50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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The seventh trumpet does NOT ***immediately*** herald the Second Advent. Where in the world did you ever get that idea?
It's common knowledge.



The 7th trump of Rev is the same last trump Paul speaks of because that's when the dead in Christ are raised along with his second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Here we have the second coming associated with a trumpet, and the dead in Christ rising, and the rapture.

Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


And here we have a trumpet called the last trump, and the dead in Christ being raised. This clearly is at the second coming as the other verse makes clear. The dead in Christ rise and Christ returns. So all we have to do is find out which trumpet Christ returns in:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here we have the end of the Tribulation, and the sounding of the last of the 7 trumps. Though not explicitly mentioned here, I think the language does highly imply Christ's second coming is at this time. The second coming is directly tied to the time for wrath:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


We see this wrath in greater detail here:


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

So, the "last trump" is the same as the last of the 7 trumpets of Revelation and it is when Christ returns, the dead in Christ rise and the rapture all take place.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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It's common knowledge.



The 7th trump of Rev is the same last trump Paul speaks of because that's when the dead in Christ are raised along with his second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Here we have the second coming associated with a trumpet, and the dead in Christ rising, and the rapture.

Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


And here we have a trumpet called the last trump, and the dead in Christ being raised. This clearly is at the second coming as the other verse makes clear. The dead in Christ rise and Christ returns. So all we have to do is find out which trumpet Christ returns in:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here we have the end of the Tribulation, and the sounding of the last of the 7 trumps. Though not explicitly mentioned here, I think the language does highly imply Christ's second coming is at this time. The second coming is directly tied to the time for wrath:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


We see this wrath in greater detail here:


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

So, the "last trump" is the same as the last of the 7 trumpets of Revelation and it is when Christ returns, the dead in Christ rise and the rapture all take place.
What you have conjured up there is typical post-tribber Biblical mythology.
Chopping and blending belong in the kitchen. But you don't create doctrine from it.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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What I posted proves the 7th trump is when the second coming happens. Even most pre-tribbers know that.


What you have conjured up there is typical post-tribber Biblical mythology.
Chopping and blending belong in the kitchen. But you don't create doctrine from it.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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What I posted proves the 7th trump is when the second coming happens. Even most pre-tribbers know that.
Au contraire. Astute Bible students are not prone to tearing out a few chapters to suit their whim the way you have done.

Those pushing false post-trib doctrine are usually very easily discovered. But pointing out a post-tribber tearing out a couple of chapters is a no-brainer.......even for me.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Au contraire. Astute Bible students are not prone to tearing out a few chapters to suit their whim the way you have done.
I did not do what you accuse me of. I properly used scripture to prove my point. You can't address that because it proves your position wrong so you resort to baseless accusations.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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It's common knowledge.



The 7th trump of Rev is the same last trump Paul speaks of because that's when the dead in Christ are raised along with his second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Here we have the second coming associated with a trumpet, and the dead in Christ rising, and the rapture.

Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


And here we have a trumpet called the last trump, and the dead in Christ being raised. This clearly is at the second coming as the other verse makes clear. The dead in Christ rise and Christ returns. So all we have to do is find out which trumpet Christ returns in:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here we have the end of the Tribulation, and the sounding of the last of the 7 trumps. Though not explicitly mentioned here, I think the language does highly imply Christ's second coming is at this time. The second coming is directly tied to the time for wrath:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


We see this wrath in greater detail here:


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

So, the "last trump" is the same as the last of the 7 trumpets of Revelation and it is when Christ returns, the dead in Christ rise and the rapture all take place.


That is so WRONG, and do you really know WHY? It is because you have never studied the Seven Feasts of ISRAEL, especially the Feast of Trumpets.

The "Last Trump" has absolute nothing to do with the Trumpet Judgements of Revelation. It literally is the Last note played in the Feast of Trumpets, and is held as long at the trumpeter has has breath, and is blown as very loudly. They have called it the Last Trump for almost 3000 years. YOU CAN LOOK THAT UP, that THEY do and have called it the LAST TRUMP.

 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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I did not do what you accuse me of. I properly used scripture to prove my point. You can't address that because it proves your position wrong so you resort to baseless accusations.
Trumpets five, six and seven are WOE trumpets of severe judgment. Not a happy time and not a happy place. With seven bowl judgments to go......you know the ones you ignored.

The seventh trumpet of Rev is definitely NOT the 1 Cor 15:52 & 1 Thes 4:16 trumpet of victorious joyful assembly.

You do err.....grievously.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Trumpets five, six and seven are WOE trumpets of severe judgment. Not a happy time and not a happy place. With seven bowl judgments to go......you know the ones you ignored.

The seventh trumpet of Rev is definitely NOT the 1 Cor 15:52 & 1 Thes 4:16 trumpet of victorious joyful assembly.

You do err.....grievously.
No, that's all you.
 
Oct 23, 2020
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Good question, but per 2 Thessalonians 2 I am convinced of a more pessimistic series of events. I believe there will be large-scale apostasy taking place in the church prior to the revealing of the anti-Christ. Of course this won't happen overnight, but I think apostasy will reach a critical mass, so to speak, where enough "salt and light" of the world will be removed to give way to moral and spiritual decay not seen since the days of Noah.

Wickedness filled the earth. I think it'll get bad, but not sure exactly what it'll look like. I think it's pretty bad now, but I imagine it'll be more like wickedness on steroids where every single last thought of people are abominations.
Ya. I hear you. i always feel that I have 2 or 3 endtime scenarios in play, and they
simply can't all be right....
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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I believe there will be large-scale apostasy taking place in the church prior to the revealing of the anti-Christ.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

How can an Apostasy happen before the "revealing" of the man of sin? Shouldn't he appear first, then cause the Apostasy to happen?
 
Oct 23, 2020
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You may recall what I'd put about "the four living creatures" in posts like at the following:

Post #168 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/twinkling-of-an-eye.184441/post-3927147



[then see especially the last line at bottom ;) ]
Clearly trying to dodge the question (I am assuming you are replying to me?)
Why the wink?

i think you need to front up and just say what you believe.

You keep hinting darkly that you know when the Lord returns, but when pressed, you become evasive.
So, again:

Date and time please
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
Good question, but per 2 Thessalonians 2 I am convinced of a more pessimistic series of events. I believe there will be large-scale apostasy taking place in the church prior to the revealing of the anti-Christ. Of course this won't happen overnight, but I think apostasy will reach a critical mass, so to speak, where enough "salt and light" of the world will be removed to give way to moral and spiritual decay not seen since the days of Noah.

Wickedness filled the earth. I think it'll get bad, but not sure exactly what it'll look like. I think it's pretty bad now, but I imagine it'll be more like wickedness on steroids where every single last thought of people are abominations.

Hi Runningman

Maybe it is really easy to understand. but I really doubt it.
I am sure in a random sample of Christians, there will be loads of different views, and multiple discrepancies within
individual camps of thought.

Just reading through Thessalonians, it is not at all clear to me whether Paul is referring to one or
separate comings of the Lord.
I think there are separate events he is referring to.
For instance his description of a false state of 'peace and safety' before the Lord's return
does not harmonize with Luke 21

25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

So it is entirely possible that he is talking about 2 different comings throughout Thessalonians.
The final coming of the Lord with his saints versus the coming of the Lord in judgment against Jerusalem

E.G.

1 Thessalonians
5 But
(in contrast to the Final coming) of the times and the seasons (regarding appointed times), brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (in the sense of judgment) so cometh as a thief in the night.(unexpectedly)3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; (Jerusalem is safe) then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

This passage would have to be read in a counter-intuitive way, in the sense that Paul applies the principle of the thief in the night, unexpected judgment, to Jerusalem, and by extension, not to the Church, as they have been filled in on this coming judgment.

Obviously Paul cannot blurt it out, as that would give it away to the Jerusalem contingent.
So he is saying:
"I don't need to write to you about judgment coming on Jerusalem, because you know when it is coming"
Hence
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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The seventh trumpet of Rev is definitely NOT the 1 Cor 15:52 & 1 Thes 4:16 trumpet of victorious joyful assembly.
Why are people unable to distinguish what is for salvation ("the last trump") and what is for damnation (the 7th trumpet)? The trouble is that when sound doctrine is presented, it is rejected out of hand by those who have no clue. It is about time that some said "I am clueless. I need to be a learner".
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

How can an Apostasy happen before the "revealing" of the man of sin? Shouldn't he appear first, then cause the Apostasy to happen?
Just going off 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the operative word being "first."

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Why are people unable to distinguish what is for salvation ("the last trump") and what is for damnation (the 7th trumpet)? The trouble is that when sound doctrine is presented, it is rejected out of hand by those who have no clue. It is about time that some said "I am clueless. I need to be a learner".
Yet for some, we need to be careful so as to not be too harsh.

1 Thes 5:14
"comfort the feebleminded"
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
8,957
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It's common knowledge.



The 7th trump of Rev is the same last trump Paul speaks of because that's when the dead in Christ are raised along with his second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Here we have the second coming associated with a trumpet, and the dead in Christ rising, and the rapture.

Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


And here we have a trumpet called the last trump, and the dead in Christ being raised. This clearly is at the second coming as the other verse makes clear. The dead in Christ rise and Christ returns. So all we have to do is find out which trumpet Christ returns in:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here we have the end of the Tribulation, and the sounding of the last of the 7 trumps. Though not explicitly mentioned here, I think the language does highly imply Christ's second coming is at this time. The second coming is directly tied to the time for wrath:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


We see this wrath in greater detail here:


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

So, the "last trump" is the same as the last of the 7 trumpets of Revelation and it is when Christ returns, the dead in Christ rise and the rapture all take place.
Rev 14

Factor in that gathering that happens DURING THE TRIB.

Hint....it is neither the rapture/main harvest or the second coming

The bible destroys most of mans doctrine
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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It may be that Hymenaeus and Philetus are at least some of the culprits of 2Thes 2:2.....

2 Tim 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Why are people unable to distinguish what is for salvation ("the last trump") and what is for damnation (the 7th trumpet)? The trouble is that when sound doctrine is presented, it is rejected out of hand by those who have no clue. It is about time that some said "I am clueless. I need to be a learner".
...and the third option.

Jesus voice is like a trumpet.