"a thousand" literal or symbolic?

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#41

satan has never been bound. so where would 1070 come in? Satan has been decieving the nations since adam and eve, not once has been been bound so he could no longer decieve the nations.
I could explain ''bound'' but I think we've been down that road a few times with ya bro. :p
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#42

satan has never been bound. so where would 1070 come in? Satan has been decieving the nations since adam and eve, not once has been been bound so he could no longer decieve the nations.
On the other hand, I'm a glutton for punishment. So I'll give it a try. :p

What was Satan bound from doing?

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
Satan was bound from deceiving the nations in to going in to this final battle.

Remember, bound just means restrained.

Remember Job?

Satan was bound from taking his life, even though he was totally active in other ways.

Satan really wants to gather the world for this final battle with God.

Well Satan was/is bound from doing that.

Ok, Christianity definitely spread big time for 1000 years. So during that time Satan was bound.

How could we explain the major push back against Christianity the last 1000+ years?

Maybe, he was released around 1070ad, and has been working toward that final battle?

It's a potential interpretation for those seeking a literal 1000 years.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
No the desolation in Dan 9 was the the city and temple destruction...refer to matthew 24
No the city being destroyed was by the people of the prince who is to come, Then the desolations occured.

“And after the sixty-two weeksMessiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to comeShall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

These things took over 30 years to ber accomplished. thus did not happen in the 70th week, impossible.

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

This occures AFTER the city is destroyed. And shows the city will be desolate until the war desolations are determined. Which again, is still happening today.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

The THEN shows that after all these things take place. HE (who is he) will confirm a covenant with many for 1 week (seven years) and in the middle of that week shall be the abomination.


Your timeline is off
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
Why and says who? Few prophetic books can be read in sequence. According to revelation the
earth was destroyed...then Jesus was born. And there are many more.
Because everything in dan 9 is in sequence.

1. 69 weeks until messiah the prince
2. After 69 weeks, messiah cut off and city and sanctuarty destroyed
3. Desolation until war desolations are determined.
4. THEN 1 week covenant confirmed
5. In the middle, abomination of desolation.
then consumation poured out on desolate
6. End of sin.

Matt 24.

1. city destroyed (not one brick left)
2. Birth pangs (many in number, but end is not yet) Wars and rumors of wars, kingdoms trample kingdoms, Major natural disasters, major droughts and hunger, major increase in disease and knowledge etc etc.
3. Abomination of desolation
4. Major tribulation throughout whole earth, such as never been seen before or after, ending with return of Christ. or else all mankind would cease to exist.

all in sequence, and makes total sense.
3.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46
On the other hand, I'm a glutton for punishment. So I'll give it a try. :p

What was Satan bound from doing?



Satan was bound from deceiving the nations in to going in to this final battle.

Remember, bound just means restrained.

Remember Job?

Satan was bound from taking his life, even though he was totally active in other ways.

Satan really wants to gather the world for this final battle with God.

Well Satan was/is bound from doing that.

Ok, Christianity definitely spread big time for 1000 years. So during that time Satan was bound.

How could we explain the major push back against Christianity the last 1000+ years?

Maybe, he was released around 1070ad, and has been working toward that final battle?

It's a potential interpretation for those seeking a literal 1000 years.
lol. No, it says satan was bound so he could not decieve the nations. It says after he is released, and starts a battle.. There is no reason to think he is only decieved from stopping the final battle. look at all the wars he has caused in the last 2000 years, and even today. ww2 was a great example. He was not stopped from doing that. also. the final battle, what is it over? where do the armies go against??
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#47
lol. No, it says satan was bound so he could not decieve the nations. It says after he is released, and starts a battle.. There is no reason to think he is only decieved from stopping the final battle. look at all the wars he has caused in the last 2000 years, and even today. ww2 was a great example. He was not stopped from doing that. also. the final battle, what is it over? where do the armies go against??
It says he is bound from deceiving the nations in to that final battle against God, not against all battles.

Just slow down and and listen to what is being said.

Satan was bound in Job from taking Job's life. He's bound in Rev 20 from deceiving the nations in to that one final battle against God.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#48
On the other hand, I'm a glutton for punishment. So I'll give it a try. :p

What was Satan bound from doing?



Satan was bound from deceiving the nations in to going in to this final battle.

Remember, bound just means restrained.

Remember Job?

Satan was bound from taking his life, even though he was totally active in other ways.

Satan really wants to gather the world for this final battle with God.

Well Satan was/is bound from doing that.

Ok, Christianity definitely spread big time for 1000 years. So during that time Satan was bound.

How could we explain the major push back against Christianity the last 1000+ years?

Maybe, he was released around 1070ad, and has been working toward that final battle?

It's a potential interpretation for those seeking a literal 1000 years.
yeah i always wondered about that.

notice that most people forget that after the 1000 years Satan is RELEASED and deceives the nations again. they don't say how long that lasts before the final battle and Judgement.
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#49
And what about ". A day to us is like a thousand years in the kingdom of heaven?"

I'm 42. How old does that make
Me in heaven?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#50
And what about ". A day to us is like a thousand years in the kingdom of heaven?"

I'm 42. How old does that make
Me in heaven?
according to my calculations you would be.....51,330 years old
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#51
The earth is approx 6000 years old the next 1000 satan will be bound making 7000 years. One day as a thousand years.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#52
Rev. 20:2-7. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a THOUSAND YEARS, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more till the THOUSAND YEARS should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a THOUSAND YEARS. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the THOUSAND YEARS were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a THOUSAND YEARS. And when the THOUSAND YEARS are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.

Now we know the above will come after the tribulation period. We know He tells us six times that it will be for a thousand years. Why is it so hard to just believe him.? Would we believe it if God would have said five hundred years.?
500 years was never used in the OT as a number which had another meaning other then it numerical value. The phrase "a thousand", or word "thousand" has meant something other it's numerical value. We are only recognizing that Revelation is written in a symbolic and apocalyptic fashion and John uses OT figurative language in his revelation. The very fact the rest of the bible doesn't teach a thousand year literal reign of Christ on EARTH, should raise a red flag to you. Thus, we are forced to search the Bible to understand it's meaning in other passages of the Bible.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,242
6,532
113
#53
Either, depending on the context it is written. By virtue of your asking the question, you must have seen it both ways.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#54

The problem is in your interpretation.

Daniel 9 already infers a gap. Messiah was cutt off AFTER 69 weeks, the city did not get destroyed for some 4 years later, which is well past the final one week period if you make the 70th week follow immediatly after the 69th week.

If there is already a 40 year gap, it is not a stretch to make it a few thousand year, or even longer than that
I'm assuming you meant 40 years. The whole point of the prophecy was to tell the Hebrews when the Christ was coming and when he will be crucified for the sins of the world as depicted Daniel 9 :24. Not when Jerusalem would be destroyed. After the 69th week, it puts in the 70th week, in which the "Messiah shall be cut off" which I believe to be His death on the cross. The next phase of the verse tells that only after Christ is crucified that the other prince will come to destroy the city, but no time frame is given for this. But Jesus himself predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the olivet discourse (Matt. 24) and also history tells there was 40 years between the cross and the destruction of the temple. (which I'm sure you think is future event as well) Thus this is only reason why I can inject a 40 gap between Christ and the destruction of the city. IMO, verse 26 talks of 2 different and separate events.

There is no eschatolgical system that doesn't have its flaws, and I'll apply that to mine as well.

For a fair and balanced work on Daniel comparing the 2 schools of thought, please check out my father's work, he was a pastor/ minister of the faith, and started out dispensational but became Amillennial after conducting his own study: Interpretations of the Visions of Daniel
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
It says he is bound from deceiving the nations in to that final battle against God, not against all battles.

Just slow down and and listen to what is being said.

Satan was bound in Job from taking Job's life. He's bound in Rev 20 from deceiving the nations in to that one final battle against God.
sorry that is a stretch,

so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

It says no more. which means he was decieving them before he was bound. If it spoke of only the final battle, it would not say any more.

Yes it says after he is released he gathers nations and goes to battle one last time, It would be evident, He knows his end is near, he knows revelation probably better than both of us, and knows what is going on, he is decieved himself.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
I'm assuming you meant 40 years. The whole point of the prophecy was to tell the Hebrews when the Christ was coming and when he will be crucified for the sins of the world as depicted Daniel 9 :24.
No, The whole point was God answering daniels prayer concerning his people and the holy city. Try reading context. Daniel did not pray for his sins to be forgiven or anyone elses, he prayed for God to spare his people and his city. The answer was in response to that.

“Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,

It had nothing to do with the death of Christ, it had to do with Daniels people doing what Daniel prayed for, turning from their sin, and God remembering his covenant with his people an dhis city.

I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers,Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Not to mention, If Christ was the fulfillment and his death, he would have been cut off at the end of the 70th week. NOT THE 69TH WEEK/.


Not when Jerusalem would be destroyed. After the 69th week, it puts in the 70th week, in which the "Messiah shall be cut off" which I believe to be His death on the cross.
It says at the end of 69 weeks. The 69th week literally ended the time Jesus entered the city on the donkey, as prophesied. That is why Jesus said if they only knew they day this was. Even he knew this was the end of the 69th week, When messiah the prince would be introduced. he is cut off or killed exactly 1 literal week later.

which means for the 70th week to literally be fulfilled according to Daniel., ALL that Gabriel said would have had to happen within 7 years of his death, Yet as we both know, the start of it (the destruction) did not happen for 30 some years later, not to mention the rest which Gabriel said would happen.

The next phase of the verse tells that only after Christ is crucified that the other prince will come to destroy the city, but no time frame is given for this.
it all falls within the 70 weeks, the 70 eeks would be fulfilled when daniels people and holy city are restored to what God had intended it to be,. Your twisting things.


But Jesus himself predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the olivet discourse (Matt. 24) and also history tells there was 40 years between the cross and the destruction of the temple. (which I'm sure you think is future event as well) Thus this is only reason why I can inject a 40 gap between Christ and the destruction of the city. IMO, verse 26 talks of 2 different and separate events.
yes, and in matt 24, Jesus also talks af the wars and rumors of wars, the desolations, the abomination, and the great tribulation, which will end with his return, which would mark the end of the 70 weeks, because it owuld be then that daniels holy city is restored, and his people are again following their God.

There is no eschatolgical system that doesn't have its flaws, and I'll apply that to mine as well.

For a fair and balanced work on Daniel comparing the 2 schools of thought, please check out my father's work, he was a pastor/ minister of the faith, and started out dispensational but became Amillennial after conducting his own study: Interpretations of the Visions of Daniel
I have read many books on the subject, and have changed my view also. Only not to amillenial, as it does not make sense, and I believe to be the weekest of all prophetic views.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#57
which part of the first 20 verses did you miss? the whole prayer was to have sins forgiven
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
102
63
#58
In Genesis God created everything in 6 days and on the 7 day he rested . 6 is the number of man. God has given man 6 thousand years on earth to get things done. Then he will come and we will have peace with him for 1 thousand years. 7 is the number of completion and rest.

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#59
There are other promises as our redemption
which is told to be complete...looking for a consummation in the future.

Dan 9:27 shows nothing lacking and a fulfilled 70th week
and spells out a determined time for the consummation for desolation.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#60
No, The whole point was God answering daniels prayer concerning his people and the holy city. Try reading context. Daniel did not pray for his sins to be forgiven or anyone elses, he prayed for God to spare his people and his city. The answer was in response to that.

“Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
And who are His people and where is His city? The NT answers that! The Church!

Roman 8:16 - Those in Christ are children of God
16 The Spirit Himself [thus] testifies together with our own spirit, [assuring us] that we are children of God.

Ephesians 2:19 - We are the hold hold of God
19 Therefore you are no longer outsiders (exiles, migrants, and aliens, excluded from the rights of citizens), but you now share citizenship with the saints (God’s own people, consecrated and set apart for Himself); and you belong to God’s [own] household.

Galatians 3:7 - We are the children of Abraham
7 Know and understand that it is [really] the people [who live] by faith who are [the true] sons of Abraham.

Galatians 3:29 - We are Abraham's SEED
29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 3:29 - We are heirs according to the promise (what promise - the one given to Abraham)
29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 9:8 We are Children of the Promise
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Galatians 4:28
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

Titus 2:14 - We are People of His own
14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

1 Peter 2:9
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Exodus 19:5-6 (Notice where Peter gets this holy people and holy nation from!!!)
5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

Galations 6:15-16 - We are the Children of Israel (Spiritual Israel)
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
Blessing and a Plea

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, (who is them? Those in Christ) and upon the Israel of God.

Colossians 3:12 - We are the elect of God
12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

Romans 8:17 - We are the heirs of God
17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

John 1:12 - We are sons of God
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

1 Corinthians 3:16 - We are the temple of God
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Philippians 3:3 - We are the circumcision
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,

1 Peter 2:9 - We are the chosen Generation
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

1 Peter 2:9 - We are a royal priesthood
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Christ's Kingdom has been inaugurated now and will be finalized in His 2nd coming. At which point He'll hand everything back over to the Father because there won't a need for the gospel of Christ to preach in the eternal state. This not a kingdom you can see with the naked eye. John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” (it's Spiritual)...

John 6:15
15 So Jesus, perceiving that they were intending to come and take Him by force to make Him king, withdrew again to the mountain by Himself alone. Jesus doesn't want to be a king in the natural world, that's why he withdrew. God never offered a Kingdom to the Jews to His only special people, it was always meant for those who love him and obey him, OT Saints and NT Saints.

1 Peter 2:9 - We are a holy nation (in Christ, we are the anti-type of what natural Israel was)
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

James 2:5 - We are the heirs of the Kingdom
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

Revelation 1:6 - We are kings and priest unto God
6 (Christ) and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 3:12 - We are in the Temple now, the temple represents Christ.
12 He who overcomes (overcomes what? the persecutions of the Jews and Roman authorities, our application? the world), I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.


Revelation 3:12 - We have the name of God written on us
12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.


Revelation 3:12 - We have the name of the city of God, the NEW JERUSALEM
12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.


We are the temple of God
Psalms 27:4
4 One thing I have asked from the Lord, that I shall seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the Lord
And to meditate in His temple.



Revelation 3:12
Zechariah 6:15
1 Corinthians 3:16
1 Corinthians 6:19
2 Corinthians 6:16

Hebrews 4:9 - We are People of God
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

Hebrews 12:22 - We have come to the Mount Zion of God

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,


Hebrews 12:22 - We have come to the City of the living God
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Hebrews 12:22 - We have come to the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM (now, presently)
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Hebrews 12:22 - Right now, we are in the presence of angels
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

The problem is that you don't recognize that God always had one people! This is the mystery that is still a mystery to you. As long as you hold to a
alternate plan of God for the natural Jew you will never see how prophecy comes together and points to Christ.
 
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