Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[kennethcadwell]

I am not talking about just one man. I am talking about the tons of biblical scholars who have followed the same teachings and studies for the past 1,000 years or so that were given to the apostles by Jesus Christ. Now though you have all these new philosophies coming out that most are not even 100 years old, or even 20 years old trying to refute the original teachings as wrong.

For instance the many who use displacement theories, or misplacement theories. Quoting scriptures in bible as they don't apply any more ( when they do ), events have taken place already ( when they haven't ), or using only part of scriptures or canceling out others that were said ( Going by only part of what Jesus said to do ).

I do not know any Scholars who have studied anything for 1000's of years and why should Creations be so concerned about Jewish law that we need to go to Jewish experts to determine anything? Are Jews more in touch with the bible than Christians? I don't think so.

 

[danschance]

Since christianity is rooted in judaism, i see nothing wrong with returning to our roots

Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:62

 

[Hizikyah]

Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:62

Nothing like using a verse out of context.

Luke 9:57-62, "Then as they went along the way, a certain man said to Him; Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go. But Yahshua said to him: Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head. Then He said to another; Follow Me. But he said; Teacher, first apermit me to go and bury my father. Yahshua said to him: Let the dead bury their dead; but you go and preach the Kingdom of Yahweh. And another also said; Teacher, I will follow You, but first let me go and bid farewell to those of my family who are at my house. And Yahshua said to him: No man who puts his hand to the plow, then looks back, is fit for the Kingdom of Yahweh."

 

[danschance]

Nothing like using a verse out of context.

Luke 9:57-62, "Then as they went along the way, a certain man said to Him; Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go. But Yahshua said to him: Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head. Then He said to another; Follow Me. But he said; Teacher, first apermit me to go and bury my father. Yahshua said to him: Let the dead bury their dead; but you go and preach the Kingdom of Yahweh. And another also said; Teacher, I will follow You, but first let me go and bid farewell to those of my family who are at my house. And Yahshua said to him: No man who puts his hand to the plow, then looks back, is fit for the Kingdom of Yahweh."

The verse I posted is fitting. He wants to seek out advice from Jews on Jewish law. We look back? Why not look forward and keep our eyes on the prize and fall down into a rabbit hole. Our goal is not to seek out rabbis on how to be better Christians.

 

[Dude653]

Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:62

That scripture is completely irrelevant to this topic.

 

[Hizikyah]

The verse I posted is fitting. He wants to seek out advice from Jews on Jewish law. We look back? Why not look forward and keep our eyes on the prize and fall down into a rabbit hole.

Where does it say that? Can you underline it for me?

 

[danschance]

Where does it say that? Can you underline it for me?

He wants to seek out advice from Rabbis on how to be a better Christian. If you can't see how that is looking back, then it is not my problem at all.

 

[Hizikyah]

He wants to seek out advice from Rabbis on how to be a better Christian. If you can't see how that is looking back, then it is not my problem at all.

All you have to do is underline where this passage says that. Please.

Luke 9:57-62, "Then as they went along the way, a certain man said to Him; Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go. But Yahshua said to him: Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head. Then He said to another; Follow Me. But he said; Teacher, first permit me to go and bury my father. Yahshua said to him: Let the dead bury their dead; but you go and preach the Kingdom of Yahweh. And another also said; Teacher, I will follow You, but first let me go and bid farewell to those of my family who are at my house. And Yahshua said to him: No man who puts his hand to the plow, then looks back, is fit for the Kingdom of Yahweh."

 

[Dude653]

well there man by the name of Jesus Christ, who just happened to be be a jew.....

 

[RedTent]

He wants to seek out advice from Rabbis on how to be a better Christian. If you can't see how that is looking back, then it is not my problem at all.

And if you can't see such things as that Christ and the Father are one, that knowing the Father well is knowing Christ well, or any of how Christ and the Father are related, then THAT is a problem you have. Rabbis had only scripture from the Father, and what they told of the Son. Their problem was the same as the one we have now, they didn't understand what scripture said about the first coming so assumed too much, just as we are doing about the second coming.

 

[RedTent]

well there man by the name of Jesus Christ, who just happened to be be a jew.....

From reading these posts I have learned that when God spoke to the Jews it was only for them, we aren't included. This is God's Son, do you think we are included when the Son speaks? If we are, maybe we should go back and see what Moses says?

 

[danschance]

well there man by the name of Jesus Christ, who just happened to be be a jew.....

Has anyone here denied Jesus was a Jew? Why is this bantered about so flippantly? Eeveryone her knows and understands that Jesus was born and raised as a Jew.

 

[JGIG]

I am comparing the HRM with most of the other churches and you answer to that is "finger pointing" "snobbery" "looking down nose". My post was to show that HRM was not about using law for salvation at all. And your post is for what purpose? To label me?

You pontificate as though there is no sin in the Law camp.

In my capacity as JGIG, I get so many emails from families and friendships that are broken because of the HRMer's devolving character and inability to live with other people who are not 'like-minded'.

Spiritual pride, anger, paranoia, adultery, drunkenness, laziness (willful unemployment because they refuse to work during Sabbath hours) . . .

One email I received told of a of family whose patriarch conned a Christian family into taking them all in because he 'couldn't find work'. After over a year of housing these folks, the Christian family finally had to ask them to leave because of the unrest in the household. The HRM husband had turned down several jobs and lost a couple of others because of his bad attitude. The constant self-righteous attitudes in the Law-keepers along with the constant conflict between the children and differences in child discipline issues (each family had several children, and the HRMers were very harsh with their children) and having Grace and Law trying to live in one house just didn't fly.

I've heard of other, similar situations, often with the HRMers taking advantage of family members to enable their Torah life-style (read moochers who could not stay employed or would not take jobs because of their Sabbath beliefs), and making those around them miserable in the process.

Note that it is the Christians who take in the HRMers to minister love to them.

Are all HRMers like that? No. But don't act like there is not sin in the HRM camp and there is only sin in the Church.

People sin under Law; people sin under Grace. People under Grace sin LESS because Grace teaches them to say no to ungodliness; Law only shows people what sin is - it has no power to help them not to sin.

Your choice.

I choose Grace.

-JGIG

 

[RedTent]

Has anyone here denied Jesus was a Jew? Why is this bantered about so flippantly? Eeveryone her knows and understands that Jesus was born and raised as a Jew.

But many have no idea how God looks at the Jews, they don't read what the book of Romans says about that race, they don't know how to relate to them, they don't know the history of them as the bible shows us and as history since Christ has shown us, they don't know how God sees our similarities and our differences, so we repeat to you guys, Jesus was a Jew.

 

[Zinzerio]

Has anyone here denied Jesus was a Jew? Why is this bantered about so flippantly? Eeveryone her knows and understands that Jesus was born and raised as a Jew.

Jesus became a Jew to love the Jews and to show the Jews his love,.... there ya go. he was not born a Jew because he favored the Jews.. he came for sinners to call them into repentance.. and the Jew being circumcised in the old testament was to show god that they wanted to be obedient and to show there other fellow believers that they where serious about the faith.. just like in the new testament you show your brothers and god your faith by being baptized..

and about why women where not circumcised was because women where considered less defiling then men and because they could not be circumcised that is why we had baptism for both genders circumcision never saved like baptism.. circumcision was just for the male Jews to show there faith and also so the women could know they where not defiling animals or from another religion ie they where a Jew. God bless

 

[RedTent]

You pontificate as though there is no sin in the Law camp.

In my capacity as JGIG, I get so many emails from families and friendships that are broken because of the HRMer's devolving character and inability to live with other people who are not 'like-minded'.

Spiritual pride, anger, paranoia, adultery, drunkenness, laziness (willful unemployment because they refuse to work during Sabbath hours) . . .

One email I received told of a of family whose patriarch conned a Christian family into taking them all in because he 'couldn't find work'. After over a year of housing these folks, the Christian family finally had to ask them to leave because of the unrest in the household. The HRM husband had turned down several jobs and lost a couple of others because of his bad attitude. The constant self-righteous attitudes in the Law-keepers along with the constant conflict between the children and differences in child discipline issues (each family had several children, and the HRMers were very harsh with their children) and having Grace and Law trying to live in one house just didn't fly.

I've heard of other, similar situations, often with the HRMers taking advantage of family members to enable their Torah life-style (read moochers who could not stay employed or would not take jobs because of their Sabbath beliefs), and making those around them miserable in the process.

Note that it is the Christians who take in the HRMers to minister love to them.

Are all HRMers like that? No. But don't act like there is not sin in the HRM camp and there is only sin in the Church.

People sin under Law; people sin under Grace. People under Grace sin LESS because Grace teaches them to say no to ungodliness; Law only shows people what sin is - it has no power to help them not to sin.

Your choice.

I choose Grace.

-JGIG

We are not talking about pointing fingers at individuals, at least the people who are speaking for accepting scripture isn't. You are the guys who keep bringing up law, the HRM sympathizers aren't except to protect ourselves from your judgments that are unfair and untrue.

I have a grandson in law who was fired because of his holier than thou attitude, he was a well paid executive whose church is main line. Do you think that proves something about scripture? However, I have gone to a HRM church twice and found the people there reflected joy, love, and knowledge of scripture. I was impressed. So sue me!!!

I don't know why you guys harp over and over on law. Do you think the HRM people work harder for the Lord than you do and you are jealous? I have news for you. If we paraded our work as making us superior that would not be in keeping with working for the Lord, and we don't. Are you trying to make yourself superior by saying you don't believe in work?

 

[phil112]

......................... Are you trying to make yourself superior by saying you don't believe in work?

I really would like to know what your eyes see when you read posts. My eyes saw nothing that would justify that question.

 

[Zinzerio]

Originally Posted by RedTent

......................... Are you trying to make yourself superior by saying you don't believe in work?

I really would like to know what your eyes see when you read posts. My eyes saw nothing that would justify that question.

watchout redtent hes got his chainsaw out

 

[RedTent]

I really would like to know what your eyes see when you read posts. My eyes saw nothing that would justify that question.

I know they don't, and can't. The entire Torah is in a blind area of people's eyesight, God used people to show it to us who lived so long ago that know one understands any more. That is why God brought the deep sea scrolls to the surface for us, why the roots movement was opened up after the 1950's. It has to do with the last days, and most people are blind to it. Some of the movement is misused. Demons use any people they can to be against any of knowing God better. Demons were against the printing press, or the thought that people needed an intimate relation to God that the Catholic church at that time did not want to happen. Demons are against anyone knowing God the Father more intimately, in the same way. They will even try to corrupt some of the churches of this movement.

Scholars in our best theological colleges are teaching this, as they have learned through knowing the world of the ancient Hebrews. We are heading fast for the last days, but in the last days of evil, there is also a remnant growing closer to the Lord.

Learning God's way of seeing work is part of the answers that the HRM is bringing out. Exactly what it can't do, and what it can do.

 

[Hizikyah]

Do we believe Scripture?

Yeremyah 16:19-21, "O Yahweh, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity; worthless, powerless gods of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is Yahweh!"

Zecharyah 8:23, "This is what Yahweh of hosts says: In those days ten men, out of all languages of the nations, will take hold of the tzitzit
on the tallit of him who is a Yahdai, saying; We will go with you, for we have heard that Yahweh is with you."