Lordship Salvation is false teaching

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Scriptureplz

Guest
I'm not sure what it is that makes you think people who speak the truth about grace are not "doing". We "do" because we love Him, but not in order to be saved. This is the difference, you teach "do to receive", we teach "do because we have received". One of the things Jesus said to "do" was.......

Matthew 5:48 (KJV)

[SUP]48 [/SUP]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.




I know how I am doing with this instruction, how are you coming along with it? This is a command that was given for you to "do" correct? Are you doing it? Are you "perfect" as He is? No, I didn't think so. Why would Jesus instruct us to "do" perfection knowing that we couldn't possibly be perfect? I wonder if He was showing them (and us) just how far we as mortals are from being perfect with His "Sermon On The Mount". Have you ever read it all? Have you kept all it's instruction every minute of every day of your life?

I wonder if since Jesus knew they (nor we) could be perfect, He was showing them (and us) the only way to be perfect was by depending on Him and His righteousness?



Matthew 6:33 (KJV)

[SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
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Those verses remind me a little of some verses I read in Romans!



Romans 5:18-19 (KJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
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"Made righteous" is the only way you and I can "be perfect". It is His righteousness by which we are saved when we place our trust in Him ALONE!

If not we will "do" as Israel as trust in our own righteousness........


Romans 10:1-4 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
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This is as clear as I know how to make it using Gods Words, not mine.
HRFTD, I would just like to know if you read the scripture I gave you in this comment. Did you? Because I don't think it can be made any more clear to you than it does in these passages. How can you ignore them? Do you think they are wrong or taken out of context?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
That's true, but apart from the new covenant, Jesus saves no one. Abraham looked ahead to it through faith, as all righteous men before it did.
Brilliant. So then why are you here trying to save yourself by your "doing" and telling others to follow you in your folly??
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Nonsense!
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[a] 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[b] 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. (Rom 4:1-4)

Is Paul lying again...or what?
Justified means justified, not saved. Justification is imputed righteousness. It is an entry in a book, so to speak, that can be blotted out through rebellion.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Justified means justified, not saved. Justification is imputed righteousness. It is an entry in a book, so to speak, that can be blotted out through rebellion.
So for you salvation is both justification and sanctification...that if people aren't sanctified then their salvation is questioned?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Justified means justified, not saved. Justification is imputed righteousness. It is an entry in a book, so to speak, that can be blotted out through rebellion.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace, we have been saved through faith..

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

*So is the person who is saved, justified? Is the person who is justified, saved?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
HRFTD, I would just like to know if you read the scripture I gave you in this comment. Did you? Because I don't think it can be made any more clear to you than it does in these passages. How can you ignore them? Do you think they are wrong or taken out of context?
Your message is kind of, long winded and side winding.

None of the scriptures you post address He Rose true concern about rather you truly understand God's sanctifying work in the lives of believers. Its just goes back to milk without talking about the meat.

Don't worry you don't have to respond, but just answering why your message might not be favorably received.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace, we have been saved through faith..

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

*So is the person who is saved, justified? Is the person who is justified, saved?
Amen Dan!

I think what throws well-intentioned works-based mindsets into a tail-spin- is this "salvation thing".


I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved
" = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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So for you salvation is both justification and sanctification...that if people aren't sanctified then their salvation is questioned?
We are justified and sanctified when we believe the gospel. Salvation is abiding in Christ. That requires faith and effort on our part. I like to call that progressing sanctification. In other words, as we grow we abide in our sanctification.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
2 different types of salvation, Grace777?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
We are justified and sanctified when we believe the gospel. Salvation is abiding in Christ. That requires faith and effort on our part. I like to call that progressing sanctification. In other words, as we grow we abide in our sanctification.
You call it progressive sanctification, everyone else just calls it what it is, salvation by works.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
We are justified and sanctified when we believe the gospel. Salvation is abiding in Christ. That requires faith and effort on our part. I like to call that progressing sanctification. In other words, as we grow we abide in our sanctification.
Faith is a gift from God and what kind of effort do you mean?

We are justified when we first believe, but we aren't sanctified until we walk with the Holy Spirit who teaches us how to move beyond milk to meat.
 
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TonyJay

Guest
Justified means justified, not saved. Justification is imputed righteousness. It is an entry in a book, so to speak, that can be blotted out through rebellion.
Justification is a legal term and, in fact, Paul uses it explain exactly what salvation is.
Justification is imputed righteousness only in the context of grace:

Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”[d]) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.”[e] 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[f]
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. (Rom 4:16-25)




 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
So for you salvation is both justification and sanctification...that if people aren't sanctified then their salvation is questioned?
Impossible. Sanctification is the justified life. And it’s all the work of Christ. Justification is objective, Christ’s work for us. Sanctification is subjective, Christ’s work within us.
 

miknik5

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Jun 2, 2016
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CHRIST sanctified HIMSELF for us...and we are sanctified by THAT TRUTH provided we REMAIN IN HIM.

But sanctification, that call to be HOLY as HE is HOLY is an ongoing call...and it is the work of the sanctifier who is in us.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Faith is a gift from God and what kind of effort do you mean?

We are justified when we first believe, but we aren't sanctified until we walk with the Holy Spirit who teaches us how to move beyond milk to meat.
You were sanctified (made holy) the moment you received the holy spirit. That is what makes us holy.

What kind of effort? Whatever it takes (that's between you and the spirit), but let's start here (remember, saving faith does).

This is the work of God: that you believe into the one [the father] set apart. John 6:29
 
Nov 22, 2015
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2 different types of salvation, Grace777?
Maybe a better term would be 2 manifestations of salvation...one in this life and one for going to heaven....

I'm sure you know the difference. If you were to suddenly take up shooting heroin - your life here in this earth would go drastically down-hill...but when you died ( which might be very quick with the heroin use ) - you would be saved and would be in heaven because of the grace of God in Christ.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
You were sanctified (made holy) the moment you received the holy spirit. That is what makes us holy.

What kind of effort? Whatever it takes (that's between you and the spirit), but let's start here (remember, saving faith does).
This is the work of God: that you believe into the one [the father] set apart. John 6:29
It’s Jesus who completes the work He has begun in us, not us.

"For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6
 
Feb 24, 2015
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There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.
This language is like saying marriage is about two things, living together until one of you die and getting on with each other today in love.

The idea that things could get mixed up is just confused thinking. We are called to walk with Jesus in the same way we will in heaven, without sinning. Jesus called this following perfect, but this is not perfect in our terms but His.

We are called not to worry about tomorrow, but concentrate on today. It would appear if you accept you sin continuously, daily, without break, and your mission is to concentrate on your perfect new heart, these ideas start to make sense in this belief system. Ofcourse the difference between being with the Lord and today are like night and day, failure and success.

But this is not the language of Paul or Jesus. Rather their language is about victory. Building your house upon the rock, walking as holy, pure, blameless children of God. Rather than fault or failure, this is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.

But the opposition say, it is just self-righteousness so evil, even when it is Jesus's work in our hearts which has transformed us into His people. Though Paul says we need to acknowledge this good work done in us, the reflection of Christ in our actions, they would rather talk condemnation and failure, defeat and hypocracy, even when there is none. Now that is confusion.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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It is written, GOD will be just and the JUSTIFIER of all whose faith is in HIS SON...

There are many who "go out" from THE TRUTH that it is because of CHRIST that we are JUSTIFIED in the sight of GOD...
and Paul even talks about those who have "pierced themselves"...

John's understanding is from the SPIRIT of TRUTH because it makes sense that those who "go out from us" make manifest that they were NEVER with us...because if they had begun in what they should have begun in, they never would go out, understanding their GREAT SALVATION is in, by and through CHRIST and HIM alone...

We are washed (by HIS BLOOD) we are justified (in the sight of GOD through our faith in HIS BLOOD) and we appear "righteous" because of HIS BLOOD...but it is only because of HIS ROYAL ROBES of RIGHTEOUSNESS, HIS COVERING that we appear "righteous"...Apart from HIS COVERING,there isn't THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD...and even Paul said, he wanted to be found IN HIM, not professing a "righteousness" apart from HIM.

Sanctification...I have come to understand in personal experiences in my walk is to be still and know that HE is GOD in all situations and circumstances. That all things are under HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...and therefore nothing is out of HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...and it is during these times that all I can "DO" is pray and wait...

I do believe GOD is doing a work in all our lives...this purifying, this laundering...it isn't pleasant, but the result is pure and holy and unbiased and impartial righteousness...

And that also is not of ourselves, not something that we can declare is "ours"...it is HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS made manifest in us...

Mortality has to be swallowed up in immortality...and even Paul said I fill up in my flesh what is lacking of the afflictions of CHRIST.

This is NOT an ACTIVE WORK as much as it is a PASSIVE WORK...which is why I said...I have come to understand that the "work" required of us is to REMAIN in HIM, not to "go out" from HIM, but to be still and know that HE is GOD...in all situations and circumstances...good (when it is easy to have faith and listen) and bad (when it isn't so easy to have faith and listen)....

Both "seasons" we are to be still and trust in HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

We are justified and sanctified when we believe the gospel. Salvation is abiding in Christ. That requires faith and effort on our part. I like to call that progressing sanctification. In other words, as we grow we abide in our sanctification.


You call it progressive sanctification, everyone else just calls it what it is, salvation by works.

There is a "working out" of the holiness that is already ours in Christ that will reflect in our outward behavior as we grow in the Lord.

I know what you mean though - to the works-based mindset - this is how you get saved and make sure you will always be saved for going to heaven and it is opposed to the real gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Acts 20:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. ( perfect tense - a completed work in our spirit - and it is passive = it was put on us - not something we did )

Same thing here spoken by the Lord Himself to Paul.

Acts 26:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'

( have been sanctified = perfect tense - a completed work in our spirit - and it is passive = it was put on us - not something we did )