A keeping of a sabbath is left to GOD's people

Ariel82 · Jul 17, 2013

if you look at the time stamp of the post, you will see some of them are overlapping. which means if someone is typing a response to a post, they most likely have not seen the post typed after the one they quote.

i just suggest you represent what you believe and not take it upon yourself to speak for John and his beliefs, because it seems like they might differ on this point.

Ariel82 · Jul 17, 2013

Shiloah said:

the two statements don't match.

normally that would not matter really except for this statement:

and this one:

Grandpa · Jul 17, 2013

Shiloah said:

That covers them all. If you start making exceptions based on what the Lord has fulfilled you will have none left, because He has fulfilled them ALL.

Shiloah said:

Can you listen to what you are saying for a moment. You are saying that Jesus is our rest but that is no excuse for not working...

Like I have said all along. And maybe you can see now. You are either working at the Law. Or you are resting in Christ.

You are either Abiding in Christ. Or you are trying to keep commandments.

And that is what Paul is saying in Galatians. We were all under the schoolmaster at one time. But when faith has brought us to Christ we are no longer under that schoolmaster. When Faith comes we abide in Christ because we know there is nowhere else for us to go, or anywhere we would rather be. We rest in Him and His Finished Work.

John 15:4-5
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

danschance · Jul 17, 2013

Seventh Day Adventists like to tell us to keep the commandments. What I would love to know is which commandments are they telling us to keep?

Are we to keep all 613 commandments of the old testament or just some?

Who decides which ones we don't keep?

Shiloah · Jul 17, 2013

Ariel82 said:

I will try to clarify. What I meant is this: Because Christ became our sacrifice for sin did not make sin not sin. It's still sin and He is our advocate when it comes to forgiving our sin. He did not make us able to sin through His sacrifice, He enabled us to not sin by way of the Holy Spirit, and then if we do sin, we again have our advocate in Christ. I can't explain this in any other way, in fact, I don't think you would understand what I'm saying no matter how I would explain it.

If you think the sabbath had nothing to do with identifying Israel as God's people, you need to reread the scriptures surrounding that commandment in the Old Testament. We are now God's people grafted into the vine, hence, we are the New Israel.

Exodus 20:8-11 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Ezekiel 20:12 New American Standard Bible
"Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

Shiloah · Jul 17, 2013

Grandpa said:

Do you work for a living? Because Jesus is now our rest, does that mean you no longer work for a living? Obviously not. The Sabbath has nothing to do with resting in Christ other than we rest in Christ on the sabbath. By abiding in Christ, I keep His commandments because He told me to. Abiding in Christ has enabled me to keep His commandments. You contradict yourself by saying that either I abide in Christ or I keep His commandments. Again and again, if you abide in Christ, you do what He says, and He said to keep His commandments.

Grandpa · Jul 17, 2013

Shiloah said:

Yes I work for a living. There was a time, for about 6 months that I didn't work. And I didn't want for anything in that 6 months.

Did you know that the word Sabbath means rest?

Shiloah · Jul 17, 2013

Grandpa said:

And that has what to do with this discussion? I'm out.

homwardbound · Jul 17, 2013

john832 said:

and it is done by Christ, no more sacrifices, no more shedding of Blood. It was for forgiveness. therefore there is no more forgiveness to be executed from God after the final sacrifice of Christ for us all.
So after one comes to Christ and believes God about Christ, is there anymore forgiveness to be executed from God to me, you or anyone else that sins afterwards?
Now I am not promoting sin, rather taking it away through Christ as is what Christ has already done by the cross for all that believe.
Now if wish to hold to Law as in keeping the Sabbath fine, but by this you are held accountable to it all, not just one part all of it. That is like trying to hold Ten apples under water at the same time with two hands, an impossibility
So I do not and am not judging you about any law that you hold self accountable to fro I know
[h=3]Romans 14[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]The Law of Liberty[/h]14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

And this Chapter is more than just food, food was the issue at that time and worship as well

[h=3]Romans 14:5-6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

john832 · Jul 17, 2013

Grandpa said:

You mean like this?

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

homwardbound · Jul 17, 2013

Bryancampbell said:

would this not be the laws of Love, the greatest of all commands?
And how would we be able to do this? Of self effort through trying to believe and holding onto Law?
I see,
1 John 4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.
What type of love, God's? now this is best described in 1 Cor13:4-13, now after reading it can any flesh and blood does this type of Love?
So only God can, and how can or does God accomplish this in us?
Could it be by the resurrected Christ in the Spirit? Not the death, even though that was needed first
Then ask this what is the only way God can be served? by Flesh or Spirit of God?

homwardbound · Jul 17, 2013

Michael50 said:

How are you doing with keeping all Ten? I remember when I had nine down and I went for the tenth in order to be complete, 4 would pop right back up before me and would have to start over and over again.
It was like trying to hold ten Ping pong balls under water at the same time using my two hands, I would get control of nine and when I went for the tenth, yep 4,5, 6, or just 1 would pop back up on me showing me my inability to obey law 100% perfectly and my need for Christ and Christ alone to be introduced to God as Holy, in Father's sight by Christ's sacrifice once and for all
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

The Gospel I hear is Faith in Christ, by belief in God through Christ I am saved, whether I try to do law or not.
I do not want this

[h=3]Galatians 3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Justification by Faith[/h]3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— [SUP]6 [/SUP]just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

All in God's love to you

homwardbound · Jul 17, 2013

You know you all no matter which way this thread is sliced, diced, and or cubed.
Does everyone agree that GOD JUST LOVE US ALL? So let us please stay loving each other

john832 · Jul 17, 2013

homwardbound said:

Sure there is...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

You do sin, don't you? I will be honest with you and all, I sin. I am not perfect, I transgress and must go before the throne daily to have my sins forgiven.

Romans 14?

Let's look at it...

In a cursory reading the first thing we notice is the Sabbath is not mentioned at all. Next, what are the subjects dealt with? The primary subject is judging one who is weak in the faith...

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now this is stated in reference to two sub headings, the first is vegetarianism...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

The second is fasting...

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why does this passage link regarding a day with eating? Paul was dealing with a those who believed that the Law could save them. (Do you have a doubt about that?) Now what in the world is a day linked to eating about?

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

You bet he did. Two times a week, Monday and Thursday. EVERY Monday and EVERY Thursday. The subject is the ritual fasting of the Pharisees. This is how observing the day and eating is linked in this passage.

Now drop on down to...

This is not referring to clean and unclean meat here, the word for meat is really...

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Food, not meat. He was actually talking about foods sacirficed to idols being nothing in particular. They could buy the food (meat and wine) sacrificed to idols in a meat market (the shambles) at a very reasonable price and it meant nothing that it had been supposedly sacrificed to Dianna or some other statue. But, if your weaker brother is offended by it, don't eat it...

Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Notice here that it is referring to meat and drink, both of which ere commonly sacrificed to idols. Read the following passage carefully, you will see that Paul was addressing this issue with the Corinthians also...

1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
1Co 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

Ground glass? Skunks? Fugu? No, he is referring to foods sacrificed to idols (vs. 19-20)

1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Not speaking of clean and unclean, it is the same subject in Rom 14, food sacrificed to idols.

1Co 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
1Co 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

And again, the main thought here is do not offend, just as Rom 14...

Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

john832 · Jul 17, 2013

homwardbound said:

We can disagree, agreeably.

Grandpa · Jul 17, 2013

john832 said:

No. Not the Old Way. That's the shadow that pointed to Him who is the Light of the World.

The New Way. The way where He causes us to walk in the Light as He is in the Light.

Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

john832 · Jul 17, 2013

homwardbound said:

How are you doing with keeping all Ten? I remember when I had nine down and I went for the tenth in order to be complete, 4 would pop right back up before me and would have to start over and over again.
It was like trying to hold ten Ping pong balls under water at the same time using my two hands, I would get control of nine and when I went for the tenth, yep 4,5, 6, or just 1 would pop back up on me showing me my inability to obey law 100% perfectly and my need for Christ and Christ alone to be introduced to God as Holy, in Father's sight by Christ's sacrifice once and for all
Colossians 1:21-23

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

The Gospel I hear is Faith in Christ, by belief in God through Christ I am saved, whether I try to do law or not.
I do not want this

Galatians 3

New King James Version (NKJV)

Justification by Faith

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— [SUP]6 [/SUP]just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

All in God's love to you

So what now? You don't even try? You just do whatever you wish? Do you murder often? How about number eight? C'mon, fess up, the one you really take issue with is number four.

john832 · Jul 17, 2013

Grandpa said:

So, you don't keep the Sabbath? Do you keep number 6? How about number 1? or 2 or 3 or 5 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10?

Bryancampbell · Jul 17, 2013

So we are fussing over the fact God wanted us to have a day to rest and reflect on Him?

Michael50 · Jul 17, 2013

Bryancampbell said:

What do you suppose is the Mark of the Beast?

A keeping of a sabbath is left to GOD's people

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