A keeping of a sabbath is left to GOD's people

[Shiloah]

That particular twisting of the scripture doesn't even make sense. If the law of animal sacrifices brought us to Christ how come there aren't a bunch of people sacrificing animals and suddenly becoming aware that they don't need to sacrifice animals anymore because Christ fulfilled that particular law?

What there are a lot of, though, are people who "keep" the 10 commandments and realizing their shortcomings they come to Christ and ask Him to help them.

I didn't come to Christ because I was having problems with my animal sacrifices. I came to Christ because I was having problems keeping the 10 commandments the way He magnified them in Matthew 5.

The sacrificial laws clearly point to Christ's sacrifice as the perfect lamb that fulfilled the sacrificial laws, which yeah, pointed to that fulfillment. The Pharisees and others like them clearly didn't understand the very laws they kept, as they did not recognize the very Christ those laws pointed to, who kept and fulfilled those sacrificial laws perfectly.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

okay.
but pasting every passage with KINGDOM in it from a Red Letter Bible just muddies the water.

ex: what do you think this means:

(Act 1:6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?



why not just answer yes or no.



yes, the Kingdom has come - for those who believe.

thats what the Gospel is for...to save more and bring them in.

no one will be saved by the Law.
no one.

Totally agree no one will be saved by the Law. The Law is to be obeyed. Just because you can't be saved by the Law means to throw out the baby with the bath water. Are you a Torah keeper? If not, why not?

 

[Shiloah]

It's not that the sabbath is void, but that the son of man is lord of the sabbath.

The reason that sabbaths appear in Colossians 2:16 is because, like now, there were people with weak faith.

Christ is Lord of the Sabbath? Well obviously, since He's the one that gave us the sabbath as well as specified that it be kept on the 7th day of the week AS A SIGN that our God created heaven and earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th? You claim somehow that is no longer true? Obviously.

I guess I choose to have weak faith then if I have to disobey my Lord to be told my faith is strong.

 

[Ariel82]

[h=2]A keeping of a sabbath is left to GOD's people[/h]you title kind of bothers me.

it implies we can chose to keep the Sabbath or not.

I don't really agree with that concept. I believe we are to keep the Sabbath, but not in the way many legalistic people mean.

hear me out. i know this is a touchy subject.

we have to understand why Jesus says the Sabbath is made for man not man for the Sabbath:

God wants us to take a break, a rest from our work to remind us of our homeland and WHY we are strangers and pilgrims on this Earth.

Our Sabbath rest is found in Christ, not in rituals or laws of Do this, Don't do that, it must be on this day, etc, etc.

We don't have a choice in whether we keep the Sabbath rest or not. God demands that we do for our own good, because the Sabbath rest is NOT about a day out of the week.

for us to truly keep the Sabbath we remember our true homeland, lay our burdens down at the cross and break the chains of sin and lies that bind us. We lay down on green pastures and still waters, until God calls us again to lift our burdens and do works that will bring glory to His name and shine His light upon the world.

It may be a day, it may be a month, it may be a year, or it may just be an hour but the rest God gives goes against our human nature to continually strive and work work work.

sometimes God tells us to Rest. to BE STILL and know that HE is God.

That is the true meaning of the Sabbath, the real reason God wants His people to remember and keep Holy the sabbath is so they won't lose hope or be overburdened with cares of this world.

It is a sign of God's grace and love when He allows us those precious moments to enjoy what God has given us without the worry and burden of DOING or WORKING.

why else would our bodies spend so much time asleep and resting?

scientific study have shown that while the body is a sleep is when the cells heal and repair. that is why lack of sleep affects our health so drastically.

God made us to take time to rest because that is the time He uses to have us grow spiritually.

our bodies work work work during the day. at night when we rest, they heal and build and grow. In the same way when we take time to rest, God helps us grow spiritually.

 

[Shiloah]

Why the debate that we're not saved by keeping the law has any more to do with keeping a 7th day sabbath than not committing adultery, not coveting what is my neighbors stuff, not worshiping idols, not bearing false witness against my neighbor as well as all the other commandments I'll never understand. I think it's a red herring argument, or straw man argument or whatever as it always comes up and has nothing whatsoever to do with doing what Christ says. Once again, "Jesus replied, "All who love me will do what I say."

 

[Grandpa]

The sacrificial laws clearly point to Christ's sacrifice as the perfect lamb that fulfilled the sacrificial laws, which yeah, pointed to that fulfillment. The Pharisees and others like them clearly didn't understand the very laws they kept, as they did not recognize the very Christ those laws pointed to, who kept and fulfilled those sacrificial laws perfectly.

What you say is correct. But it has nothing to do with animal sacrifices being the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.

Like I said earlier, if animal sacrifices are what bring a person to Christ where are the people that are sacrificing them and coming to Christ?

Where is anyones testimony saying how they were trying to sacrifice animals perfectly but weren't able to but thankfully all that animal sacrifice brought me to Christ?

There's none.

But my testimony to you is I tried to keep His Law contained in the 10 Commandments perfectly as the Lord Describes them in Matthew 5. I was not able to keep them perfectly and this is precisely what brought me to Christ.

 

[Shiloah]

What you say is correct. But it has nothing to do with animal sacrifices being the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.

Like I said earlier, if animal sacrifices are what bring a person to Christ where are the people that are sacrificing them and coming to Christ?

Where is anyones testimony saying how they were trying to sacrifice animals perfectly but weren't able to but thankfully all that animal sacrifice brought me to Christ?

There's none.

But my testimony to you is I tried to keep His Law contained in the 10 Commandments perfectly as the Lord Describes them in Matthew 5. I was not able to keep them perfectly and this is precisely what brought me to Christ.

Well I think you misunderstood what John said. I agree that the animal sacrifices were about Christ's sacrifice for our sins, whereas the schoolmaster shows us what sin is. But we do see Christ in the animals sacrifices too, because He's the perfect lamb. I've never seen anything John's posted that says what you seem to be suggesting. I would think that the fact that the sacrificial laws are different from the schoolmaster laws clearly suggests that because the sacrificial laws were fulfilled by Christ's coming, we are now enabled through that sacrifice to keep those laws. The difference is that if we sin, now our intercessor is Christ Himself, not an animal sacrifice. There's your difference.

As for keeping the law perfectly? Yeah, God holds us to a high standard, and now because of Christ's sacrifice, we pick up our cross and follow Him daily by seeking to live perfectly according to the Law just as He did and accomplished perfectly. But we don't stop working towards perfection because He WILL complete His good work in each one of us that truly love Him.

 

[Ariel82]

. I think it's a red herring argument, or straw man argument or whatever as it always comes up and has nothing whatsoever to do with doing what Christ says. Once again, "Jesus replied, "All who love me will do what I say."

that is exactly the point. Jesus never commanded people to keep the seventh day sabbath. He didn't think it was important enough to list, because He revealed what TRULY gave people rest. just as He revealed what could be a TRUE sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. it wasn't the rituals surrounding the Sabbaths in the OT and it wasn't the animal sacrifice of blood found in the OT either.

It was forgiveness through the blood of JESUS spilled on the cross and rest by abiding in HIM and following the leading of the Holy Spirit: NOT slaughtering animals or keeping ritualistic laws surrounding the Sabbath.

 

[Ariel82]

I would think that the fact that the sacrificial laws are different from the schoolmaster laws clearly suggests that because the sacrificial laws were fulfilled by Christ's coming, we are now enabled through that sacrifice to keep those laws. The difference is that if we sin, now our intercessor is Christ Himself, not an animal sacrifice. There's your difference.

so you think you can keep the schoolmaster laws? ..

 

[Shiloah]

that is exactly the point. Jesus never commanded people to keep the seventh day sabbath. He didn't think it was important enough to list, because He revealed what TRULY gave people rest. just as He revealed what could be a TRUE sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. it wasn't the rituals surrounding the Sabbaths in the OT and it wasn't the animal sacrifice of blood found in the OT either.

It was forgiveness through the blood of JESUS spilled on the cross and rest by abiding in HIM and following the leading of the Holy Spirit: NOT slaughtering animals or keeping ritualistic laws surrounding the Sabbath.

Jesus never said "only the commandments I list are still important." In fact, He said if anyone breaks even the least of the commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. That covers them all accept the one's He Himself fulfilled. Slaughtering animals OBVIOUSLY was about the sacrificial laws which had nothing to do with keeping the sabbath, as you'll notice, nor did they have to do with any of the 10 commandments.

Saying Jesus is our rest is true, but to say that replaces keeping the sabbath is a concept created by man. It is never stated in scriptures that one has anything to do with the other.

 

[Grandpa]

Well I think you misunderstood what John said. I agree that the animal sacrifices were about Christ's sacrifice for our sins, whereas the schoolmaster shows us what sin is. But we do see Christ in the animals sacrifices too, because He's the perfect lamb. I've never seen anything John's posted that says what you seem to be suggesting. I would think that the fact that the sacrificial laws are different from the schoolmaster laws clearly suggests that because the sacrificial laws were fulfilled by Christ's coming, we are now enabled through that sacrifice to keep those laws. The difference is that if we sin, now our intercessor is Christ Himself, not an animal sacrifice. There's your difference.

As for keeping the law perfectly? Yeah, God holds us to a high standard, and now because of Christ's sacrifice, we pick up our cross and follow Him daily by seeking to live perfectly according to the Law just as He did and accomplished perfectly. But we don't stop working towards perfection because He WILL complete His good work in each one of us that truly love Him

The subject here is animal sacrifices, not the Ten Commandments. The Law of animal sacrifices is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ. It was a direct shadow of the coming perfect Sacrifice but of itself, could not pay the penalty for sin. Only Christ, the Creator of all, could give enough to forgive sin.

You think I misunderstood what John832 was saying???

Galatians 3:17-26
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Shiloah]

You think I misunderstood what John832 was saying???

Galatians 3:17-26
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Obviously, you misunderstood what I was saying. Hence....

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus never said "only the commandments I list are still important." In fact, He said if anyone breaks even the least of the commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. That covers them all accept the one's He Himself fulfilled. Slaughtering animals OBVIOUSLY was about the sacrificial laws which had nothing to do with keeping the sabbath, as you'll notice, nor did they have to do with any of the 10 commandments.

Saying Jesus is our rest is true, but to say that replaces keeping the sabbath is a concept created by man. It is never stated in scriptures that one has anything to do with the other.

and I never stated that they had anything to do with each other except that Jesus fulfilled them both.

its okay, the Sabbath fulfillment just might not be as OBVIOUS to you.

 

[Shiloah]

When scriptures speak of not being servants to the law, I would think it would be obvious that it's speaking of not being servants to the sacrificial aspects of the law, especially when I don't think any of us would consider ourselves to be servants to doing right.

 

[Shiloah]

and I never stated that they had anything to do with each other except that Jesus fulfilled them both.

its okay, the Sabbath fulfillment just might not be as OBVIOUS to you.

Well it's pretty obvious to me that by Christ's fulfilling the Law, He didn't make us able to sin. Also, since the sabbath law is about showing we're the creator's people, what that has to do with Christ's sacrifice I do not know (as in, why would it be nullified since He's our creator?). We are still God's people, the creator, even more so after Christ's sacrifice.

 

[Ariel82]

You think I misunderstood what John832 was saying???
.

so the question:

Is Galatians 3: 24-25 "schoolmaster" referring to the law of animal sacrifices or the Law as declared in the 10 commandments?

hmmm........seems to be a difference of opinion.

Shiloah, John, which do YOU believe it refers to?

 

[Ariel82]

When scriptures speak of not being servants to the law, I would think it would be obvious that it's speaking of not being servants to the sacrificial aspects of the law, especially when I don't think any of us would consider ourselves to be servants to doing right.

it seems that you are reading scriptures with blinders on.

instead of reading what is written there you want to inject the word "sacrificial" in front of law.

i'm not sure if we are communicating clearly because this statement doesn't make sense to me. could you clarify?

"I don't think any of us would consider ourselves to be servants to doing right"

why wouldn't we think of ourselves as servants of doing right?

 

[Shiloah]

so the question:

Is Galatians 3: 24-25 "schoolmaster" referring to the law of animal sacrifices or the Law as declared in the 10 commandments?

hmmm........seems to be a difference of opinion.

Shiloah, John, which do YOU believe it refers to?

Do you people even read our responses? I answered this in post #107. If John meant something else other than everything he's stated besides that post, I don't understand his point either. But since he's said differently in other points, I'm not too worried about it. But I CLEARLY stated my position on this in #107.

 

[Shiloah]

You think I misunderstood what John832 was saying???

Galatians 3:17-26
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Now that I look at this, yeah, maybe the schoolmaster tells us both what sin is and what the consequences of sin are through animal sacrifices. That would make sense then what John said. The Law as a whole pointed us to Christ by way of pointing out sin and demonstrating the consequences. We are no longer under the Law then in the way of sacrificing animals for our sins.

But sin is still sin.

P.S. I would also say that if the law tells us what sin is, then the command to keep the sabbath would mean not keeping it as God commands His people to do would be sin.

 

[Ariel82]

another example of me not understand....

if you could clarify....

Well it's pretty obvious to me that by Christ's fulfilling the Law, He didn't make us able to sin.

didn't you just right that if we sinned JEsus would be our advocate instead of making animal sacrifices?

how then did Jesus make us unable to sin? or as you say "didn't make us able to sin"?

Also, since the sabbath law is about showing we're the creator's people, what that has to do with Christ's sacrifice I do not know (as in, why would it be nullified since He's our creator?). We are still God's people, the creator, even more so after Christ's sacrifice.

the Sabbath law didn't show us that we are God's people. in Genesis 1 on the sixth day, Adam was made in the image of God, Male and female they were made.

the reason the sabbath was created had nothing to do with declaring that we are God's people. that was evident before God even rested on the seventh day.

the Sabbath was created to remind us of Eden, to remind us of the houses JEsus went to heaven to prepare for us in our true homeland. to show God's mercy and grace as a SIGN of the hope of Rest. to allow people to keep the Faith in the promise of a Day when God will weep away all our tears.