Grace alone or grace plus works?
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It seems you have me on the spot, that is on an inquisitional seat with a gentile twist to it.
You are aware the first converts to the faith of Abraham from the nations, those who came in the name of Jesus christ were taught from the Hebrew tests. This leads me to wonder why it is incumbant uponyou to attempt to prfect the Hebrew with Greek. Is this a sign of the beginning of the apostasy.. I will share AGAIN with you and all exactly what keeping, Greek or otherwise is, in the next post.
You are aware the first converts to the faith of Abraham from the nations, those who came in the name of Jesus christ were taught from the Hebrew tests. This leads me to wonder why it is incumbant uponyou to attempt to prfect the Hebrew with Greek. Is this a sign of the beginning of the apostasy.. I will share AGAIN with you and all exactly what keeping, Greek or otherwise is, in the next post.
Your not going to get an answer..Jaumej, when taken to task retorts with His spiritual superiority clause..::
My friend, if the Holy Spirit does not tell you, I could post until the Kingdom comes and you would yet not comprehend a word.
And this is a great one lol, he totally sidesteps the question and calls you a GENTILE twister.
Typical Jaumej.
Keeping the Commandments for Mailman who does not Know
Faith establishes the Law....the commandments.
God, by means of the gift of faith to all who believe, has taken His commandments, laws, statutes etc from stone and has inscribed them on our hearts.
Because His will is utmost to each of us who beieve Him, we, having the truth inscribed on our hearts, obey Him by nature, our new nature.
As far as your ever so exacting word, keep, is concerned we do His Word and Will because it is within us.
WE may also read through the Books of Moses and we see Jesus Christ, wisdom, and grace.....
The veil is lifte from our eyes.
All who claim to know better and oppose this truth yet have the veil and they are blind .
Just an aded footnote, it appears many if not all who oppose obeying God are also touched by anti-antisemitism. they dotally lose it when teh Ten Commandments ae mentioned as extant for all under grace. This is a lesson for all finding they way in Yeshua, Jesus.
Faith establishes the Law....the commandments.
God, by means of the gift of faith to all who believe, has taken His commandments, laws, statutes etc from stone and has inscribed them on our hearts.
Because His will is utmost to each of us who beieve Him, we, having the truth inscribed on our hearts, obey Him by nature, our new nature.
As far as your ever so exacting word, keep, is concerned we do His Word and Will because it is within us.
WE may also read through the Books of Moses and we see Jesus Christ, wisdom, and grace.....
The veil is lifte from our eyes.
All who claim to know better and oppose this truth yet have the veil and they are blind .
Just an aded footnote, it appears many if not all who oppose obeying God are also touched by anti-antisemitism. they dotally lose it when teh Ten Commandments ae mentioned as extant for all under grace. This is a lesson for all finding they way in Yeshua, Jesus.
That's truly sad. Is all of this law keeping (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the Sabbath) Old Covenant mixed with New Covenant theology a product of the Hebrew Roots movement? Elsewhere, others have pointed this out.
Hebrew Roots movement Question: "What is the Hebrew Roots movement?"
Answer: The premise of the Hebrew Roots movement is the belief that the Church has veered far from the true teachings and Hebrew concepts of the Bible. The movement maintains that Christianity has been indoctrinated with the culture and beliefs of Greek and Roman philosophy and that ultimately biblical Christianity, taught in churches today, has been corrupted with a pagan imitation of the New Testament gospels.
Those of the Hebrew Roots belief hold to the teaching that Christ's death on the cross did not end the Mosaic Covenant, but instead renewed it, expanded its message, and wrote it on the hearts of His true followers. They teach that the understanding of the New Testament can only come from a Hebrew perspective and that the teachings of the Apostle Paul are not understood clearly or taught correctly by Christian pastors today. Many affirm the existence of an original Hebrew-language New Testament and, in some cases, denigrate the existing New Testament text written in Greek. This becomes a subtle attack on the reliability of the text of our Bible. If the Greek text is unreliable and has been corrupted, as is charged by some, the Church no longer has a standard of truth.
Although there are many different and diverse Hebrew Roots assemblies with variations in their teachings, they all adhere to a common emphasis on recovering the "original" Jewishness of Christianity. Their assumption is that the Church has lost its Jewish roots and is unaware that Jesus and His disciples were Jews living in obedience to the Torah. For the most part, those involved advocate the need for every believer to walk a Torah-observant life. This means that the ordinances of the Mosaic Covenant must be a central focus in the lifestyle of believers today as it was with the Old Testament Jews of Israel. Keeping the Torah includes keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week (Saturday), celebrating the Jewish feasts and festivals, keeping the dietary laws, avoiding the "paganism" of Christianity (Christmas, Easter, etc.), and learning to understand the Scriptures from a Hebrew mindset. They teach that Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel, and this is one reason every born-again believer in Jesus the Messiah is to participate in these observances. It is expressed that doing this is not required out of legalistic bondage, but out of a heart of love and obedience. However, they teach that to live a life that pleases God, this Torah-observant walk must be part of that life.
The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis. Usually they prefer to be identified as "Messianic Christians." Many have come to the conclusion that God has "called" them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike. They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name "Jesus" in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the "true" names that God desires for Himself. In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.
As opposed to what the Hebrew Roots movement claims, the New Testament teachings of the Apostle Paul are perfectly clear and self-explanatory. Colossians 2:16,17 says, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day – things which are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Romans 14:5 states, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Scripture clearly indicates that these issues are a matter of personal choice. These verses and many others give clear evidence that the Mosaic Covenant laws and ordinances have ended. Continuing to teach that the Old Covenant is still in effect in spite of what the New Testament teaches, or twisting the New Testament to agree with the Hebrew Roots beliefs, is false teaching.
There are aspects of the Hebrew Roots teachings that certainly can be beneficial. Seeking to explore the Jewish culture and perspective, within which most of the Bible was written, opens and enriches our understanding of the Scriptures, adding insight and depth to many of the passages, parables and idioms. There is nothing wrong with Gentiles and Jews joining together in celebrating the feasts and enjoying a Messianic style of worship. Taking part in these events and learning the way in which the Jews understood the teachings of our Lord can be a tool, giving us greater effectiveness in reaching the unbelieving Jew with the gospel. It is good for Gentiles, in the body of the Messiah, to identify in our fellowship with Israel. However, to identify with Israel is different from identifying "as" Israel.
Gentile believers are not grafted into the Judaism of the Mosaic Covenant; they are grafted into the seed and faith of Abraham, which preceded the Law and Jewish customs. They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they are not Jews. Paul explains this clearly when he tells those who were circumcised (the Jews) "not to seek to be uncircumcised" and those who were uncircumcised (the Gentiles) "not to become circumcised" (1 Corinthians 7:18). There is no need for either group to feel they must become what they are not. Instead, God has made Jews and Gentiles into "one new man" in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This "new man" is referring to the Church, the body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It's important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles are united by one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, but one in Christ.
The influence of this movement is working its way into our churches and seminaries. It's dangerous in its implication that keeping the Old Covenant law is walking a "higher path" and is the only way to please God and receive His blessings. Nowhere in the Bible do we find Gentile believers being instructed to follow Levitical laws or Jewish customs; in fact, the opposite is taught. Romans 7:6 says, "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Christ, in keeping perfectly every ordinance of the Mosaic Law, completely fulfilled it. Just as making the final payment on a home fulfills that contract and ends one’s obligation to it, so also Christ has made the final payment and has fulfilled the law, bringing it to an end for us all.
It is God Himself who has created a world of people with different cultures, languages and traditions. God is glorified when we accept one another in love and come together in unity as "one" in Christ Jesus. It's important to understand that there is no superiority in being born Jewish or Gentile. We who are followers of Christ, comprised of many different cultures and lifestyles, are all of value and greatly loved because we've entered into the family of God.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrew-roots.html
Hebrew Roots movement Question: "What is the Hebrew Roots movement?"
Answer: The premise of the Hebrew Roots movement is the belief that the Church has veered far from the true teachings and Hebrew concepts of the Bible. The movement maintains that Christianity has been indoctrinated with the culture and beliefs of Greek and Roman philosophy and that ultimately biblical Christianity, taught in churches today, has been corrupted with a pagan imitation of the New Testament gospels.
Those of the Hebrew Roots belief hold to the teaching that Christ's death on the cross did not end the Mosaic Covenant, but instead renewed it, expanded its message, and wrote it on the hearts of His true followers. They teach that the understanding of the New Testament can only come from a Hebrew perspective and that the teachings of the Apostle Paul are not understood clearly or taught correctly by Christian pastors today. Many affirm the existence of an original Hebrew-language New Testament and, in some cases, denigrate the existing New Testament text written in Greek. This becomes a subtle attack on the reliability of the text of our Bible. If the Greek text is unreliable and has been corrupted, as is charged by some, the Church no longer has a standard of truth.
Although there are many different and diverse Hebrew Roots assemblies with variations in their teachings, they all adhere to a common emphasis on recovering the "original" Jewishness of Christianity. Their assumption is that the Church has lost its Jewish roots and is unaware that Jesus and His disciples were Jews living in obedience to the Torah. For the most part, those involved advocate the need for every believer to walk a Torah-observant life. This means that the ordinances of the Mosaic Covenant must be a central focus in the lifestyle of believers today as it was with the Old Testament Jews of Israel. Keeping the Torah includes keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week (Saturday), celebrating the Jewish feasts and festivals, keeping the dietary laws, avoiding the "paganism" of Christianity (Christmas, Easter, etc.), and learning to understand the Scriptures from a Hebrew mindset. They teach that Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel, and this is one reason every born-again believer in Jesus the Messiah is to participate in these observances. It is expressed that doing this is not required out of legalistic bondage, but out of a heart of love and obedience. However, they teach that to live a life that pleases God, this Torah-observant walk must be part of that life.
The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis. Usually they prefer to be identified as "Messianic Christians." Many have come to the conclusion that God has "called" them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike. They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name "Jesus" in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the "true" names that God desires for Himself. In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.
As opposed to what the Hebrew Roots movement claims, the New Testament teachings of the Apostle Paul are perfectly clear and self-explanatory. Colossians 2:16,17 says, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day – things which are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Romans 14:5 states, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Scripture clearly indicates that these issues are a matter of personal choice. These verses and many others give clear evidence that the Mosaic Covenant laws and ordinances have ended. Continuing to teach that the Old Covenant is still in effect in spite of what the New Testament teaches, or twisting the New Testament to agree with the Hebrew Roots beliefs, is false teaching.
There are aspects of the Hebrew Roots teachings that certainly can be beneficial. Seeking to explore the Jewish culture and perspective, within which most of the Bible was written, opens and enriches our understanding of the Scriptures, adding insight and depth to many of the passages, parables and idioms. There is nothing wrong with Gentiles and Jews joining together in celebrating the feasts and enjoying a Messianic style of worship. Taking part in these events and learning the way in which the Jews understood the teachings of our Lord can be a tool, giving us greater effectiveness in reaching the unbelieving Jew with the gospel. It is good for Gentiles, in the body of the Messiah, to identify in our fellowship with Israel. However, to identify with Israel is different from identifying "as" Israel.
Gentile believers are not grafted into the Judaism of the Mosaic Covenant; they are grafted into the seed and faith of Abraham, which preceded the Law and Jewish customs. They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they are not Jews. Paul explains this clearly when he tells those who were circumcised (the Jews) "not to seek to be uncircumcised" and those who were uncircumcised (the Gentiles) "not to become circumcised" (1 Corinthians 7:18). There is no need for either group to feel they must become what they are not. Instead, God has made Jews and Gentiles into "one new man" in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This "new man" is referring to the Church, the body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It's important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles are united by one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, but one in Christ.
The influence of this movement is working its way into our churches and seminaries. It's dangerous in its implication that keeping the Old Covenant law is walking a "higher path" and is the only way to please God and receive His blessings. Nowhere in the Bible do we find Gentile believers being instructed to follow Levitical laws or Jewish customs; in fact, the opposite is taught. Romans 7:6 says, "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Christ, in keeping perfectly every ordinance of the Mosaic Law, completely fulfilled it. Just as making the final payment on a home fulfills that contract and ends one’s obligation to it, so also Christ has made the final payment and has fulfilled the law, bringing it to an end for us all.
It is God Himself who has created a world of people with different cultures, languages and traditions. God is glorified when we accept one another in love and come together in unity as "one" in Christ Jesus. It's important to understand that there is no superiority in being born Jewish or Gentile. We who are followers of Christ, comprised of many different cultures and lifestyles, are all of value and greatly loved because we've entered into the family of God.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrew-roots.html
MM, my major at the University of Illinois was Linguistics along with another. I have read teh Word in several languges, among which is Hebrew.
None of the above amounts to a hill of beans when it comes to faith. Faith cmes by hearing the Word.
At the uiniversity, when I was first convinced of the HOly Spirit, I would whare the Word with everyone and aything. I have even read the Word out loud to the universe........
All this said, I have lerned from peple who do not even read, by the hOLY sPIRIT. oNE OF MY FAVORITE LESSONS WAS FROMONE SUCH ON Daivid.
When I speak about Hebrew, it is only because of the joy I have had indiscovering so many words tht are not completely translated in the Bible. These words have ony served tounderscore my faith, but, this is probably because I needed ths type of encouragement. Most people do not.
I amnot impressed BY YOUR definition since I have beenwell aware of what obedience means.....you can make it into a science if you wish, that would fall under the area of your vital needs.s
God bless you and do learn to obey God's commandments, for they are love and wisdom.
None of the above amounts to a hill of beans when it comes to faith. Faith cmes by hearing the Word.
At the uiniversity, when I was first convinced of the HOly Spirit, I would whare the Word with everyone and aything. I have even read the Word out loud to the universe........
All this said, I have lerned from peple who do not even read, by the hOLY sPIRIT. oNE OF MY FAVORITE LESSONS WAS FROMONE SUCH ON Daivid.
When I speak about Hebrew, it is only because of the joy I have had indiscovering so many words tht are not completely translated in the Bible. These words have ony served tounderscore my faith, but, this is probably because I needed ths type of encouragement. Most people do not.
I amnot impressed BY YOUR definition since I have beenwell aware of what obedience means.....you can make it into a science if you wish, that would fall under the area of your vital needs.s
God bless you and do learn to obey God's commandments, for they are love and wisdom.
jaumej, just filled with malignant things to say of others, to assert they're lost, in apostasy, and it is not too far from him to imply others a fool. When he is hit with correction, derogation on the person is forthcoming.
The letter kills: Hebrew Roots is heresy, cultic and has a false gospel message. It has the effect of Luke 18:9-12 on its subjects. Couple all that with the typical judaizer mentality.
Re: Keeping the Commandments for Mailman who does not Know
*There is something you need to know:
"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on the Church/Christians under the New Covenant.
*Colossians 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day — 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
All of the moral precepts of 9 the 10 Commandments from the OT are repeated under the New Covenant, yet not the command to keep the Sabbath.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
*There is something you need to know:
"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on the Church/Christians under the New Covenant.
*Colossians 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day — 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
All of the moral precepts of 9 the 10 Commandments from the OT are repeated under the New Covenant, yet not the command to keep the Sabbath.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
aith establishes the Law....the commandments.
God, by means of the gift of faith to all who believe, has taken His commandments, laws, statutes etc from stone and has inscribed them on our hearts.
Because His will is utmost to each of us who beieve Him, we, having the truth inscribed on our hearts, obey Him by nature, our new nature.
As far as your ever so exacting word, keep, is concerned we do His Word and Will because it is within us.
WE may also read through the Books of Moses and we see Jesus Christ, wisdom, and grace.....
The veil is lifte from our eyes.
All who claim to know better and oppose this truth yet have the veil and they are blind .
Just an aded footnote, it appears many if not all who oppose obeying God are also touched by anti-antisemitism. they dotally lose it when teh Ten Commandments ae mentioned as extant for all under grace. This is a lesson for all finding they way in Yeshua, Jesus.
God, by means of the gift of faith to all who believe, has taken His commandments, laws, statutes etc from stone and has inscribed them on our hearts.
Because His will is utmost to each of us who beieve Him, we, having the truth inscribed on our hearts, obey Him by nature, our new nature.
As far as your ever so exacting word, keep, is concerned we do His Word and Will because it is within us.
WE may also read through the Books of Moses and we see Jesus Christ, wisdom, and grace.....
The veil is lifte from our eyes.
All who claim to know better and oppose this truth yet have the veil and they are blind .
Just an aded footnote, it appears many if not all who oppose obeying God are also touched by anti-antisemitism. they dotally lose it when teh Ten Commandments ae mentioned as extant for all under grace. This is a lesson for all finding they way in Yeshua, Jesus.
