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mailmandan;3361595]Are you a member of the SDA church? That sounds like their logic. "Come out of the Roman Catholic church and keep the Sabbath day on Saturday?" Is that your implication? They turn keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant and basically turn the Sabbath day into an idol.
I do not belong to the SDA. I have never promoted this religious franchise or any other. My post did in no way promote one "church" over another.
I asked a sincere and relevant question. And all I get from you is accusations of wrong doing while you hide from the question.
Is believing in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and loving one another, as He commanded us rejecting God's Word?
If that once sentence was the whole and complete Bible, and there were no other Word's that Jesus said to live by, then you question might have some merit. But Jesus said a lot things, and gave many instructions. I don't presume to be holy enough to pick and choose which of Christ's words I believe, and which of Christ's Words I don't believe. If I reject Christ's Word, it doesn't really matter if I reject them all, or 1/2 of them, or 25% of them. I either Believe in Him or I don't.
You need to be careful not to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture. That is how people arrive at salvation by works.
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Descriptive, prescriptive, Just words to silence scriptures that expose man made doctrines and traditions. I only hear them used to try make a claim that the scripture doesn't say what it says. Besides this command to do what Jesus said is written in others places in the Bible.
Deut. 18:
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren,
like unto me;
unto him ye shall hearken;
18 I will raise them up
a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
and will put my words in his mouth; and he
shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever
will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require
it of him.
Since I have no man made traditions to defend, It doesn't bother me to listen and to follow the Instruction's Jesus gave me. It was the same for Jesus. The Mainstream Preachers of His time hated Him because He exposed their religion as from man, and not from God. He did only those thing that the Fathers Commanded Him.
To believe and rely on Him for salvation means we must trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Doing what He says "after we have been saved through faith" is works and we are not saved by works
.
Did you just listen to what you just posted? To justify your lifestyle you just said that we should listen and obey what He says until we are saved, then after we are saved, if we listen and obey we are doing Works. And then you must believe have "fallen from Grace."
This is what Jesus warned about in Matt. 24:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,
Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For
many shall come in
my name, saying, I am Christ;
and shall deceive many.
Do you really preach to others that we are to stop listening and obeying what Christ said after we come to Him?
In regards to transgressing the Commandments of God by man made doctrines/traditions, in Matthew 15, we read:
Matthew 15:1 - Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread." 3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God"-- 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
So what Commandments of God are you accusing believers of transgressing?
I am accusing "Believers" of nothing. I am speaking about the Biblical prophesy regarding a HUGE RELIGION, that comes in Christ's Name, and that deceives "MANY". Jesus spent some time speaking about this church.
Matt. 7:
13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide
is the gate, and broad
is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
I believe ALL things Jesus said and inspired. So I know there is a Broad Path with "MANY" on it. And given Jesus warns about deceit, I don't ignore that TRUTH when looking at His Word. I ask myself the question:
Why would "many" follow a path to destruction? But then I remember the Word's of my Savior, "MANY will come in My Name, and will DECEIVE MANY.
So the leaders of the Broad Path, are they declaring "Come follow us on the Path to destruction"? Of course not, if they did no one would be on this path. No, the leaders of the broad path declare "Come follow us on the Path to eternal life", and "MANY" are deceived into following it as Jesus said.
This is how Mainstream Christianity (MC) can hate His Sabbath, that He created for man, reject it and create their own. This is they you can hate the Jesus of the Bible, and create images of Him in the likeness of man, a direct violation of the First and Greatest Commandment, and not be ashamed. This is how MC can reject His Holy Days, that layout His Salvation plan, which starts with Passover, followed by Unleavened bread, and create their own High Days and "Feasts unto the Lord" that God expressly forbad, all in Jesus' name, and they do it with a straight face.
The Jews had created the Talmud and rejected God's Path. They created their own religion complete with their own laws and their own images of God, and their own "Feasts unto the Lord" as it was prophesied in the OT and brought to remembrance by Jesus.
In their law is was a sin to eat with unwashed hands. Not God's Law. In their law it was a sin to walk in fellowship on God's Sabbath and pick and eat a raspberry. In their law it was sin to eat with or associate with a gentile. Jesus and those following Him broke these "Jewish" laws.
John 19:
7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Acts 24:
5 For we have found this man
a pestilent
fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:
6 Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according
to our law.
And Before Jesus became a man He also warned of this.
Jer. 14:
14 Then the LORD(Jesus) said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Jer. 23:
16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain:
they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said,
Ye shall have peace;
and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
So your preaching that the Jews or their preachers, the Pharisees, were trying to obey God for salvation is an absolute Lie according to the Scriptures. Yet, you all continue to preach this lie even after I and others have shown you the error. Not in error according to my doctrines and traditions, but in error according to the sacred Word of our Lord Jesus.
*Please explain to me what you believe it means to "KEEP" His Commandments.*
My belief is not mine, I am purchased by Christ with His Blood, I am no longer my own. So I look to the Author and Finisher of my Faith, Jesus. I let His Walk define what it means to Keep the Commandments, as He was the perfect example for mankind and the Word He inspired instructed me to "walk" even as He walked.
This would of course, directly contradict your preaching about "doing what He says" after you are "saved".
Did Jesus honor His First and Greatest Commandment? How can you preach He didn't. So He, nor His Church, would ever create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model.
Neither Jesus, not His Church would ever create "Feasts unto the Lord" to worship this image they created.
Neither Jesus, nor His Church would ever reject God's Sabbath the He created for man, and create their own Sabbath on some Pagan High Day.
Yet, Mainstream Christianity, and by extension you, does all these things and more, all in the Name of Jesus as prophesied..
Jer. 6:
13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one
is given to covetousness;
and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
14 They have healed also the hurt
of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace,(Your saved) peace;(Your saved) when
there is no peace.(you are not saved)
15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush:
therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time
that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
16 Thus saith the LORD,(Jesus) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where
is the good way,(Take MY Yoke one you)
and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said,
We will not walk therein.
It's all there Dan, it all there is your Bible. But you can't see it because you are too busy defending church doctrines and traditions that transgress God's Commandments.
We were all born into this religion that Jesus and Abraham was born into. This religion and the death and deception it brings is the Yoke of Bondage our fathers couldn't bear. When we "Come out of her" (repent) and bring works Worthy of repentance (Walk even as He walked) then we are free from the bondage of this deception.
But there is a cost. You will hated of all men if you do this. You will be called a legalist and a Pharisee just as Jesus was called the devil and they hated him enough to kill Him, just for telling them about the their religion which has been prophesied about for centuries.
I know most can not accept this, most will ridicule and call me names and put me on ignore, etc. But for some reason I feel it's different for you. I hope you don't prove me wrong.
It sounds to me like you define "BELIEVES IN HIM" as obey Him through perfect obedience to His Commandments. Are you trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation or are you trusting in your best efforts to obey His Commandments as the supplemental means of your salvation?
I clearly qualified my position. "
We are talking about two completely different things. I'm talking about looking at God's Word and rejecting it. You are talking about slipping and falling."
Like Ellen White and the SDA church for example.
It is dishonest to attempt to tie me to some organized church as my doctrine come, not from the traditions of man, but from the Bible. You are free to make your case with my words or scriptures. But it seems dishonest to create a connection that isn't there.
I have often heard works salvationists (including Roman Catholics and Mormons) quote Matthew 19:17 in an effort to prove that salvation is based on the merits of their best efforts to "Keep the Commandments," yet Jesus was showing the rich young man how short he falls of even keeping the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37). The rich young man confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing/trusting in Jesus for salvation
.
You preach we are not to listen and obey Jesus after we are "Saved" which is just plain goofy. If you are so far out of kilter to preach nonsense like this, how can your understanding of anything be taken seriously.
The rich young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. If keeping the commandments is the basis by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - keep the commandments, yet that's not what Paul said.
Paul said: Rom. 2:
13 (For not the hearers of the law
are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Same thing Jesus said when asked how to get to heaven. It's not my fault you refuse to acknowledge the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins God gave His people "till the seed should come". Doing so would explain Paul's battle with the mainstream church of his time, but would also expose church doctrines that are from man and not from God.
Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
Jesus said, before He became man, that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. "don't call Me good" He said, of course he said that, He was a man in all ways as we are. What is in us was in Him.
Rom. 7:
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,)
dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but
how to perform that which is good I find not.
Of course Paul recognizes this.
Acts 24:
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Your preaching that He deals with each individual differently is another tradition and doctrine of some religious franchise. Not from Jesus. He teaches:
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent,
ye shall all likewise perish.
So you wish to remain under the law?
Being "under the law" means being dead in my sins. Jesus freed me from the death transgression of God's Commandments gave me. Not from the definition of sins. He said "Go and sin no more". Am I to believe your preaching, as by extension, all of MC preaching that Jesus is preaching I should "Go get back under the Law".
No Dan, To go and "Sin no more" keeps me from being brought back under the law. Keep me from being "Tangled once again in the Bondage of sin, death and deception".
the MC preaching on this, as prophesied, is wrong.
I'll finish on another post.
