Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?
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J
no worries VC.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.
they had lots of opinions of who Jesus was, notice He didnt order them all stoned to death. i think you make a bigger deal of it than what it is.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.
they had lots of opinions of who Jesus was, notice He didnt order them all stoned to death. i think you make a bigger deal of it than what it is.
Since it seems most Trinitarians believe that salvation is unattainable without believing in their doctrine, I guess this means that Jesus led Jews straight towards that path of damnation. The Jews of the time of Christ were strictly Monotheistic. They did not view God as Triune.
Obviously, Jesus would have known this too. If the Trinity Doctrine was indeed correct theology, then why did Jesus let this Jew continue in his false ideology of who God was?
Mark 12:28-34 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?” Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” But after that no one dared question Him.
So, you have a Jew continuing in his same belief system, and Jesus actually praising him for it and saying “you have answered wisely” and “you are not far from the kingdom of God”. Surely if Jesus was another person of a Godhead, He would have made it known to this Jew, right? Why would Jesus let Him walk away with his same misguided concept of God, when actually God is Triune?
Obviously, Jesus would have known this too. If the Trinity Doctrine was indeed correct theology, then why did Jesus let this Jew continue in his false ideology of who God was?
Mark 12:28-34 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?” Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” But after that no one dared question Him.
So, you have a Jew continuing in his same belief system, and Jesus actually praising him for it and saying “you have answered wisely” and “you are not far from the kingdom of God”. Surely if Jesus was another person of a Godhead, He would have made it known to this Jew, right? Why would Jesus let Him walk away with his same misguided concept of God, when actually God is Triune?
1
The three are one just as the tanakh is one - but composed of 3 parts, law, prophets, wisdom. The scribes and Pharisees knew this. Jesus is, and is in - all three.
Likewise the scribes and Pharisees knew the three part model of the Tree of Life, which being composed of three parts is also just one - and here is the place that many fall.
Modality sees only one part of God; Authority (law) by itself, or Compassion (prophets) by themself, or Discernment (Wisdom - Spirit) as stand alone. This is why they teach unity of the Tree of Life and thus G-O-D as one.
Likewise the scribes and Pharisees knew the three part model of the Tree of Life, which being composed of three parts is also just one - and here is the place that many fall.
Modality sees only one part of God; Authority (law) by itself, or Compassion (prophets) by themself, or Discernment (Wisdom - Spirit) as stand alone. This is why they teach unity of the Tree of Life and thus G-O-D as one.
Because the triuneness of God was slowly revealed by Jesus and finally confirmed by Him at the resurrection (Matth 28.19). But Peter had said, 'you are the Messiah the Son of the living God'. So it was slowly dawning on the Apostles. God was revealing it to them, once the unity of God was made clear. Now it has been made clear our excuses have gone. Deut 6 said that there was one God. Triune believers are agreed.
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Originally Posted by valiant
Because the triuneness of God was slowly revealed by Jesus and finally confirmed by Him at the resurrection (Matth 28.19). But Peter had said, 'you are the Messiah the Son of the living God'. So it was slowly dawning on the Apostles. God was revealing it to them, once the unity of God was made clear. Now it has been made clear our excuses have gone. Deut 6 said that there was one God. Triune believers are agreed.
Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23
“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26
Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18
“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9
“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)
John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).
The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19
Your example is just ridiculous.
Let the blind lead the blind.
You are not in Christ. Your Christ is insufficient.
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Jesus revealed the truth about Himself gradually. As with the parables, those whom God taught came to the truth. The triuneness of God in its final form awaited the resurrection. This was a period when one age was moving to another. Thus some Jews who had not heard of the cross still found salvation through the sacrifices and the circumcision of the heart. It is not so now.
Because their eyes were closed. He revealed it to those who would see.
Because there IS One Lord made up of a triunity? What he said I could equally say. Also see above.
but it was not misguided at the time. God's triunity was still being revealed. It was only made known at this time to those whose hearts were open. Jesus did not consider it a truth to be blazoned abroad among unbelievers. He wanted to let the Father make it known gradually in the hearts of those who were truly seeking, Note that the man in question had not entered the Kingly Rule of God. To have said it openly while He was still on earth as a debating point would have been foolish, and opened Him to a charge of blasphemy. But those whose hearts God opened finally saw clearly.
Because their eyes were closed. He revealed it to those who would see.
Because there IS One Lord made up of a triunity? What he said I could equally say. Also see above.
but it was not misguided at the time. God's triunity was still being revealed. It was only made known at this time to those whose hearts were open. Jesus did not consider it a truth to be blazoned abroad among unbelievers. He wanted to let the Father make it known gradually in the hearts of those who were truly seeking, Note that the man in question had not entered the Kingly Rule of God. To have said it openly while He was still on earth as a debating point would have been foolish, and opened Him to a charge of blasphemy. But those whose hearts God opened finally saw clearly.
Notice, you failed to highlight the only correct answer. He did not say those others were saved too. And who does the Old Testament say that the Messiah is:
Isaiah 43:10-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He.
No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I alone declared, saved, and proclaimed— and not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and I am God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Also, from today on I am He ⌊alone⌋, and none can deliver from My hand. I act, and who can reverse it?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] This is what the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel says: Because of you, I will send to Babylon and bring all of them as fugitives, even the Chaldeans in the ships in which they rejoice.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I am Yahweh, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.
Psalm 28:8 (GW)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The LORD is the strength of his people and a fortress for the victory of his Messiah.
Daniel 9:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
I am sure you know that the word "MESSIAH", can also be translated "Savior" (the One Anointed to bring Salvation) or "the Christ".
THEREFORE, the one who denies that Yahweh is the Spirit in Christ, is not a Believer.
1 John 2:22-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] No one who denies the Son can have the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well.
1 John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
That word KEEP, is in the one Greek Primary Verb Tense that we do not have in English. It implies an ongoing lifestyle of striving to KEEP. Therefore what that verse is saying is "If your Salvation doesn't produce an ongoing lifestyle of striving to keep His Commands, you lied about having come to KNOW HIM in the first place."
1 John 5:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Isaiah 43:10-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He.
No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I alone declared, saved, and proclaimed— and not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and I am God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Also, from today on I am He ⌊alone⌋, and none can deliver from My hand. I act, and who can reverse it?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] This is what the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel says: Because of you, I will send to Babylon and bring all of them as fugitives, even the Chaldeans in the ships in which they rejoice.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I am Yahweh, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.
Psalm 28:8 (GW)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The LORD is the strength of his people and a fortress for the victory of his Messiah.
Daniel 9:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
I am sure you know that the word "MESSIAH", can also be translated "Savior" (the One Anointed to bring Salvation) or "the Christ".
THEREFORE, the one who denies that Yahweh is the Spirit in Christ, is not a Believer.
1 John 2:22-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] No one who denies the Son can have the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well.
1 John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
That word KEEP, is in the one Greek Primary Verb Tense that we do not have in English. It implies an ongoing lifestyle of striving to KEEP. Therefore what that verse is saying is "If your Salvation doesn't produce an ongoing lifestyle of striving to keep His Commands, you lied about having come to KNOW HIM in the first place."
1 John 5:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Let’s pretend that a man believed that there were two gods. He points to the Bible and says “look your Bible is divided into two parts, the Old and New Testament”. Then he uses this to prove his point. Would his logic be correct? Is this what the division of our Bible means? Is that what we as Christians believe?
The same holds true in regards to the Jewish Tanakh. Just because it is divided up into three parts, does not mean that they believed in a three person God. It’s divided for organizational purposes, the same as our Bible.
The “Shema” was considered the most important part of prayer to the Jews. They would recite “Here, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one” twice a day. If you could go back to the time of Christ and ask a Jew if they believed God was comprised of three persons, they would emphatically tell you no.
Likewise, today Judaism still holds to those core beliefs. They do not feel that God is comprised of three persons. The scribe that spoke with Jesus, left with the same understanding of God’s nature, as before he talked with Jesus.
The same holds true in regards to the Jewish Tanakh. Just because it is divided up into three parts, does not mean that they believed in a three person God. It’s divided for organizational purposes, the same as our Bible.
The “Shema” was considered the most important part of prayer to the Jews. They would recite “Here, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one” twice a day. If you could go back to the time of Christ and ask a Jew if they believed God was comprised of three persons, they would emphatically tell you no.
Likewise, today Judaism still holds to those core beliefs. They do not feel that God is comprised of three persons. The scribe that spoke with Jesus, left with the same understanding of God’s nature, as before he talked with Jesus.
“It was not misguided at the time. God’s triunity was still being revealed.” Wouldn’t Jesus not revealing His nature, be counterintuitive for His mission for us to be saved? Wouldn’t Jesus not letting this Jew know that he was in err, prove not only damning for this Jew, but for many Christians down the road who read this verse? What purpose did it serve for Christ not to reveal Himself?
That is an accurate assessment of God. The Bible, Jesus nor His disciples ever taught the Trinity. The reason why is so simple, it is the very cause of most trinitarians missing it completely. The Father and the Son are both titles, as it is when all fathers produce sons of their own. For example, God is the Holy Spirit AND Father, according to Jn.4:24, 2 Cor.3:17-18, Mt.1:30 and Lk.1:35. ONE PERSON NOT TWO. For trinitarians to be consistent in their theology, the same should be done in the logic they use with their use of both the Holy Spirit and the Father as two persons, with Jesus, by using both He and His title of Son, to be TWO PERSONS, NOT ONE!
Quasar92
Before Christ was sent by God into this world, there was only God as the savior. When Jesus obeyed God even unto death on the cross, God exalted Him to become Lord of lords and King of kings. This is why you see OT language speaking of God as the only savior. Jesus was given a name above all other names after He completed His task given to Him by God.
