their old self and in love with serving their sin and not serving God. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. This is what the Condemnation is all about. John 3:19-20 says, "And this is the Condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
Who are you to say whether they are deserving of Christ's work or not? Judge not lest you become judged......
You cannot walk in perfect light while you live on earth. The earth is satans kingdom and we are all walking in darkness until Christ returns.
Even if you're the pope!
No, OSAS proponents have taken something simple and turned it into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4 NIV). For Peter identifies those false believers as those who have eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14).
There is a simplicity in Christ. You know right from wrong. Good guys are not people who do bad and evil things. That is Morality 101. That is simple basics. You don't need a Bible to tell you good guys do good and bad guys do bad. Those who sin with no remorse and have no desire to change are hypocrites. For the Bible says one thing and they do another thing. Jesus talked about the Pharisees being hypocrites.
Don't be naive! There are some bad people in the world that are just trying to be good. And there are some good people that are trying to be bad.
Take a pint of water. Dip a tea bag into it. What happens? The water changes color right? How can you remove the tea from the water? You cannot! Not without sieving it through a filter. Jesus is that filter.
There are some people that are bad because they started doing something bad and its stuck on them. They don't want to do it but they find themself still doing it. What was it that Paul said in
Romans 7:15? For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
This is Paul saying, I don't understand it but even though I don't want to do bad things, I still do them!
This is the same for people and is the exact reason that we need a Saviour.
Just because you say that people can be out of fellowship with God doesn't make it so. You actually need a Bible verse or two to support that line of thinking. However, you don't have to bother looking for one. Not only has nobody been able to produce one so far, but there is Scripture that actually says the exact opposite. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. John 17:3 says that eternal life is in knowing the true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing someone implies a fellowship. So eternal life is tied to fellowship. For Jesus Christ alone is the only one who possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). For if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to him (Romans 8:9).
You think its all so simple and black and white don't you? I don't attend Christian fellowship anymore. I don't go to church. And I don't set out to do good deeds for the day. I don't donate to charity and I'm generally very rude and arrogant most of the time. Especially in the mornings without coffee!
But I'm saved because
Romans 10:9 KJV says That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
It doesn't say, you must become a good person first! That will happen when and only when we get to Heaven. We will be made perfect and will sin no more for ever.
Again, you don't know your Bible. That's not what the Bible says. Jesus says judge not by outward appearances but judge righteous Judgment. Paul says know ye not that ye shall judge angels? For Paul says we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we are to rather reprove them. What is unfruitful works of darkness? Again, read the Condemnation one more time in John 3:19-20.
Don't tell me I don't know my bible. How do you know how much I know about the bible? I see what you are saying, but life its not as black and white as that my friend. Read what I just said, what Paul said in
Romans 7:15. This is God saying to us (through Paul) that even though you want to do good, you have become infected by sin and you cannot help but to sin.
THATS WHY HE SENT HIS SON AS A REDEEMER IS IT NOT!?
I don't care how close you are to Christ. I don't care how much of a good person you think you are. You
WILL sin again and will continue to do so until the day you die.
You know what I mean. Please offer how the words in those passages relate to OSAS. I am asking for a commentary. Surely that should not be too difficult for you. But I am not really expecting you to do that because you do not know how to actually explain those passages in relating to OSAS.
You shouldn't be so quick as to judge what a person is or isn't able to do. I don't have time to do it all, (I just have enough to quote you). But there is plenty evidence and biblical quotes here for OSAS
Once Saved, Always Saved
Lots of quotes there that say that OSAS is the case.
You
CANNOT loose your salvation in Christ.
Would God (Yes GOD Himself) give a man the gift of eternal life with Him and then snatch it away again for being naughty?
Like I said God does NOT make mistakes.
Then how does sin get taken away in one's life personally if it is not by some OSAS belief alone?
Are you asking me for the answer or trying to make a point? Surely we both already know the answer. Sin is not "taken away". It is forgiven. Sin wont be "taken away" until we make it to Heaven where we will have perfect sinless bodies.
That's not what it says in context, though. Again. 1 John 1:6 says if we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:6-7 is reworded in 1 John 2:3-6. It says, hereby we can know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:1 says to the brethren if they sin, they have an advocate that they can go to named Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1). This means 1 John 1:9 applies to the believer. For OSAS proponents do not believe they have any sin held to their account. So they are saying in Christ, they have no sin. But 1 John 1:8 says if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Then 1 John 1:9 is the next verse that follows.
You keep quoting John 1:6 as though it is the be all and end all to everyone your arguments. But to be honest I am starting to get a bit confused as to what your point is here now.
Yes, that professing believer who still abides in unrepentant sin (with no remorse) is not saved. They need to repent and forsake their sin with God's help. For the Scriptures say, "For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord."
Yes we do, daily. Nobody on earth is truly "holy". Since we are all sinners to God. It's only when we get to Heaven we will be truly holy like God and be able to see Gods face.
Paul and the Bible do not teach OSAS. You have tricked yourself into believing a lie that is not in the Scriptures. Look, you can't even explain simple verses in 1 John 1 to me in your own words.
I have not tricked myself into anything. What are you talking about man "it's not in scripture"!?? How many times do I have to quote
Romans 10:9 to you?
Well, I have considered OSAS for a brief time. But Scripture completely is against such a concept everywhere. From Genesis to Revelation you can see many examples that refute OSAS.
Really?????? So you DO think that God gives that gift of forgiveness and eternal life to a man and then takes it away again. You DO think that God makes mistakes yes? Is that what you are saying??
He doesn't want us to be happy in sin; And God will not condone or reward you by allowing you to enter into Heaven because of it, either.
Did I say that? I don't think I said that.. I said, God wants us to be happy. We are ALL living in sin. All of us are worthy of being put to death. God wants us to be happy (despite our sins).
Does your preacher say the words, "Rightly divide the Word of truth" ? I know this is taken from Scripture, but OSAS proponents say this phrase like it is their personal pet motto or slogan or something. On another forum, others have used this same phrase from Scripture. As if saying it actually explains everything.
Sorry, but call it my failing brain idk, but I don't quite understand what your point is here if you'd care to reiterate?
But it doesn't explain anything. You can't explain the morality behind OSAS. For how is letting people who can sin and rebel against God not being hypocritcal? You know the Bible says to be holy and be righteous, and yet God is going to just like let you slide in doing evil? Jesus had some pretty nasty words against those who did evil and appeared to be religious.
Like I've already said, we wont be doing evil then. We will never do evil again. At that point in time. I will be perfect and sin free, sin less. Without blame, perfect and righteous in Gods presence.
YOU CANNOT BE HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS! YOU CANNOT DO GODS WILL! WE ARE BROKEN! Since Eve sinned, ALL of us are born broken. Born into sin. You can try to be holy. You can try to be righteous. But you need to see that none of us are. Not even the pope! So yes, I do think that God is going to let me in. Because a) Christ died for my sins and b) I will no longer be held captive by the sins of this world.
Jesus never said anything nasty. What did He say that was nasty? He rebuked people but he never ever once cursed anyone whether a singular or collective group of people. The only time he got angry was when they turned the chapel into a den of thieves and he drove them out. But he never said anything nasty. He just rebuked them.
You wont be able to do evil in Heaven. Since evil wont exist any more..
You think that we must become some kind of saints to enter into Heaven?
Did Christ come to earth to save the righteous?
Or did He come to save us sinners?
On that day, you are going to be so surprised to see people in Heaven that you would never thought in a million years that they would make it there.
We are all sinners and some of us cannot help to sin. Even those that accept Christ and are the most devout Christian you could ever meet will slip up and sin. Wither thats a careless slip of the tongue to something more benign. In fact you can be sure of it, because old hairy legs love to target those that are closest to God.
He walks around like a lion seeking someone to devour. He finds an alcoholic homeless man and passes by thinking, I have already destroyed his life. He seeks to find someone closer to God, someone that could do some damage to Gods ministry/family.
Sorry pal, you're probably a really nice chap in real life. But there are parts of the picture you are not seeing.
I mean, you started this thread with a question which you seemed to answer yourself as though you are the ending authority on the matter.
You need to learn to accept that you might be wrong. I do. And I can admit if I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll hold my hands up and say thank you for the lesson and instruction. What I wont do is try to rob someone of the joy that is only available to them through the faith that comes from knowing that OSAS is a truth you cannot refute. No matter how many bible verses you throw at it.
A man cannot loose his salvation. Even if he becomes a murderer and starts worshiping the devil. Once he has believed it and God knows his heart. That persons name is in the book of life forever. That is my belief. Shoot me down if you want. But that is what I've always been taught to believe and learned myself from scripture.
God bless you all the same!