Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

was Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
D

doulos

Guest
“the anti-Semitic view you (zone) promote" vs your (doulos) Dual Covenant heresy.
the antisemitic thing is old. but it sounds good propped up against your STUPID Dome of the Rock is the AOD.

with all things considered - including your impotent jew-hater card.... i'm not interested in discussion with you at all.
bye then.....
And once again Kath resorts to misrepresenting (I.E. lying) and obfuscation, rather then actually addressing the issues. It is a blatant lie to suggest I teach or believe dual covenant theology. Dual covenant theology teaches that a Jew can be saved simply by adhering to the law. Not once have I ever stated that any one regardless of time or location could be saved by the law. From Adam until Christ’s return the only method of salvation is to be born again by placing our faith in Christ who was crucified, died and was resurrected on the third day.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
1Co 10:1- 4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Kath our God does not change. I am sorry you believe everlasting is only to 70AD. May I ask why anyone would trust a God who does not keep His covenants?
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee
Gal_3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 
D

doulos

Guest
guess you'll have to take it up with Jesus.
He's the One who kept saying the residents of Jerusalem-of-the-day (Scribes; Pharisees etc) were the descendants of the murderers of the prophets, and that they too would murder those Jesus was to send - The Apostles.

ask Jesus why He was unclear for you.

why this is unclear at all for so many - i can not say.
It’s your doctrine, not the words of Christ that are being questioned! So why should I take it up with Jesus when I have no problem with what He said? Yes Jesus says Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of the prophets, but He did not say that Jerusalem contains the blood of ALL that were slain upon the earth. Jesus is not unclear but the Scripturally bankrupt doctrine you espouse is!
 
D

doulos

Guest
While it is true that Scripture tells us Jerusalem contains the blood of prophets Scripture does not say that Jerusalem contains the blood of all slain upon the earth. For her to contain the blood of all slain upon earth she cannot be constrained by time or geographic location. Therefore that great city must be representing something that covers the earth and spans time from when Cain slew Abel all the way into our future when the last person to be slain is killed. That effectively leaves out any literal city or any one religion.

I don’t claim to have all the answers but I think we would be better served by considering that she might possibly be all the false religions combined or some sort of system encompassing possibly greed, corruption, lust etc… that drives most of the world.

May God bless your studies!
that's it?
you reject everything the Bible has to say for your imaginings?
no thanks.

see you on the flip side.
Kath What I am doing is far from rejecting everything the bible has to say, and for you to say I am is nothing more then you once again resorting to outright lying! What I am doing is attempting to reconcile all the Scriptures pertaining to the subject at hand. I am not willing to toss out Rev18:24 or twist other Scriptures to make them fit Rev18:24. It is far better to admit one does not have all the answers and share what one believes the possibilities may be in an attempt to find the truth, rather then to attempt to stand by Scripturally bankrupt drivel that is easily proven wrong! If you don’t want to reply to my posts that is your choice but so long as you resort to lying about what others believe and continue to promote Scripturally bankrupt drivel, then expect those who seek the truth to stand against your lies and the Scripturally bankrupt drivel you espouse! I will keep you in my prayers as I truly do feel sorry for you. Love ya Sis.
 
D

doulos

Guest
If there are any who believes Jerusalem is Babylon that are willing to address the issues instead of obfuscating maybe you could provide short Scripturally sound responses to a few questions.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
I realize that Scripture says that Jerusalem contains the blood of prophets, but no one has shown where Scripture says Jerusalem contains the blood of ALL that were slain upon the earth. Can any one? If not why should I believe Jerusalem contains the blood of all that were slain upon the earth? What literal city has existed since Cain murdered Abel on into our future when the last person to be slain is slain? If there is no literal city that meets this Scripturally based requirement then how can Babylon be a literal city?

Neh_11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
Mat_27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Scripture positively identifies Jerusalem as a holy city. Do you believe “mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth” is holy? If so how could that be? If not then how can a city Scripture positively states is a holy city be Babylon if Babylon is not holy?
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
Rev 17:4: "The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls"

("The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet... the prectoral cross should be made of gold and decorated with gems" (Our Sunday visitor's Catholic encyclopedia, 1991, pg 175,178,466)



Jerusalem does not fit. Why? There were 4 colors given by God, to be worn by the priests in Israel - gold, blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28). This color blue is not mentioned in Rev 17:4.

Numbers 15:37-40: Again the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God"
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
Rev 17:4: "The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls"

("The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet... the prectoral cross should be made of gold and decorated with gems" (Our Sunday visitor's Catholic encyclopedia, 1991, pg 175,178,466)



Jerusalem does not fit. Why? There were 4 colors given by God, to be worn by the priests in Israel - gold, blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28). This color blue is not mentioned in Rev 17:4.

Numbers 15:37-40: Again the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God"
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

God bless
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
And once again Kath resorts to misrepresenting (I.E. lying) and obfuscation, rather then actually addressing the issues. It is a blatant lie to suggest I teach or believe dual covenant theology. Dual covenant theology teaches that a Jew can be saved simply by adhering to the law. Not once have I ever stated that any one regardless of time or location could be saved by the law. From Adam until Christ’s return the only method of salvation is to be born again by placing our faith in Christ who was crucified, died and was resurrected on the third day.
you know, i get so sick of you guys tossing out the zone lies garbage. your own endless (ELLIS/THERAPON) threads are available for anybody who can stomach it to go through.

i guess i can do again, since you're going to try to find a way around all this.

your slippery BRAND of Dual Covenant heresy has jews saved by VIRTUE OF BEING JEWS....they can hope for ANY messiah (or none), since they are supposedly by NATURE One of Two WITNESS TREES.

FAULTY PREMISE (LIE) # 1:

The purpose of this thread is not to demonstrate the prophetic time line but to show that per the inspired Word of God candlesticks are churches and olive trees are Jew and Christians.

Rev 1:20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Do you disagree that candlesticks are churches? Do you disagree that olive trees are Jew and Christians? So if candlesticks are churches and olive trees are Jews and Christians then wouldm't the two candlesticks and two olive trees be the Jewish and Christian churches?
ANSWER:

NO.

there is ONE TREE.




believing jews < CHRISTIANS remain in the natural TREE (CHRIST/NEW COVENANT) - are not CUT OFF.......and Believing Gentiles are cut OUT OF their wild tree when they believe, and are GRAFTED INTO the ONE SINGLE OLIVE TREE GOD CARES FOR - His believing people - THOSE IN CHRIST.

ONE TREE.

and a whole bunch of cut off branches, a whole bunch of grafted in branches, and a wild tree of UNSAVED NOT GRAFTED GENTILES.

ONE TREE. NOT TWO.


cont......
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Kath What I am doing is far from rejecting everything the bible has to say, and for you to say I am is nothing more then you once again resorting to outright lying! What I am doing is attempting to reconcile all the Scriptures pertaining to the subject at hand. I am not willing to toss out Rev18:24 or twist other Scriptures to make them fit Rev18:24. It is far better to admit one does not have all the answers and share what one believes the possibilities may be in an attempt to find the truth, rather then to attempt to stand by Scripturally bankrupt drivel that is easily proven wrong! If you don’t want to reply to my posts that is your choice but so long as you resort to lying about what others believe and continue to promote Scripturally bankrupt drivel, then expect those who seek the truth to stand against your lies and the Scripturally bankrupt drivel you espouse! I will keep you in my prayers as I truly do feel sorry for you. Love ya Sis.
HERE'S YOUR DUAL COVENANT HERESY:

Rom 11:25-28 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

There are Jews that are enemies of the gospel (not Christians) but still elect. Remember God's covenant with the Jews was an everlasting covenant. Man may not honor his word and break a promise but God always honors His promises.

Would you care to explain how a Jew that is an enemy of the gospel but still elect is part of the Christian church?
"Would you care to explain how a Jew that is an enemy of the gospel but still elect is part of the Christian church?"

STRAW MAN BUILT BY ELLIS ZIONIST DUAL COVENANT BACKERS....who want to pin everything on ISLAM.

there are NO jews who are enemies of the Gospel and still elect - that's why they are not part of the Christian Church.
THAT CAME TO AN END IN PAUL'S DAY.

you guys have Ergun terrorists calling out for some mosiach while hating Christ SAVED. because they are jews.

its sad because you claim you deny dispensationalism, but here you pimp it right out in the open.

you do not understand Romans 9-11 AT ALL.

every dispie in the world has corrupted what this means.

"There are Jews that are enemies of the gospel (not Christians) but still elect. Remember God's covenant with the Jews was an everlasting covenant. Man may not honor his word and break a promise but God always honors His promises."

God's Everlasting Covenant with the Jews was the Covenant with Abraham.

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

now later, i'll use the handy dandy search feature, and have YOU agreeing and contributing to the idea that Jews can openly deny Jesus of Nazareth and still be saved. something about a blinding. that this WAS GOD'S PLAN.

something about them being Good Old Testament Wineskin Witnesses who didn't receive the Gospel (IN ORDER TO SAVE THEM) because they would have exploded.

so consequently, (according to your bankrupt and ludicrous doctrine) the fact that there are Old Testament Wineskins who reject Jesus walking around is supposedly some TESTIMONY to God's faithfulness to His Covenant - by KEEPING the Old Testament Wineskin Jews OUT of the the New Covenant (New Wine) because they couldn't handle it.

THEY'D EXPLODE.

oh....PURLEEZE.

more later.
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63

It’s your doctrine, not the words of Christ that are being questioned! So why should I take it up with Jesus when I have no problem with what He said? Yes Jesus says Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of the prophets, but He did not say that Jerusalem contains the blood of ALL that were slain upon the earth. Jesus is not unclear but the Scripturally bankrupt doctrine you espouse is!
who you gonna pin all that blood on.
just spell it out
satan.
Rome?
the world?
the church?

Yes Jesus says Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of the prophets, but He did not say that Jerusalem contains the blood of [/SIZE][/COLOR]ALL that were slain upon the earth. Jesus is not unclear but the Scripturally bankrupt doctrine you espouse is![/FONT]
He said the rulers - and ALL APOSTATE JERUSALEM - were RESPONSIBLE for all the blood.

you figure out what that means.

start by rethinking your MAGIC 70th week.

you gonna OVER-RULE WHAT JESUS SAID?
apparently you're not afraid to do do, based on some lone hebrew "scholar" that nobody can find who decided the 70th week was a magic week.
and ellis (not really...he took someone else's work) REVERSE-ENGINEERED IT ALL TO MAKE THE DOME OF THE ROCK THE AOD.

laughable.
and deadly for the false teachers.

just bypass everything about Israel and Christ.

jump ahead to ISLAM.
see ya later.

all your stuff laid out HERE. then the reader can decide.
 
Last edited:

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
Miss Zone

I would like to hear your thoughts, on post # 420 & 425 if possible thx

God bless
 

Kreation

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2013
169
4
0
Hey zone....I'll look through your posts and i'll let you know what I think later ...:)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
I hope folks here read this i trully do, this is my final post on this thread...

There are none lead captive by the distruction of Mystery Babylon the Great period !!!
The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD
www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jewishtemple.htm‎
In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Roman masters. ... death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt,


Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora‎
A large number of Jews in Egypt became mercenaries in Upper Egypt on an island .... of the Apostles), Cicero, and Josephus, all mention Jewish populations in the ... entered the Diaspora as slaves after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. ... there was a sudden expulsion of Jews from Palestine in 70 AD that led to the



The Jewish War and the Destruction of Jerusalem - The Latter Rain
latter-rain.com/Israel/jewar.htm‎
The Jews were confident that God would come to their rescue and vindicate their .... Many who survived were sold into slavery or taken to Rome for the wild beasts. ... After the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, the Sadducees disappear - no


Jerusalem, AD70: The Worst Desolation Ever? - UK Apologetics
www.ukapologetics.net/09/AD70.htm‎
The day of judgment upon the Jewish people seemed to be close at hand. ... Josephus (a personal witness to the events) claims that over 1,100,000 ... 97,000 were captured and enslaved, and many fled to areas around the Mediterranean.


The Great Revolt (66 - 70 CE) | Jewish Virtual Library
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html‎
The Jews' Great Revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. led to one of the greatest ... the Galilee, and an estimated 100,000 Jews were killed or sold into slavery


Roman Rule - Jewish Virtual Library
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Romans.html‎
The Jews were hostile to the new regime, and the following years witnessed ... to the ground (70 CE) and defeating the last Jewish outpost at Masada (73 CE). ... and elsewhere in the country, and many thousands more were sold into slavery.


First Jewish–Roman War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish–Roman_War‎
Riots again erupted in Alexandria in 40 between Jews and Greeks. .... the citadels; the city was then put to the torch, with most survivors taken into slavery; some


Christians and Anti-Semitism: A Calendar of Jewish Persecution
www.hearnow.org/caljp.html‎
70 A.D., Destruction of Jerusalem 1,100,000 Jews were killed and 97,000 taken into slavery and captivity. 115, Rebellion of the Jews in Mesopotania, Egypt,


70 AD: Romans destroy Jerusalem and Temple
www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/e30.htm‎
70 AD (About 2000 years ago): In 70 AD, the Roman Army, under Titus, destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, to suppress an uprising of ... According to the historian Josephus, about 1.1 million Jews were killed. Others were taken as slaves.


Messenger in the Temple before 70AD | Christian Evidences Ministries
www.christianevidences.org/messenger-in-the-temple-before-70ad.html‎
Twelfth century Jewish scholar, Rabbi David Kimchi, referred to this verse, saying, "The ... In 70 AD, the Roman General Titus Vespasian came and destroyed .... and the Jews lost the Temple, and whoever was left alive was taken into slavery.

I hope folks here read this i trully do, this is my final post on this thread...

There are none lead captive by the distruction of Mystery Babylon the Great period !!!
were there any taken captive at the destruction of 1st century Jerusalem, Mystery, Babylon the Great Harlot...OR NOT.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
VIC....is this the post you wanted a response to?


Rev 17:4: "The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls"

("The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet... the prectoral cross should be made of gold and decorated with gems" (Our Sunday visitor's Catholic encyclopedia, 1991, pg 175,178,466)


Jerusalem does not fit. Why? There were 4 colors given by God, to be worn by the priests in Israel - gold, blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28). This color blue is not mentioned in Rev 17:4.

Numbers 15:37-40: Again the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God"
oh...one color not mentioned in Rev 17. that settles it:rolleyes:

all the other internal Biblical evidence The Lord was concerned with JERUSALEM. and somebody finds a color Rome uses (a daughter of the Great Harlot, not the MOTHER)...and presto....Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem, He was crucified outside the camp of the Israelites (everything went down in Jerusalem)...but who cares - THIS PROVES THE HARLOT IS THE VATICAN.

iron sharpens iron alright. sure.

what did you want to know Vic?
that this proves Mystery Babylon is the Great Whore ROME?

please list all the prophets murdered IN ROME.
find every single time God referred to Rome as as an Harlot; Sodom; Egypt; playing the Whore.....??ANYTHING...got anything at all?


what does this actually say:


29“Woe to you, POPES AND CATHOLICS, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.


29“Woe to you, APOSTATE PROTESTANTS, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.


29“Woe to you, WORLDLY POLITICIANS AND ILLUMINATI, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

OR DOES IT SAY:

Matthew 23
Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,a and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbib by others. 8But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.c 9And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.d 15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of helle as yourselves.

16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness. 28So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Lament over Jerusalem
37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38See, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”


^ COVENANT CURSES ^ just like God threatened ALL THROUGH THE OT.

NOTHING about Rome.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Revelation 17:4
3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, 5and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

...

The apparel of the high priest is cited in Exodus chapter 28. Both the priests and the high priest, except for ceremonial events, dressed as other Jews. At ceremonial events, however, the high priest wore white linen shorts, a white linen coat that came to the hips, a ceremonial belt colored in correspondence to the curtains of the Tabernacle -- white, blue, scarlet, and purple; he also wore a turban-like cap with a golden crown, upon which was inscribed: 'holy to Jehovah.' Additionally, the high priest wore an ephod of blue, beautifully embroidered in the colors cited above; also a breast-plate of gold and cloth, with the urim and the thummim on the shoulders, and twelve stones, each stone representing one of the twelve tribes; each stone was engraved with their names and fastened with a golden clasp.

Levitical Priesthood < click

.....

HIGH PRIEST
Aaron, though he is but rarely called "the great priest," being generally simply designated "as ha- kohen" (the priest), was the first incumbent of the office, to which he was appointed by God (Ex. xxviii. 1, 2; xxix. 4, 5). The succession was to be through one of his sons, and was to remain in his own family (Lev. vi. 15; comp. Josephus, "Ant." xx. 10, § 1). Failing a son, the office devolved upon the brother next of age: such appears to have been the practise in the Maccabean period. In the time of ELI, however (I Sam. ii. 23), the office passed to the collateral branch of Ithamar (see Eleazar). But Solomon is reported to have deposed Abiathar, and to have appointed Zadok, a descendant of Eleazar, inhis stead (I Kings ii. 35; I Chron. xxiv. 2, 3).

After the Exile, the succession seems to have been, at first, in a direct line from father to son; but later the civil authorities arrogated to themselves the right of appointment. Antiochus IV., Epiphanes, for instance, deposed Onias III. in favor of Jason, who was followed by Menelaus (Josephus, "Ant." xii. 5, § 1; II Macc. iii. 4, iv. 23).

Herod nominated no less than six high priests; Archelaus, two. The Roman legate Quirinius and his successors exercised the right of appointment, as did Agrippa I., Herod of Chalcis, and Agrippa II. Even the people occasionally elected candidates to the office.


HIGH PRIEST - JewishEncyclopedia.com < click


WAS GOD OKAY WITH THE HERODS APPOINTING THEIR CRONIES AS HIGH PRIESTS - AND KILLING THE REAL ONES?
doing as they pleased?

i don't know....what did He say?

Daniel 11
36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

44But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

......


The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet - CHECK

and adorned with gold - CHECK

and precious stones and pearls - CHECK

having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations - CHECK

and of the unclean things of her immorality - CHECK

~

Tyrian shekels (Tyrian tetradrachmas) were coins of Tyre, which in the Roman Empire took on an unusual role as the medium of payment for the Temple tax in Jerusalem, and subsequently gained notoriety as a likely mode of payment for Judas Iscariot. The coins bore the likeness of the Phoenician god Melqart or Baal, accepted as the Olympian Herakles by the Greeks and derided as Beelzebub by Jews in the time of the Seleucids, wearing the laurel reflecting his role in the Tyrian games and the ancient Olympic Games.[1] These coins, the size of a modern Israeli half-shekel, were minted in Palestine, but were required to bear this image by the Romans to avoid accusations that the Jews were given autonomy.[2] They were replaced by First Jewish Revolt coinage in 66 AD.
Tyrian shekel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...

OKAY? they were using Tyrian money in the Temple - that bore the likeness of BAAL..

...

then:

First Jewish Revolt coinage was issued by the Jews after the Zealots captured Jerusalem and the Jewish temple from the Romans in 66 AD at the beginning of the First Jewish Revolt. The Jewish leaders of the revolt minted their own coins to emphasize their newly obtained independence from Rome.

In the revolt's first year (66–67 AD), the Jews minted only silver coins, which were struck from the temple’s store of silver. These coins replaced the Tyrian shekel, which had previously been used to pay the temple tax.

The newly-minted silver coins included shekels, half-shekels, and quarter-shekels, each being labelled with the year of minting and their denomination. These are the first truly Jewish silver coins,[1] and depict a chalice on the obverse with the year of the revolt above, surrounded by the ancient Hebrew inscription "Shekel of Israel". Three budding pomegranates are featured on the reverse, with the inscription "Jerusalem the Holy".[2]



First Jewish Revolt coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


......the ZEALOTS (REVOLUTIONARIES) minted a new coin - bearing the image of a CHALICE adorned with PEARLS.

i wonder if God was happy about millions of little IDOLATROUS images INSIDE THE TEMPLE bearing the image of Baal.
would He consider this an abomination? i don't know. what do you think?

and i wonder if it matter to Him after that, just before 70AD - that the zealots (who had rejected Jesus Christ) minted coins bearing a CHALICE ADORNED WITH PEARLS.

apparently. He had it recorded.
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
anyways.....:rolleyes: the typical indoc'd response that this biblical truth is somehow antisemitic is incredible. not surprising since people think the Gospel is Hagee's corruption of Genesis 12.

instead, i find that those who will bend over backwards to deny what God Himself has said reveal antichrist attitudes to His truth.

course that's just my....

"antisemiticantinomianamillennialpunitivereplacementupercalifragilisticexpialidocious" theology.

do what you want with it.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,959
113
Very good explanation, Kath! Still looking for some rebuttals that are at least as well researched and Biblical as this one.

By the way, I was taught in Seminary that Babylon was Rome. I am quite willing to change my views when presented with the correct biblical, historical and archeological data. Still waiting for the dispensationalist to come up with something as good!
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD
www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jewishtemple.htm‎
In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Roman masters. ... death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt,


Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora‎
A large number of Jews in Egypt became mercenaries in Upper Egypt on an island .... of the Apostles), Cicero, and Josephus, all mention Jewish populations in the ... entered the Diaspora as slaves after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. ... there was a sudden expulsion of Jews from Palestine in 70 AD that led to the



The Jewish War and the Destruction of Jerusalem - The Latter Rain
latter-rain.com/Israel/jewar.htm‎
The Jews were confident that God would come to their rescue and vindicate their .... Many who survived were sold into slavery or taken to Rome for the wild beasts. ... After the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, the Sadducees disappear - no


Jerusalem, AD70: The Worst Desolation Ever? - UK Apologetics
www.ukapologetics.net/09/AD70.htm‎
The day of judgment upon the Jewish people seemed to be close at hand. ... Josephus (a personal witness to the events) claims that over 1,100,000 ... 97,000 were captured and enslaved, and many fled to areas around the Mediterranean.


The Great Revolt (66 - 70 CE) | Jewish Virtual Library
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html‎
The Jews' Great Revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. led to one of the greatest ... the Galilee, and an estimated 100,000 Jews were killed or sold into slavery


Roman Rule - Jewish Virtual Library
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Romans.html‎
The Jews were hostile to the new regime, and the following years witnessed ... to the ground (70 CE) and defeating the last Jewish outpost at Masada (73 CE). ... and elsewhere in the country, and many thousands more were sold into slavery.


First Jewish–Roman War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish–Roman_War‎
Riots again erupted in Alexandria in 40 between Jews and Greeks. .... the citadels; the city was then put to the torch, with most survivors taken into slavery; some


Christians and Anti-Semitism: A Calendar of Jewish Persecution
www.hearnow.org/caljp.html‎
70 A.D., Destruction of Jerusalem 1,100,000 Jews were killed and 97,000 taken into slavery and captivity. 115, Rebellion of the Jews in Mesopotania, Egypt,


70 AD: Romans destroy Jerusalem and Temple
www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/e30.htm‎
70 AD (About 2000 years ago): In 70 AD, the Roman Army, under Titus, destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, to suppress an uprising of ... According to the historian Josephus, about 1.1 million Jews were killed. Others were taken as slaves.


Messenger in the Temple before 70AD | Christian Evidences Ministries
www.christianevidences.org/messenger-in-the-temple-before-70ad.html‎
Twelfth century Jewish scholar, Rabbi David Kimchi, referred to this verse, saying, "The ... In 70 AD, the Roman General Titus Vespasian came and destroyed .... and the Jews lost the Temple, and whoever was left alive was taken into slavery.



were there any taken captive at the destruction of 1st century Jerusalem, Mystery, Babylon the Great Harlot...OR NOT.
Let me make this simple as post # 420

God Judge , Jerusalem and her first temple captive taken away - yes

God Judge , Jerusalem and her second temple captive taken away - yes

God Judge , Mystery Babylon the Great captive taken away - none

If the punishment of Mystery babylon the great ,the mother of Harlots and the abomination of the earth, that fornificated with the kings of the earth. If her destruction are the same ,as the events when they destroy Jerusalem & the temple the first time around. Why does it not fit with what is written in rev 18 , the first and thee second have much similarities on these events , 70AD does not seem to fit the judgement of God by the context we have in the bible written in revelation 18 , clearly there are none taken away captive, not one !!! they are all killed period.

Revelation 18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

only his people are called out of her, there are none lead captive from the judgement God brought on Her Mystery Babylon the Great


Re-read Revelation 18 miss zone and God bless

P.S. i never mention , i belive it is rome
But i know it is bigger than 70 AD God bless
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
I figured it out!! It's Miley Cyrus!!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Very good explanation, Kath! Still looking for some rebuttals that are at least as well researched and Biblical as this one.

By the way, I was taught in Seminary that Babylon was Rome. I am quite willing to change my views when presented with the correct biblical, historical and archeological data. Still waiting for the dispensationalist to come up with something as good!
Rome Catholicism was eventually fully Judaized ...clearly. and is apostate and all that.

anybody can see that.:)

no protestant denies that.

but she is NOT THE MOTHER of Harlots of Revelation.

somewhere in all the Temple Institute videos is one where a Rabbi actually says:

Judaism is the Mother of Christianity and Islam, and the daughters should come home to their Mother.

:rolleyes:

i might try to find it again. or anyone who is interested can.
it has nothing to do with the Harlot of revelation - unless you believe in a Dual Fulfillment. if so, it's STILL going to be Jerusalem.

example from their Youtube acct:

[video=youtube;PORSjRjGQwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PORSjRjGQwM[/video]

Bnai Noach and the Mezuzah question addressed by Rabbi Chaim Richman

Uploaded on Mar 5, 2009
Rabbi Chaim Richman, at a recent Bnai Noach Conference at Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.,addresses the issue of Bnai Noach being allowed to put a Mezuzah on the doors of their home.

.....

here they are typically pretending God planned gentiles were to obey the Noahide Laws.
nothing about Jesus.
sounds like a lot of stuff the HR people are delving into.

a little leaven.

yawn.
 
Last edited: