50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
Cool. No, Paul is not describing events that have already happened. The Antichrist, the last one, has not appeared yet nor has the Great Tribulation started nor have the two prophets been killed and lie dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days nor raise back to life and rise into the heavens. Preterism is literally scriptural terrorism.
No. You're wrong. Paul is not describing The Antichrist, the last one, who has not yet appeared nor the Great Tribulation.
This stuff you are making up is scriptural terrorism -literally!!! (whatever that means).

Hint: try discussion and argument
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
I think refusing to study scripture on its own terms, and labelling and pigeon-holing
any viewpoint one is at variance with, risks becoming "scriptural terrorism",
if it becomes a way to denigrate valid scriptural study, or worse,
a way to misrepresent valid scriptural study.

I think Preterism is such a dirty word that it is better to leave it out.
I am personally unfamiliar with their teachings so I have no idea on the
factuality of your comments.
Given though that people like Spurgeon and Sproul held Preterist views,
it seems to have become somewhat too easily besmirched.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,688
8,229
113
I think one follows the other?
Is this the first time in your life you've ever heard about the pre-trib Rapture doctrine? Just curious because of your statement......:confused:
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
I think Jesus appears in person twice to the Church. Once immediately after his resurrection, once at the wrap-up.
This is what Paul means by second appearance I think.

The expression 'Second Coming' just seems plain incorrect
as Jesus also comes back in judgment.
Obviously whenever he returns in judgment he is not physically appearing to those who look for him!

Once we understand the difference between appearance and coming,
then various confusing passages can be cleared up i think.
" hey Ben i am coming to get you. Where are you?"
I am in milton fl. Just inside the city limit sign..

"Ok, i will pick you up at 6. Meet me at that sign"

Picks him up and drives off the other way...never crosses the city limit sign.

Postrib adherent ..." He never entered the city, so he never went to milton. He only appeared....never came"

Hair splitting is poor exegesis.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,108
2,141
113
To provide a short synapsis of the contending views between commentators, so that the guests aren't as confused as the commentators...

Pre-trib view per order of events: rapture; tribulation/ wrath; return

Post-trib view per order of events; tribulation; return; rapture/wrath

Are these explanations precise, or am I misrepresented either view?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
To provide a short synapsis of the contending views between commentators, so that the guests aren't as confused as the commentators...

Pre-trib view per order of events: rapture; tribulation/ wrath; return

Post-trib view per order of events; tribulation; return; rapture/wrath

Are these explanations precise, or am I misrepresented either view?
I think there are some different flavors of pre-trib and post-trib, but that's pretty accurate as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
To provide a short synapsis of the contending views between commentators, so that the guests aren't as confused as the commentators...

Pre-trib view per order of events: rapture; tribulation/ wrath; return

Post-trib view per order of events; tribulation; return; rapture/wrath

Are these explanations precise, or am I misrepresented either view?
Postribs are mainly posttrib as well as post wrath.
Postribs have huge problems

They think the 2nd coming on white horses is the rapture.

Ridiculous when all verses are actually on the table.

That model you presented is imo " mid trib" /prewrath"....which is equally ridiculous.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,108
2,141
113
I think there are some different flavors of pre-trib and post-trib, but that's pretty accurate as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, various distinctions here and there, but I wanted to avoid extraneous detail... tho, I almost asked for insertions as to which terms the DOTL would apply but, if I thought about too long I would end up moving semi-colons around and adding more slashes and stuff
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
" hey Ben i am coming to get you. Where are you?"
I am in milton fl. Just inside the city limit sign..

"Ok, i will pick you up at 6. Meet me at that sign"

Picks him up and drives off the other way...never crosses the city limit sign.

Postrib adherent ..." He never entered the city, so he never went to milton. He only appeared....never came"

Hair splitting is poor exegesis.
I thought I'd blocked you. Must try harder.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,108
2,141
113
Postribs are mainly posttrib as well as post wrath.
Postribs have huge problems

They think the 2nd coming on white horses is the rapture.

Ridiculous when all verses are actually on the table.

That model you presented is imo " mid trib" /prewrath"....which is equally ridiculous.
That thought of mid-trib did come to mind as I was attempting to formulate the models, yep
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
To provide a short synapsis of the contending views between commentators, so that the guests aren't as confused as the commentators...

Pre-trib view per order of events: rapture; tribulation/ wrath; return

Post-trib view per order of events; tribulation; return; rapture/wrath

Are these explanations precise, or am I misrepresented either view?
I was going to fire off a joke about the synapses, but maybe the post-tribbers would be a bit slow on the uptake
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,688
8,229
113
I think refusing to study scripture on its own terms, and labelling and pigeon-holing
any viewpoint one is at variance with, risks becoming "scriptural terrorism",
if it becomes a way to denigrate valid scriptural study, or worse,
a way to misrepresent valid scriptural study.

I think Preterism is such a dirty word that it is better to leave it out.
I am personally unfamiliar with their teachings so I have no idea on the
factuality of your comments.
Given though that people like Spurgeon and Sproul held Preterist views,
it seems to have become somewhat too easily besmirched.
Spurgeon was a preterist you say?
No you've got that all wrong. He might've made some obscure comments which would make a person think he could be an amillenniallist. But even that is certainly debatable......
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,108
2,141
113
Happy Father's Day to ye' all... and if you're not a father,...well, get to work!
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
I thought I'd blocked you. Must try harder.
Maybe engage me concept for concept and see where that leads??

But hey, ignore is bliss. I use it all the time.
But everytime i do it is because they can not go toe to toe with me.
Concept vs concept is my goal.

Or to be clear....to be biblical...and make my opponent go against the word.

That is why pretribs have such an advantage.
Our verses MUST BE ommitted or reframed.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Postribs are mainly posttrib as well as post wrath.
Postribs have huge problems

They think the 2nd coming on white horses is the rapture.

Ridiculous when all verses are actually on the table.

That model you presented is imo " mid trib" /prewrath"....which is equally ridiculous.
Pre-trib has been debunked and I mean like really debunked. It's almost like beating the dead horse, but I participate in threads where I feel like I can help somehow.

There are major flaws with the ordering of the first resurrection and return of Christ that make pre-trib impossible.

You've seen enough scripture to decide on your own. I don't think there is much more that you can be shown that will convince you. Some people just can't see it.

What's most important is that you're trusting Christ's sacrifice to save you. In the end, that's all that really matters.

It just breaks my heart a little bit when I realize the possibility that many well-meaning Christians will enter the great tribulation, deceived by pre-trib, and possibly commit apostasy.

I think some people just won't believe they'll be here for the GT until they're already in it. I don't want you to lose your faith. Stay strong.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
I was going to fire off a joke about the synapses, but maybe the post-tribbers would be a bit slow on the uptake
Using more verses is the high ground.
And yes humor is a plus to make the back and forth lighter

Put downs are heaviness.