5 Points of Arminianism

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#62
The shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ is sufficient to pay the sin debt of the whole world (every single person who has ever lived, is currently alive now, or whoever will live in the future) but is efficacious only for those who by grace through faith believe.

You always give a supporting scripture included in a beautiful picture. Would you be kind enough to include this scripture?

Also give me your understanding of 1 Cor 2:14.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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#63
I understand your confusion, I was there many years myself. Some of Jesus's disciples told him that it was a hard doctrine, who could understand it.

Only God's sheep (his elect) can hear to understand his voice (John 10:26-29). The natural person, before he has been born again, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness (1 Cor 2:14).

Before we are born again, we are spiritually dead, unable to choose spiritual things (Eph 2:1).
Yeah, you can keep repeating that, but the Bible also shows how God chooses the people to be saved. It's the people who choose to listen and learn from Him. Somewhere in that process, they're given discernment from the Holy Spirit. It's quite possible that the Holy Spirit was given at the same time that these people are given to the Lord Jesus.

I don't know why you wouldn't want salvation to be offered to everyone? Does it make being saved feel less special? Not all will get saved because not all are going to choose to hear God and learn from Him, if that makes you feel a little better.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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#64
I saw the first post and I wanted to respond.
Than, I saw the rest of the posts and I just got sad and started to shake my head.
So now I’m here to give you all some coffee. Would you all like some coffee?
Let’s all sip some coffee.

View attachment 249166
Ok, I'm not Mormon, but I don't take caffeine. I have a bad reaction to it. Got anything else?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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#65
I understand your confusion, I was there many years myself. Some of Jesus's disciples told him that it was a hard doctrine, who could understand it.

Only God's sheep (his elect) can hear to understand his voice (John 10:26-29). The natural person, before he has been born again, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness (1 Cor 2:14).

Before we are born again, we are spiritually dead, unable to choose spiritual things (Eph 2:1).
The Bible says faith comes from hearing the Word. Clearly we can choose spiritual things.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,740
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#66
You always give a supporting scripture included in a beautiful picture. Would you be kind enough to include this scripture?

Also give me your understanding of 1 Cor 2:14.

1 Corinthians 2:14 + 14
God opens our eyes and our ears and gives us a heart capable of loving Him .:)
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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#67
You always give a supporting scripture included in a beautiful picture. Would you be kind enough to include this scripture?

Also give me your understanding of 1 Cor 2:14.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

But how does someone get Him? Through God of course! Magenta made a beautiful panel that included the previous verse 12 before it:

1 Corinthians 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

and

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

So not only will God the Father send those who choose to listen to and learn from Him to His Son, Lord Jesus, God will also give the Holy Spirit to these same people.

-=<*>=-

A little more about those people who choose to listen to and learn from God:

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

So those who choose to listen to God, learn from Him.

What do they learn? To believe He exists and will reward those who seek him.

What is the reward? They are sent to His Son, Lord Jesus for salvation and the Holy Spirit for discernment.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#68
Yes,

Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

This is why the Lord Jesus commands us to spread the gospel - so that people can choose to hear it and choose to learn from the message of the gospel. (Isaiah 53:1 “Lord, who has believed our message?”)

Most of Israel, God's chosen people, turned away from God, and started worshiping idols, and God blinded their eyes to see the truths of the gospel, until they repent, but they did not lose their eternal inheritance.

God also left in the midst of them an afflicted, and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord. The remnant of Israel shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.(Zeph 3:11-13).

It is the remnants responsibility to preach, and teach the gospel to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", praying that they should repent, not to inherit eternal life, which they already have, but to regain their fellowship with God.

Every time that a born again child of God commits a sin, they lose their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent.

Salvation=deliverance, according to Greek translation.

There is a one time deliverance for those that God gave to Jesus ro redeem them from their sins on the cross, but there are many deliverances for those who have been redeemed as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, such as; believing, accepting, confessing. and all other good deeds that they do.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#69

1 Corinthians 2:14 + 14
God opens our eyes and our ears and gives us a heart capable of loving Him .:)

Yes, God does open our eyes and our ears and exchanges the heart of stone, of the natural person, to a heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel spiritual guilt, but do you not believe that is accomplished by God's grace in quickening the natural person, while he is still spiritually dead, being unable to respond to things that are spiritual, as stated in Eph 2:1?

My understanding of 1 Cor 2:14 is that the natural person, until he has been quickened to the new spiritual life, cannot respond to anything of a spiritual nature, due to the fact that he cannot discern them, and thinks them to be foolishness.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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#70
Most of Israel, God's chosen people, turned away from God, and started worshiping idols, and God blinded their eyes to see the truths of the gospel, until they repent, but they did not lose their eternal inheritance.

God also left in the midst of them an afflicted, and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord. The remnant of Israel shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.(Zeph 3:11-13).

It is the remnants responsibility to preach, and teach the gospel to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", praying that they should repent, not to inherit eternal life, which they already have, but to regain their fellowship with God.

Every time that a born again child of God commits a sin, they lose their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent.

Salvation=deliverance, according to Greek translation.

There is a one time deliverance for those that God gave to Jesus ro redeem them from their sins on the cross, but there are many deliverances for those who have been redeemed as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, such as; believing, accepting, confessing. and all other good deeds that they do.
The above will be a discussion for another time.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#71
God has given mankind the freedom to make choices as to how they want to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth, but the eternal deliverance for those that God gave to Jesus for the redemption of their sin, (John 6:39), was made by God's sovereign grace, without the choice of mankind.
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( one result )

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, ( then other result )

of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬l

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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#72
Yes, God does open our eyes and our ears and exchanges the heart of stone, of the natural person, to a heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel spiritual guilt, but do you not believe that is accomplished by God's grace in quickening the natural person, while he is still spiritually dead, being unable to respond to things that are spiritual, as stated in Eph 2:1?

My understanding of 1 Cor 2:14 is that the natural person, until he has been quickened to the new spiritual life, cannot respond to anything of a spiritual nature, due to the fact that he cannot discern them, and thinks them to be foolishness.
But God DOES give His spirit to those who choose to listen and learn from Him. That is how God chooses who to save and enlighten It's not like He arbitrarily gives His Holy Spirit to random people. He has a criteria as has been outline before.

I don't know why you would want to stick to a teaching that is incomplete. Don't you want to learn everything from God as accurately as possible?
 

NOV25

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Nov 23, 2019
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#73
We are to Glorify God in everything. Calvinism does not make God look Glorified but rather something with complex issues over power and control.

And that is not how God is described in the Tanakh. God would be the same as He has always been. He desires the Lost to find life.

How can a God who desires sinners to find Life also be picking and choosing which ones go to HELL?
You sound almost atheistic, “if there is a God who knew people would suffer and go to hell then why did he bother to create us…”
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#74
1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

But how does someone get Him? Through God of course! Magenta made a beautiful panel that included the previous verse 12 before it:

1 Corinthians 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

and

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

So not only will God the Father send those who choose to listen to and learn from Him to His Son, Lord Jesus, God will also give the Holy Spirit to these same people.

-=<*>=-

A little more about those people who choose to listen to and learn from God:

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

So those who choose to listen to God, learn from Him.

What do they learn? To believe He exists and will reward those who seek him.

What is the reward? They are sent to His Son, Lord Jesus for salvation and the Holy Spirit for discernment.

Read my response to Magenta #69. it will explain to you how the natural person becomes born again.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#75
Your theology contradicts 1 Cor 2:14.
You base an entire theology on one verse. That's not good theology. The Holy Spirit can lead a person to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ without dwelling in that person as a new creation. You do know that right?
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#76
  • Human Free Will – This states that though man is fallen, he is not incapacitated by the sinful nature and can freely choose God. His will is not restricted and enslaved by his sinful nature.
  • Conditional Election – God chose people for salvation based on His foreknowledge where God looks into the future to see who would respond to the gospel message.
  • Universal Atonement – The position that Jesus bore the sin of everyone who ever lived.
  • Resistible Grace – The teaching that the grace of God can be resisted and finally beaten so as to reject salvation in Christ.
  • Fall from Grace – The Teaching that a person can fall from grace and lose his salvation.
the wibbly wobbly way ...
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#77
Colossians 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

So the old testament is a type and shadow of the new testament. Yes, God did give that choice to the Israelites, but since God doesn't change, He gave us a choice as well in Jesus.

The lost sheep of the house of Israel, and the remnant are present here and now, and all who are born again is one or the other of them. You are right God does not change.
 

NOV25

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Nov 23, 2019
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#78
Holiness Pentecostalism emerged in the early 20th century among radical adherents of the Wesleyan-Holiness movement, who were energized by Christian revivalism and expectation for the imminent Second Coming of Christ.[6] Believing that they were living in the end times, they expected God to spiritually renew the Christian Church, and bring to pass the restorationof spiritual gifts and the evangelization of the world. In 1900, Charles Parham, an American evangelist and faith healer, began teaching that speaking in tongues was the Bible evidence of Spirit baptism. Along with William J. Seymour, a Wesleyan-Holiness preacher, he taught that this was the third work of grace.[7] The three-year-long Azusa Street Revival, founded and led by Seymour in Los Angeles, California, resulted in the growth of Pentecostalism throughout the United States and the rest of the world. Visitors carried the Pentecostal experience back to their home churches or felt called to the mission field. While virtually all Pentecostal denominations trace their origins to Azusa Street, the movement has had several divisions and controversies. Early disputes centered on challenges to the doctrine of entire sanctification, as well as that of the Trinity. As a result, the Pentecostal movement is divided between Holiness Pentecostals who affirm the second work of grace, and Finished Work Pentecostals who are partitioned into trinitarian and non-trinitarian branches, the latter giving rise to Oneness Pentecostalism.[8][9]…Classical Pentecostal soteriology is generally Arminian rather than Calvinist.” Wiki.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#79
You base an entire theology on one verse. That's not good theology. The Holy Spirit can lead a person to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ without dwelling in that person as a new creation. You do know that right?

Nope! and the only way that you think you know it is my your misinterpretation of the scriptures.

What to you mean "theology by one verse"? I reference as many scriptures as anyone on this forum, probably more.

You did not give a scripture for the statement that you made in this post. You misinterpret Cor 2:14.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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#80
Nope! and the only way that you think you know it is my your misinterpretation of the scriptures.

What to you mean "theology by one verse"? I reference as many scriptures as anyone on this forum, probably more.

You did not give a scripture for the statement that you made in this post.
You primarily reference 1 Cor 2:14, not understanding it.