Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts of the Spirit?

[coconut]

Maybe you missed this the first time. What I don't believe is people who claim to have the same power and authority today that God granted to His chosen apostles and prophets of old at the onset of establishing Christ's church. Those who make such claims are not called by God to do anything. They are deceiving themselves .... and the innocents who follow them. Do you understand this ?? I know they don't like hearing people like me telling them so. Let me put your mind to rest. They're not listening anyways. They have people like you telling them that what they're doing is okay. They "know" they have the spirit and can prove it. Many speak in a "heavenly gibberish" and call it tongues. Continue to encourage this bogus and immature nonsense all you like. You are the one responsible for that. I'll call it what it is.

'Those who make such claims are not called by God to do anything'. Your words. Are you going to say that God never called any of them to his Son for salvation or to give them rest? They use the same scriptures to defend their position as you do your position. If they were under the wrong impression concerning their position do we exclude them from the church and denigrate them as having no purpose or calling in the plan of God? Perhaps God has used this group to rub Christian like you in the wrong way so that you will grow up in Christ. If God can use the unbelief of Israel to have mercy and bring salvation to the Gentiles maybe you can learn to receive mercy through the misunderstanding of these groups you seem to despise in your heart. But if you think of yourself as having a greater maturity then these groups because of how they believe, has God called you to expose them or to perhaps feed them with milk if that is all they can receive? If they are saved by grace through the Lord Jesus Christ, they are members of Christ's body which you are a part. To exclude them who belong to Christ is to exclude Christ who redeemed them through his blood. Is that what you want to do by exposing them or do you want to reveal how foolish they are so you can embarrass and shame them back into the truth?

 

[zone]

You don't want the gifts operating in the local church because that might threaten your understanding and God only knows you can't have or be around that stuff.

i don't want what passes today as "gifts operating"
you're welcome to it.

You don't want to deal with the issues that involve details and the gifts of the Spirit in the local church.

i have dealt with it.

The Ultimate Cessationism Resource
Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource < click

I am not interested in dead orthodoxy

ring the bell

cold...dead...orthodoxy.

question though:

how can orthodoxy be dead?

The word orthodox, from Greek orthos ("right", "true", "straight") + doxa ("opinion" or "belief", related to dokein, "to think")

or in a ministry that thinks they have it right without the life of the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead.

any group or person without "the life of the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead" isn't Christian...is it.

John 3
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

what you really mean to say is, you're not interested in any any ministry that isn't Pentecostal or Charismatic.
i get it. ...don't worry....you're in the majority.

I have been there and done that and it is dead but has all the right doctrine in their mind..

oh....k.
uh-huh.
i'll stay sober minded and able to think rather than be entertained or dulled by sensationalism.
done it...seen it...see the effects of it daily.

result? biblical illiteracy and immaturity.
easy prey for false teachers; downgrading of everything God already gave us.
etc etc

If we can't put God's word into action by faith what good are we.

what are you talking about?
my church does. we don't need gurgling or falling over drunk or laughing to do it.

If we can't be filled with the Spirit, what good are we. If we can't be quickened by the Spirit and be energized with the life of God, what good are we, we're like dead fish out of water, lifeless. Some people just don't like being challenged because of their intellect and that is unfortunate.

what blah blah.
all the same buzzwords to justify ungodly unbiblical stuff.
i've had hands laid on me and "fell out" with the unholy laughter thing.
drunk in the spirit thing.
listened to people gibbering like pagans.
listened to some guy yelling from a stage about anointings and warfare and it's all about us.

don't assume you know the first thing about being challenged.
you're the one who is in trouble, not me.

been there done it.
and it turns out it was for my good that the Lord allowed it.
i know what it is, and have managed to help a few get free from it.


k...ttyl.
bye then

 

[zone]

do you know or have any idea what dead orthodoxy is?

please explain it.
provide examples.

They just might need to be challenged in the light just like we all are from time to time and hopefully more often than not.

challenge away.

 

[zone]

Maybe you missed this the first time. What I don't believe is people who claim to have the same power and authority today that God granted to His chosen apostles and prophets of old at the onset of establishing Christ's church. Those who make such claims are not called by God to do anything. They are deceiving themselves .... and the innocents who follow them. Do you understand this ?? I know they don't like hearing people like me telling them so. Let me put your mind to rest. They're not listening anyways. They have people like you telling them that what they're doing is okay. They "know" they have the spirit and can prove it. Many speak in a "heavenly gibberish" and call it tongues. Continue to encourage this bogus and immature nonsense all you like. You are the one responsible for that. I'll call it what it is.

hopefully we're going to get a lesson on what dead orthodoxy is.
yawn

 

[zone]

It's pretty interesting that many say certain gifts do not happen because people do not believe.
Romans 11:29 says Gods gifts are irrevocable. So gifts never ceased because people didn't believe.

well that's our two-tiered elitism.

i would be a cold dead orthodox carnal christian (or something like that); whereas the tonguetalkers or whatever would be the willing faith-filled overcomer Spirit-walkers.

Romans 8 says nothing of the kind...but anyways.

 

[zone]

'Those who make such claims are not called by God to do anything'. Your words. Are you going to say that God never called any of them to his Son for salvation or to give them rest? They use the same scriptures to defend their position as you do your position. If they were under the wrong impression concerning their position do we exclude them from the church and denigrate them as having no purpose or calling in the plan of God? Perhaps God has used this group to rub Christian like you in the wrong way so that you will grow up in Christ. If God can use the unbelief of Israel to have mercy and bring salvation to the Gentiles maybe you can learn to receive mercy through the misunderstanding of these groups you seem to despise in your heart. But if you think of yourself as having a greater maturity then these groups because of how they believe, has God called you to expose them or to perhaps feed them with milk if that is all they can receive? If they are saved by grace through the Lord Jesus Christ, they are members of Christ's body which you are a part. To exclude them who belong to Christ is to exclude Christ who redeemed them through his blood. Is that what you want to do by exposing them or do you want to reveal how foolish they are so you can embarrass and shame them back into the truth?

hello Red.

 

[unclefester]

'Those who make such claims are not called by God to do anything'. Your words. Are you going to say that God never called any of them to his Son for salvation or to give them rest? They use the same scriptures to defend their position as you do your position. If they were under the wrong impression concerning their position do we exclude them from the church and denigrate them as having no purpose or calling in the plan of God? Perhaps God has used this group to rub Christian like you in the wrong way so that you will grow up in Christ. If God can use the unbelief of Israel to have mercy and bring salvation to the Gentiles maybe you can learn to receive mercy through the misunderstanding of these groups you seem to despise in your heart. But if you think of yourself as having a greater maturity then these groups because of how they believe, has God called you to expose them or to perhaps feed them with milk if that is all they can receive? If they are saved by grace through the Lord Jesus Christ, they are members of Christ's body which you are a part. To exclude them who belong to Christ is to exclude Christ who redeemed them through his blood. Is that what you want to do by exposing them or do you want to reveal how foolish they are so you can embarrass and shame them back into the truth?

Quickly, before I leave for work Red (you are Red33, are you not ? ). What does God using the unbelief of Israel to bring salvation to the gentiles have to do with today's "ecstatic utterings" which are not the work of God's Holy Spirit ? I'll respond further when time permits .... likely this evening.

 

[zone]

Quickly, before I leave for work Red (you are Red33, are you not ? ). What does God using the unbelief of Israel to bring salvation to the gentiles have to do with today's "ecstatic utterings" which are not the work of God's Holy Spirit ? I'll respond further when time permits .... likely this evening.

have a good day Uncle.
zone.

 

[coconut]

Quickly, before I leave for work Red (you are Red33, are you not ? ). What does God using the unbelief of Israel to bring salvation to the gentiles have to do with today's "ecstatic utterings" which are not the work of God's Holy Spirit ? I'll respond further when time permits .... likely this evening.

Those "ecstatic utterings" must have been some form of unbelief concerning the truth on their part don't you think? If it was not unbelief of the truth or a denial thereof (in your mind), then you would have no basis not to adhere to it and support it, right? You can denigrate the Pentecostals and Charismatics all you want, but if God uses them to shame and stir up the dead orthodoxy that characterizes many of the denominations of Christianity, then glory to God for his creativity and faithfulness to do his work of reconciliation of believers. However, humility has to be involved somewhere along the line for grace to take place.

 

[zone]

Those "ecstatic utterings" must have been some form of unbelief concerning the truth on their part don't you think? If it was not unbelief of the truth or a denial thereof (in your mind), then you would have no basis not to adhere to it and support it, right? You can denigrate the Pentecostals and Charismatics all you want, but if God uses them to shame and stir up the dead orthodoxy that characterizes many of the denominations of Christianity, then glory to God for his creativity and faithfulness to do his work of reconciliation of believers. However, humility has to be involved somewhere along the line for grace to take place.

that's quite a theory.

 

[coconut]

i don't want what passes today as "gifts operating"
you're welcome to it.

I have tried to get you to tell us what these gifts are that operate in the church and you just generalize it and do your best to suppress it, not exactly edifying. You have the scriptures and there are many gifts mentioned but you seem to disregard all of them and the body members who may have been given them.

i have dealt with it.

The Ultimate Cessationism Resource
Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource < click



ring the bell

cold...dead...orthodoxy.

question though:

how can orthodoxy be dead?

The word orthodox, from Greek orthos ("right", "true", "straight") + doxa ("opinion" or "belief", related to dokein, "to think")

The letter with the Spirit of life being suppressed in 2 Corinthians 3:6, Rom 7:6 & 8:8-11 and let's not forget John 6:63

any group or person without "the life of the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead" isn't Christian...is it.

I believe that there are many born again Christians throughout the world that are dead in their backslidden state and dead through the letter of the law, which would also include the letter of the New Testament, hence dead orthodoxy.

John 3
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

what you really mean to say is, you're not interested in any any ministry that isn't Pentecostal or Charismatic.
i get it. ...don't worry....you're in the majority.

I am neither Pentecostal or Charismatic and have no leanings to either. I like Billy Graham, Rex Humbard, Jerry Falwell, Vernon McGee, Clarence Larkin and many others that you are probably revolted by.

oh....k.
uh-huh.
i'll stay sober minded and able to think rather than be entertained or dulled by sensationalism.
done it...seen it...see the effects of it daily.

Many of those you charge with sensationalisnm follow the word in a measure, preach the gospel and love the Lord Jesus Christ. Are you going to reject them for that?

result? biblical illiteracy and immaturity.
easy prey for false teachers; downgrading of everything God already gave us.
etc etc

I wouldn't balk too much if I were, you seem to have some strange beliefs that you adhere to, but you can hold on to them if you want.

what are you talking about?
my church does. we don't need gurgling or falling over drunk or laughing to do it.

I am not advocating any of that and hope that your Lutheran church is not part of that dead orthodoxy that loves to judge other based upon the letter of the law because the Spirit of grace and love has been quenched.

what blah blah.
all the same buzzwords to justify ungodly unbiblical stuff.
i've had hands laid on me and "fell out" with the unholy laughter thing.
drunk in the spirit thing.
listened to people gibbering like pagans.
listened to some guy yelling from a stage about anointings and warfare and it's all about us.

Not an advocate and they need help, not criticism.

don't assume you know the first thing about being challenged.
you're the one who is in trouble, not me.

I hope it's me and not you, but I have my doubts.

been there done it.
and it turns out it was for my good that the Lord allowed it.
i know what it is, and have managed to help a few get free from it.

Good, but to have a balance and to keep from having a critical spirit is good wisdom and filling others with hope.

k...ttyl.
bye then

bye, bye
chip off the same block

 

[Elizabeth619]

Red33? I remember him. He is the one who harrassed another member for weeks. Followed her from thread to thread, and created alot of problems. He was rude, hateful, and belligerant. Maybe I should ignore this name too.

 

[homwardbound]

I acknowledge, confess and declare that Jesus is the Son of God who has come in the flesh. He is the Christ and has died for my sins. All authority in heaven and earth has been given to Jesus. Salvation is found in no one else.

Now, I ask you dear brother: Who could be leading me? And how?

Good to have a brother in Christ I confess the same and he is my way to the Father and have been delivered by the reusurrection of christ me being raissed back to lkife as he was rasied, where I can trust him to sort all things out for me to know or not know as Father chooses not man or this world and it decieving ways

 

[homwardbound]

It doesn't matter if Christians have a building to gather to worship or they worship in a corn field. You seem to think that people feel the church is an actual building. The building is nothing more than a shelter over your head.
You talk down to zone about attending services in a building, and to others who do the same yet say no congregation is 100% right so why are you judging what others choose to do or where they choose to worship? If no one is right then you are in that category as well.
You talk about division in the church, but isn't refusing to assemble with others causing division as well? You are intentionally segregating yourself from other Christians

The bible does not give the guidelines on how or where to worship, and certainly doesn't condemn gathering in buildings for worship. It never gives a specific location or the the size of the location of where to worship either. What it does say is what is to take place in the meetings (Hebrews 10, Colossians 3)

Acts 5:42

And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ

You have misinterpreted I am not condeming anyone nor am I saying not to go here or there but what I am saying is there are to be no divisions amnong all that beleive but there are and I am saying there is only one true Church
[h=3]Hebrews 8[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]The New Priestly Service[/h]8 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, [SUP]2 [/SUP]a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; [SUP]5 [/SUP]who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

1 Corinthians 3:3
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
And I love you all to come to peace with one mind one lord, one Faith and hel[p one another unto the Spirit og God which is LOVE best described in 1 Cor 13

 

[homwardbound]

Christ Jesus Yashua Ha'masiach
i follow them but God has put me in this church is what i was stating its all God man and when God tells me to leave i will well i will be in august God provided for me to go to bible colledge

i am greatful to you seeking out truth and putting God before all men, and yes God places each of us in certain places in order to grow up in him like a mighty Oak tree that was a small nut that stood its ground in Christ this is where I stand as well.
Good travels in cemetary, I mean seminary Brother, and just sift all things through your new heart in God and God will teach you error form truth and youwill be free no matter where you go, because wherever you go you will be following Christ by the hidden man of your heart

 

[JaumeJ]

To everyone, the teaching of having no divisions is applying to everyone. The only manner in which to be in perfect harmony is learning from the Master, the Rabbi, the Teacher, the Savior, the Lord, Yeshua, Jesus, you all know. Try arguing points He teaches, and you will find yourselves more in sync, meanwhile, if you have ideas from your own meditation and prayers, and Yahweh has not empowered you with His pursuasion on others, keep your special understanding to yourselves until He gives you that pursuasiveness or does not. It is win win, you have a nugget of wisdom all for you!

 

[homwardbound]

to whom are you an "ambassador representing the love, Joy , peace and righteousness found in the Holy Ghost"?
and to whom are you accountable?
anyone?

Sounds as if your offended, no intention of offense I do not fight carnally and I do not fight I only express scripture and what I have learned as I have grown in thie amazing grace given to me by God
I am accountable to Father via Christ and his finished work completed in and by the croos where all beleivbers have everything they need for life anf Godliness.

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts of the Spirit?

do you know the answer to this home?

I have answered this the gifts will never cease for God will never cease and God is Love Sister beyond this worlds understanding and only in the new Spirit of life provided at the cross the ressurection can one recieve this type of Love best described in 1 cor 13. Flesh does not know this nor can recieve this typeit is unnatural and we are called to die to sin (flesh) and be raised from the dead in the Spirit of God.
Again God never will cease and wiull use the Gifts as God wills not man.

 

[homwardbound]

you'd be really surprised home
about love.

.....

what does me answering about CHURCH, the Lord's Church, the Lord's flock and the shepherds he placed over them have to do with me loving others (or others loving me)?

what part of this didn't you like:

"well, we don't make a point of gathering with other denominations to share ideas.

we know what the other denominations believe.

we do missions and outreach with all kinds of people, and other denominations - provided it doesn't require us to do anything which goes against our convictions - for example....activism for ordination of gays in ministry. no...we don't come together over things like that.

as for community service, individuals do that as they are led.
avenues for service are posted at the church.

our church exists for the SHEEP first.
for care and feeding of Christ's sheep.

i know that sounds opposed to what you may have been taught."

.....

was it this part?

our church exists for the SHEEP first.
for care and feeding of Christ's sheep.

John 21
Jesus and Peter
15When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” 16He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” 17He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep..."

boskó: to feed
Original Word: βόσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: boskó
Phonetic Spelling: (bos'-ko)
Short Definition: I feed
Definition: I feed, pasture.

1006 bóskō – properly, feed (graze); (figuratively) spiritually nourish by feeding people the Word of God (Jn 21:15,17). While 4166 (poimḗn) focuses on "shepherding" the flock of God (caring for them), 1006 (bóskō) stresses feeding them His Word.

poimainó: to act as a shepherd
Original Word: ποιμαίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: poimainó
Phonetic Spelling: (poy-mah'-ee-no)
Short Definition: I shepherd, tend
Definition: I shepherd, tend, herd; hence: I rule, govern.

Cognate: 4165 poimaínō – properly, to shepherd, caring for (protecting) the flock.

4165 /poimaínō ("shepherding, pastoring") is distinct from "feeding" (1006 /bóskō). 4165 (poimaínō) focuses on "tending" ("shepherding") (WS, 274), which includes guarding, guiding, and folding the flock and is only provided (ultimately) by Jesus Christ – the Shepherd, who calls under-shepherds (such as elder-overseers) to guard and guide His people by His direction (1 Pet 5:1-5). See 4166 (poimēn).

[4165 /poimaínō ("to shepherd, tend") occurs 11 times in the NT, usually with a figurative sense of "shepherding (tending) God's flock." This provides Spirit-directed guidance (care) conjunction with feeding His people (teaching them Scripture).]

Just simply answered the ? and you answered thank you

 

[homwardbound]

okay...so if you wouldn't believe someone who came and said "home, God told me to tell you something"...does that mean you think the person is

a) lying
b) deluded
c) deceived
d) well intentioned but misguided

and, does it matter?
if so, what on earth are you on my case for?

Tell me why are you taking offense? I am not on your case I am only stating what is pout on my heart not my flesh