A little food for thought.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#41
the Hebrew ((i'm told)) doesn't have a word for 'grandfather' or 'great grandfather' etc -- and generations are sometimes telescoped. so by saying Arba was the father of Anak,
In Joshua 14:15, he is called the "greatest man among the Anakites." The word means the head or the leader, today we would use the word patriarch.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,386
2,622
113
#43
Of course not but even though Satan was cast down to the earth he was never changed to flesh like the fallen angels were and neither were the angels who fallowed after Satan who were also cast down to the earth from heaven were changed to have bodies of flesh and bone. In fact Satan even today still has limited access to heaven.
I doubt that the fallen angels became flesh.... but I can be wrong :)
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,386
2,622
113
#44
yes. but is that all?

i mean, there's sodomy in practically every city in America today. there's been sodomy all over Europe for centuries, for thousands of years in some places. why haven't any of these been utterly destroyed by fire, yet?

i've listened to a lot of different preachers talk about Sodom. 50, more. maybe 75. i don't count. it seems that it occurs to almost none of them that there is anything more to be learned here than 'homosexuality is terrible bad' -- but i think, seriously?? Sodom & Gomorrah is a local extinction event. Gibeah is the extinction of almost the entire tribe of Benjamin. the flood is a world-wide extinction event. homosexuality is wickedness, but there is something incredibly evil happening in these places, and they are definitely linked together in scripture. in Judges 19-21, the people of Israel see parts of the body of a woman and immediately know they have to completely obliterate everything in the place it happened. they say nothing has been seen like this since before they came out of Egypt. do you think there was no homosexuality any of them had ever heard about before whatever it was in Gibeah? i don't think that's what they are recognizing has happened -- not by seeing a piece of a dead woman. does not fit.

((IMO))

God is patient. you could tell me, God is just being very merciful & patient. i can't - and won't even try to - argue with that :)
Love this post, thank you brother :)

I do believe it was something to do with the fact that the people in the time of Noah and Sodom were pure evil and homosexuality and sexual immorality was at the fore front of it all.

Remember that Noah had a grace period of 100 - 120 years (can't remember now of hand :) ) but still they had a grace period.

When Abraham had his discussion with God, God said to Him He will not uterlly destroy the city if a small number of His people could be found in them. I know it is hard to believe but in all these places there are still children of God living there and that just might be His grace :) .

I love how God can teach us His grace in events like these.

The other worrrying thing I can see unfolding over the last few years is all the supernatural nonsense they are feeding us in the movies. It wouldn't surprise me if these kind of demon possessed people start to appear more and more in the real world.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,386
2,622
113
#45
I teach a study on the promised seed of Genesis 3:15 and how Satan attacks the seed line through murder or sexual perversion. I believe this to be the case in Sodom. Almost every OT story is linked to the battle over the seed line.
When the human race begin to mix its seed... that is when God will pull the plug. As in the days of Noah and Sodom :)
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,386
2,622
113
#46
The flood only effected Noah's world. Today we would call that a biodiverse ecosystem. The only plants and animals on the Ark were from the Middle East. Not the whole world. Science and history goes a long way to help us understand what we read in our Bible. God gives us LOTS of evidence to work with. He wants us to know what HE has done.

There are 32 verses in Genesis 1. Yet a million science books would only begin to explain to us what God did in those 32 verses. This is why John 21:25 tells us: "I suppose the whole world could not contain the books that would be written." The Bible is infinite. One letter, even one stroke of the pen is infinite and every book in the world could not contain the wisdom, knowledge and understanding. They talk about the libraries in Heaven and how big they are and how the angels maintain them for us. So we have an answer for every question and a solution for any problem we will ever have.
The Bible teach us the whole earth and therefor I will say the whole earth :)

If you see the layers on top of dinosaurs discovered in the world it is easy to see that there must have been a huge body of water on top of it at some stage.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,524
113
#47
When the human race begin to mix its seed... that is when God will pull the plug. As in the days of Noah and Sodom :)
The human race is a mix of fleshly seeds of all nations . I'm a Heinz 57 variety going on 72. The seed of Christ is spiritual.. not seen .

When he comes on the last day and does not find the spiritual seed then he will pull the plug. Un like the days of Noah and Sodom the next the end of the corrupted world and universe.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,972
4,989
113
#48
No I do not understand when folks try to put into scripture that which is not mentioned in scripture. Again I say, There is not one single word in the Bible about how any of the wives of the sons of Noah could have had the blood of the giants running in their veins. So if it is not written in the Word of God, it is not.
Impossible! First of all the number 8 is the number that represents "A New Beginning" and one of the purposes of the flood was to wipe out the blood line of the giants on earth. Second, where is the scriptural proof that one or more of the wives of the sons of Noah had the blood of the giants in them?? Nowhere is it written in the Word Of God that one of the wives had the blood of a giant running in her veins. And what about God in this equation?? Does anybody think for a minute that God would have allowed a creator he was trying to wipe out slide by Him and get on the Ark to survive the flood, have more giants who would once again start a campaign to destroy men once more???? That would be saying that God does not have control and that Satan is so slick that he was able to out smart God. It would also mean that God doesn't have the ability to know what He allowed to board the Ark. The whole idea that one of the sons of Noah's wives had the blood of the giants in them is simply false with absolutely no scripture to re-enforce that concept.
I have put nothing, 0, into scripture with my post responding to your several.
If anyone has come close to doing such, it would have to be one taking out of scripture by unbelief.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#49
The Bible teach us the whole earth and therefor I will say the whole earth
The word used is Adamah. The word for the whole earth would be Erets. I did a study on this and what you are saying is simply not true. We know that the whole earth was not flooded at the time of Noah. There are two letters added for Adamah the Hey and the Mem. The mem represents water. Right now the information that we have to work with would indicate that Eden is still under water, under the persian gulf. There is no question that Noah was real person, with a real ark and a real flood. But the idea that the whole earth was flooded is simply not true. Noah's flood is an archetype of the flood that took place around 200 million years ago when the supercontinent of Pangea was flooded and destroyed. This is all supported by our understanding of plate tectonics. The plants and animals that Noah saved are what we would call domesticated. The use of archetypes in the Bible is difficult for some people to understand.

adamah: ground, land
Original Word: אֲדָמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: adamah
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-aw-maw')
Definition: ground, land
NAS Exhaustive Con

erets: earth, land
Original Word: אֶרֶץ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: erets
Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-rets)
Definition: earth, land
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,972
4,989
113
#50
Eretz has several levels of understanding, the land , the country of, like kEretz Israel, and the world.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,972
4,989
113
#51
המים גברו מאד מאד על־הארץ ויכסו כל־ההרים הגבהים אשׁר־תחת כל־השׁמים׃
Here above in bold it says "upon the earth," al haeretz. The Bible says here the waters prevailed upon the uearth under all the heavens, not some of the heavens. The word heaven, or hashamaim, is also used for the sky....no remission of working that the entire earth was flooded.

Having read the OT and NT in Hebrew there are times I feel I must post on the translations. It seems most important when individuals insist on putting themselves superior to others in such endeavor. I am not. I put fodrward what is in the Word as understood bby the Holy Spirit first and formost. My personal linguistic studies have no bearing on the level of my salvation nor does it on others. None of the apostles were learned yet they know more than any doctorate of what man has deemed theology. What a title! Theology, the study of theos, the study of our Maker...that is a joke.

We allo must endeavor to understand what He has freely given usn never to attempt to say we know Him so well as to write on "theology," if it were not so sad, I would laugh indeed.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#52
Here above in bold it says "upon the earth," al haeretz. The Bible says here the waters prevailed upon the uearth under all the heavens, not some of the heavens.
It is a FACT that the whole earth was NOT flooded at the time of NOAH'S flood. Why are you having trouble understanding that? Perhaps you need to study history, science and biology a little bit more. The Bible says to study to show yourself approved. When God has given us abundant overwhelming evidence then we need to look at what He is wanting us to know.

Also if you have a scripture then give us the reference. Don't expect us to try and find it for you. You have not give us ANY references. IF you want to have a Bible study then tell us the scripture you are wanting to study with us. It looks like your making this stuff up by trying to quote from memory instead of actually looking the reference up. The main point here seems to be the word ALL or KOL in the Hebrew. You seem to feel you have a scripture that says all of the Earth was flooded during Noah's flood. So give us what you have so we can all study this passage.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,972
4,989
113
#53
It is a FACT that the whole earth was NOT flooded at the time of NOAH'S flood. Why are you having trouble understanding that? Perhaps you need to study history, science and biology a little bit more. The Bible says to study to show yourself approved. When God has given us abundant overwhelming evidence then we need to look at what He is wanting us to know.

Also if you have a scripture then give us the reference. Don't expect us to try and find it for you. You have not give us ANY references. IF you want to have a Bible study then tell us the scripture you are wanting to study with us. It looks like your making this stuff up by trying to quote from memory instead of actually looking the reference up. The main point here seems to be the word ALL or KOL in the Hebrew. You seem to feel you have a scripture that says all of the Earth was flooded during Noah's flood. So give us what you have so we can all study this passage.
Let's see. I have studied linguistics, geology, and I am well enough versed in pshychology and astrophysices to have beenable to told my own in conversation with doctors of, that is phd's, astrophysiccs and psychology. All of these credentials are of no effect when discussing the learning by the Holy Spirit.
I have devised a theory or two based on my faith in God on the universe and its make-up proven tobe viable theories twenty-five years after the conception. Again, not worth a hill of beans when dealing with the gift of faith and believing God.
There is no consistent evidence tha there was never a global flood. Actually there are theories apart from faith that say the earth was once covered with water wich came from outside its origin, but again, it is just one scientific theory.
Do not assum about others, it is arrogant and ignorant, a very volatile and dangerous combination shared.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,415
2,448
113
#54
It is a FACT that the whole earth was NOT flooded at the time of NOAH'S flood. Why are you having trouble understanding that? Perhaps you need to study history, science and biology a little bit more. The Bible says to study to show yourself approved. When God has given us abundant overwhelming evidence then we need to look at what He is wanting us to know.

Also if you have a scripture then give us the reference. Don't expect us to try and find it for you. You have not give us ANY references. IF you want to have a Bible study then tell us the scripture you are wanting to study with us. It looks like your making this stuff up by trying to quote from memory instead of actually looking the reference up. The main point here seems to be the word ALL or KOL in the Hebrew. You seem to feel you have a scripture that says all of the Earth was flooded during Noah's flood. So give us what you have so we can all study this passage.
Let me guess, the whole earth does not really mean the whole earth. It was a local flood like a tsunami.

Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

Genesis 8:But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,386
2,622
113
#55
The word used is Adamah. The word for the whole earth would be Erets. I did a study on this and what you are saying is simply not true. We know that the whole earth was not flooded at the time of Noah. There are two letters added for Adamah the Hey and the Mem. The mem represents water. Right now the information that we have to work with would indicate that Eden is still under water, under the persian gulf. There is no question that Noah was real person, with a real ark and a real flood. But the idea that the whole earth was flooded is simply not true. Noah's flood is an archetype of the flood that took place around 200 million years ago when the supercontinent of Pangea was flooded and destroyed. This is all supported by our understanding of plate tectonics. The plants and animals that Noah saved are what we would call domesticated. The use of archetypes in the Bible is difficult for some people to understand.

adamah: ground, land
Original Word: אֲדָמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: adamah
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-aw-maw')
Definition: ground, land
NAS Exhaustive Con

erets: earth, land
Original Word: אֶרֶץ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: erets
Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-rets)
Definition: earth, land

My translation also say erets :unsure:
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,415
2,448
113
#56
Let me guess, the whole earth does not really mean the whole earth. It was a local flood like a tsunami.

Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

Genesis 8:But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
Not really the whole earth. God’s glory is localized.😉

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#57
I doubt that the fallen angels became flesh.... but I can be wrong :)
Jesus said: "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:30) "5For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”? (Hebrews1:5) "the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose." (Genesis 6:2)

I do not see any indication that the "sons of God" are angels. It looks like they are the Godly descendants of Adam and Eve. They are the sons of God because in Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul". The breath of life here in the Hebrew is "neshamah" נִשְׁמַ֣ת In Genesis 1:24 the word living is "Chay" חַי.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,972
4,989
113
#58
Let me guess, the whole earth does not really mean the whole earth. It was a local flood like a tsunami.

Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

Genesis 8:But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
It will not do you any good to make sense here.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#59
My translation also say erets :unsure:
What is your scripture reference. There are a few times that the word erets is used. Mostly the word Adamah is used in this passage. I already did this study a long time ago. The bottom line is that Noah's flood could NOT have been a worldwide flood. There is overwhelming evidence to show that Noah's flood is what we would call a local flood in the Tigris Euphrates River Valley in Ancient Mesopotamia. The current evidence that we have to work with right now would indicate that the Garden of Eden is under the Persian Gulf. That is why I studied the Bible to see if the Bible would support that Noah's flood was a "local" flood. I believe that is supported by the Bible. That is why I say there is NO conflict between Science and the Bible. High School students do not need to waste their time debating this. They can go to Church on Sunday and study the Bible. They can go to School on Monday and study Science and have full confidence that there is NO conflict at all. Science supports the Bible and the Bible supports Science and they go hand in hand.

But if you want to play this game then lets do it. If the flood was a worldwide flood how do you handle the life on the 10,000 islands in the Philippines? Did Noah go to all the Islands in the Pacific and pick up all the animals and then take them back to where he got them after the flood? What about the Kangaroo? Did they swim to the middle east to be saved by Noah, only to swim back to Australia after the flood? It is absurd to think that Noah's flood was a worldwide flood because NONE of the physical evidence supports that.

Bible interpretation - hermeneutics requires each and every generation to discover the Bible new for themselves and their generation. We can not look at the conclusion that past generations have arrived at because they had less evidence to examine and study. We have a lot more given to us. To whom much is given much is expected. You can not let your grandfather explain his understanding of the Bible. You have to discover truth for yourself. Truth needs to be fresh and new for every generation. I can not teach you the truth. You have to discover the truth for yourself.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,386
2,622
113
#60
Jesus said: "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:30) "5For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”? (Hebrews1:5) "the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose." (Genesis 6:2)

I do not see any indication that the "sons of God" are angels. It looks like they are the Godly descendants of Adam and Eve. They are the sons of God because in Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul". The breath of life here in the Hebrew is "neshamah" נִשְׁמַ֣ת In Genesis 1:24 the word living is "Chay" חַי.
I said fallen angels, so they turned away from their birth right. There are some that say they are now the demons and other say no the became like humans...

So was not all people born of Adam and Eve or do your distinction between Godley and non godley?