5 Points of Arminianism

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#81
Yeah, you can keep repeating that, but the Bible also shows how God chooses the people to be saved. It's the people who choose to listen and learn from Him. Somewhere in that process, they're given discernment from the Holy Spirit. It's quite possible that the Holy Spirit was given at the same time that these people are given to the Lord Jesus.

I don't know why you wouldn't want salvation to be offered to everyone? Does it make being saved feel less special? Not all will get saved because not all are going to choose to hear God and learn from Him, if that makes you feel a little better.

If the scriptures do not harmonize in your theology, then you are misunderstanding the scriptures.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#83
Yes, God does open our eyes and our ears and exchanges the heart of stone, of the natural person, to a heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel spiritual guilt, but do you not believe that is accomplished by God's grace in quickening the natural person, while he is still spiritually dead, being unable to respond to things that are spiritual, as stated in Eph 2:1?

My understanding of 1 Cor 2:14 is that the natural person, until he has been quickened to the new spiritual life, cannot respond to anything of a spiritual nature, due to the fact that he cannot discern them, and thinks them to be foolishness.
Yes, for we were made alive in Christ while dead in our trespasses and sins.


Jesus' Words in John 6:65
:)
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#85
You sound almost atheistic, “if there is a God who knew people would suffer and go to hell then why did he bother to create us…”
Because He allows us to choose our own path. By God giving us all equal ability to deny Him or Follow Him justifies God come Judgement Day.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
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#86
If the scriptures do not harmonize in your theology, then you are misunderstanding the scriptures.
They DO harmonize. I've already posted the verses for others to read. :)

Are you saved? What's your salvation story if you are? Do you have a personal walk with Him? Do you love Him and put Him first?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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#87
You sound almost atheistic, “if there is a God who knew people would suffer and go to hell then why did he bother to create us…”

God knowing people would go to hell and God creating a people for hell are two different things.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#88
If the scriptures do not harmonize in your theology, then you are misunderstanding the scriptures.
Scripture is to be studied and rightly divided. There are divisions to be made throughout scripture in order to set doctrine to the correct audience. Although the attributes of God does not change, the manner in which God deals with man has changed. It's very important to understand those differences.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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#89
Read my response to Magenta #69. it will explain to you how the natural person becomes born again.

We don't need you to explain it, the Word does. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Holy spirit works in us, as we hear we believe. Simple.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
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#90
Catholicism

“SEMI-PELAGIANISM
Yet the death of Pelagius was not the end of his speculation; not only were there still those who followed him, but there were those who tried to develop a ‘middle way’ between the strict Biblical teaching of original sin and that of human free will. In South Gaul in particular there were monks who taught that human nature had been damaged by the Fall, making it difficult for people to choose to do good, but that nevertheless it was possible for man, with divine help, to choose the good. Among these were the theologians John Cassian and Vincentius of Lerins. If the Biblical image is of man ‘dead in trespasses and sins’ (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13), the Semi-Pelagian view is that man is injured, maybe even half-dead, but still able to respond to God on his own. This too was condemned, at the Council of Orange in 529. The attempted compromise has been retrospectively named Semi-Pelagianism, and it failed because it did not address the basic questions raised by the controversy. While Augustine, following the Bible, placed the whole work of Salvation, from beginning to end, in the hands of God, the Semi-Pelagians tried to parcel out responsibility. Perhaps most ruinously, they founded God’s election on foreseen faith in the believer, thus making it man, not God, who begins the work of salvation.

THE MEDIEVAL CHURCH
In spite of the vigorous condemnation of Pelagius, and the decision of the Council of Orange, a form of semi-Pelagianism slowly became the standard teaching of the Western Catholic Church during the middle ages, more by accident than design. The historian J.W.C. Wand rather generously described it as ‘Semi-Augustinianism,’1 Formally the verdict of Orange was accepted, yet the idea that man has in some sense free will to choose God was taken almost as a self-evident part of theology. Of course this was not without challenges, as Augustine remained highly respected as a Doctor of the Church, even if one who was little read at times. While Augustine was firm in his teaching that salvation is all of God, medieval theology with its elaborate sacramental system made it a matter of cooperation between man and God, though with God taking the initiative. The unbiblical idea of a ‘prevenient grace’ (i.e. a grace that goes before) which God gives to allow all people to believe arose. It should be emphasized however that there always remained in the Western Catholic Church a stream of thought that was more Biblical, and it was this stream which was to come to the surface at the Reformation.” Banner of truth.


So far we’ve looked at Catholicism, Pentecostalism/Charismatic and the Methodist church, all of which have some serious issues to put it nicely. One common denominator is the fact that they’re all (generally) Pelagian, semi-pelagian or Arminian.
Coincidence?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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#91
So far we’ve looked at Catholicism, Pentecostalism/Charismatic and the Methodist church, all of which have some serious issues to put it nicely. One common denominator is the fact that they’re all (generally) Pelagian, semi-pelagian or Arminian.
Coincidence?
So what exactly are you trying to get at here? What's your bottom line? I don't like people labeling me or putting words in my mouth.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
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#93
“…The Briggs trial prompted the defeat of a plan for confessional revision in 1893. Briggs himself eventually left for the Episcopalian Church, but the push for revision continued. Thirty-four presbyteries sent overtures for revision to the 1900 Assembly, and that Assembly appointed a study committee of fifteen, which included a former U.S. President (Benjamin Harrison) and a sitting Supreme Court justice (John Harlan). One who was invited, but declined to serve, was Princeton's Benjamin B. Warfield. "It is an inexpressible grief," he wrote, to see the church "spending its energies in a vain attempt to lower its testimony to suit the ever changing sentiment of the world around it." Warfield's lament would persuade few. In an era when change was a sign of health, his dissent sounded, in the words of an opponent, as a call for the "harmony of standing still." Briggs may have left the church, but clearly his spirit lived on.

Despite some support for a major overhaul, a compromise prevailed that effected minor revisions to the Confession. In 1903 the church added two chapters on "The Holy Spirit" and "The Love of God and Missions." Both were crafted with language that was vaguely biblical and not distinctively Reformed. In addition, the church revised chapter 16, article 7, which described the works of the unregenerate. Where these works were formerly described as "sinful and cannot please God," the revised language described them as "praiseworthy." Perhaps of greatest significance was the inclusion of a "Declaratory Statement" that sought to explain the Confession's doctrine of election. In words that many accused of being deliberately ambiguous, the statement offered an "avowal ... of certain inferences" about predestination, softening the doctrine for those who found it offensive and contradictory to the doctrine of human freedom.

Presbyterians for the most part reacted enthusiastically to these changes. It was a preservation of "generic Calvinism" in the judgment of many. Henry Van Dyke carefully framed the results within the mainstream of Calvinist orthodoxy: "These two truths," he wrote, "God's sovereignty in the bestowal of his grace, and his infinite love for all men, are the hinges and turning points of all Christian theology. The anti-Calvinist decries the first. The hyper-Calvinist or Supralapsarian decries the second, holding that God creates some men on purpose to damn them, for his glory. The true Calvinist believes both and insists that they are consistent." The Philadelphia Public Ledger echoed Van Dyke's sentiments. The revisions to the Confession left its basic Calvinism intact while managing "to render it instantly so much more congenial to the modern mind."

Years later, Princeton historian Lefferts Loetscher was more candid when he described alterations as a "change to Arminianism." By these revisions, he wrote, "the Remonstrants of the Synod of Dort ... finally won recognition" in American Presbyterianism. Evidence for Loetscher's interpretation can be found in the reunion that took place on the heels of revision, when the Arminian prodigals of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church reunited with the Northern Presbyterians in 1906. Two years later, Presbyterians were leaders in the formation of the Federal Council of Churches, the institution that would emerge as the voice for mainline or (as evangelicals called it) "liberal" Protestantism.” OPC.ORG

PC USA Affirms gay marriage
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
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#94
So what exactly are you trying to get at here? What's your bottom line? I don't like people labeling me or putting words in my mouth.
I’m saying heresy breeds heresy, the proof is in the pudding.
Follow the path of destruction and it always leads back to Arminianism/Pelagianism.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#95
I’m saying heresy breeds heresy, the proof is in the pudding.
Follow the path of destruction and it always leads back to Arminianism/Pelagianism.
You make it seem that it is impossible to believe certain ways that are comparable to both without ever being taught about either person Arminian/Calvinism.

Who really cares about either one of these morons?

The Bible is very clear that my Salvation is absolutely nothing I have ever done. I was offered, by God, to be a part of His Life and I Submitted to His Invitation. But He did it all. He wants to do it for everyone. It's a Gift and only those who want to be with God will be with God.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
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#96
You make it seem that it is impossible to believe certain ways that are comparable to both without ever being taught about either person Arminian/Calvinism.

Who really cares about either one of these morons?

The Bible is very clear that my Salvation is absolutely nothing I have ever done. I was offered, by God, to be a part of His Life and I Submitted to His Invitation. But He did it all. He wants to do it for everyone. It's a Gift and only those who want to be with God will be with God.
“The Bible is very clear that my Salvation is absolutely nothing I have ever done. I was offered, by God, to be a part of His Life and I Submitted”.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#97
“The Bible is very clear that my Salvation is absolutely nothing I have ever done. I was offered, by God, to be a part of His Life and I Submitted”.
When discussing surrendering my will for God's during the stage of Regeneration by definition of Submission, is not something I am working to do by Accepting God but I am yielding to God. I am saying let Your Will be DONE by not resisting Him.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#98
Did everyone in this discussion get Saved the Billy Graham way, repeat after me, ok, you are Saved?

Because, that ain't how it happened when I accepted Christ and was filled with the Holy Spirit.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
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#99
When discussing surrendering my will for God's during the stage of Regeneration by definition of Submission, is not something I am working to do by Accepting God but I am yielding to God. I am saying let Your Will be DONE by not resisting Him.
You laid your will aside and took upon yourself God’s will, you yielded to God, you accepted God, you chose God… But wait, didn’t you say, “my salvation is absolutely nothing I’ve ever done”?

Don’t you see the contradiction?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Did everyone in this discussion get Saved the Billy Graham way, repeat after me, ok, you are Saved?

Because, that ain't how it happened when I accepted Christ and was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Not for me either .:) I realized at some point, oh no! I am becoming one of them .:giggle:

That was a few months before I surrendered more fully and got baptized .:D