A new look at Galatians
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It has been established that you think "ALL who wish to follow law" are wrong, that has been done. The question before us now is being critical of the study of the history and scripture around Galatians. Posters are saying that if the person reporting this history has a different philosophy than they do, then that history also needs to be shunned as well as anyone who would dare think differently than they do.
Edgar Allan Poe was a drunk, but I appreciate his poem "The Raven".
So posters are bringing up how their philosophy of scripture is superior, and nothing about studying Galatians!!
Edgar Allan Poe was a drunk, but I appreciate his poem "The Raven".
So posters are bringing up how their philosophy of scripture is superior, and nothing about studying Galatians!!
E
It has been established that you think ALL who think one can not follow the law (just requirement). Are no longer under the law. And the Law can not show us how to be righteous people are wrong. And not only wrong, But believe we think it is OK to live in sin, OK to totally ignore the Whole OT, and other false premises about us
So I must ask a question. What good does bashing each other and what is already know do to this discussion?
All you have just done is take something which does not relate to the thread, and done just what we were just claiming.
Well why did you not just start here, Instead of saying something completely off topic.
Are you not saying this yourself? only in your own perspective?
great, lets study galations.
So I must ask a question. What good does bashing each other and what is already know do to this discussion?
All you have just done is take something which does not relate to the thread, and done just what we were just claiming.
Well why did you not just start here, Instead of saying something completely off topic.
Are you not saying this yourself? only in your own perspective?
great, lets study galations.
Yippee!!
And isn't it amazing, the problems that Paul and the Galatians were facing, and how Galatians solves them. It clears up what is said in Galatians when we can hear it from the viewpoint of what these problems were that they were facing.
God is making so much history of the people He used to give us spiritual truth available to us, now that has been hidden so many years. We have such a wide gulf of time separating us from these people, I think it is not serendipity that does this, but it is God's hand.
And isn't it amazing, the problems that Paul and the Galatians were facing, and how Galatians solves them. It clears up what is said in Galatians when we can hear it from the viewpoint of what these problems were that they were facing.
God is making so much history of the people He used to give us spiritual truth available to us, now that has been hidden so many years. We have such a wide gulf of time separating us from these people, I think it is not serendipity that does this, but it is God's hand.
E
The few things we must understand.
1. Paul started this book out different than the others.
2. He immediately went into chastening the church.
3. he is amazed that so soon after he left. The galation church was so easily and quickly fooled by jews who were distorting the gospel of Christ, And its character, and adding the law to the christian life (basically saying, Yes, it is ok that you have found Christ, Thats awsome. But if you want to stay saved, You better look to How God showed us, You better follow the law. Including the law of circumcision)
4. He shows his anger, by not only chastening but condemning to hell those who would not only preach it but follow it.
1. Paul started this book out different than the others.
2. He immediately went into chastening the church.
3. he is amazed that so soon after he left. The galation church was so easily and quickly fooled by jews who were distorting the gospel of Christ, And its character, and adding the law to the christian life (basically saying, Yes, it is ok that you have found Christ, Thats awsome. But if you want to stay saved, You better look to How God showed us, You better follow the law. Including the law of circumcision)
4. He shows his anger, by not only chastening but condemning to hell those who would not only preach it but follow it.
E
why would I say this? Is this not what he said? Or do you think he said something different?
Also note. I have studied history. I teach in church, I Must study history as this is part of hermeneutics. If I did not study history. I would not be doing my job of helping help Sheppard the flock God has given to me.
Now. Do you have a problem with some of the points I made and would like to discuss them, or are you just going to attack. which is no discussion whatsoever.
Also note. I have studied history. I teach in church, I Must study history as this is part of hermeneutics. If I did not study history. I would not be doing my job of helping help Sheppard the flock God has given to me.
Now. Do you have a problem with some of the points I made and would like to discuss them, or are you just going to attack. which is no discussion whatsoever.
I don't know, why we can't just study Galatians? Because when I posted long passages from Galatians back on the first page, you flew at me like a vicious wolverine, instead of answering me back with more passages from Galatians. I ignored it and kept talking about Galatians, and how our own opinions or world view informs those concepts. I quoted scholars, added history, as well as many others, and you just kept harping on your heretical Bible study. Not even talking about the study, not answering the passages I posted, because THERE WERE NO ANSWERS!
Just because something is "new" doesn't mean it is good, right, or orthodox. Heresies are usually new, but they are also old, in that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.
The Galatians were hit by Judiasers, and Paul had to chastise them to return to the REAL gospel. That is what the book is about. Every commentary, every link, every single Bible study that has been written about Galatians is in agreement with this statement. Except your weirdo Bible study that you must have searched long and hard to find. But then, there are a lot of nuts on the internet, so maybe it was easier than I can imagine.
Yes, every single scholarly source agrees that Paul was writing a letter to a people who had lost their way, via the lies of the Pharisees. Except your weird, whacky and misinterpreted Bible study. I won't read an internet document written by people who use the Talmud as a commentary. When I went to the Orthodox synagogue, I had the opportunity to read large passages of commentaries on Isaiah and Ezekiel, and it was laughable. It was the words of some Pharisees justifying the law, and in a lot of places it actually corrected the Old Testament, saying it was not true.
You are going to have to do a lot better than this, Redtent, to convince anyone your motive is to study this unorthodox internet study by a bunch of Judiazers. Oh wait, I guess they must conclude that Paul was wrong, and salvation comes through obeying the law??? Who knows or cares, I won't be reading it.
I have the real Bible to read, and not waste my time on such utter nonsense.
So to conclude my participation in the Galatians Bible study:
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. " Gal. 6:7-8
"Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. [SUP]14 [/SUP]May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation." Gal. 6:12-15
Just because something is "new" doesn't mean it is good, right, or orthodox. Heresies are usually new, but they are also old, in that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.
The Galatians were hit by Judiasers, and Paul had to chastise them to return to the REAL gospel. That is what the book is about. Every commentary, every link, every single Bible study that has been written about Galatians is in agreement with this statement. Except your weirdo Bible study that you must have searched long and hard to find. But then, there are a lot of nuts on the internet, so maybe it was easier than I can imagine.
Yes, every single scholarly source agrees that Paul was writing a letter to a people who had lost their way, via the lies of the Pharisees. Except your weird, whacky and misinterpreted Bible study. I won't read an internet document written by people who use the Talmud as a commentary. When I went to the Orthodox synagogue, I had the opportunity to read large passages of commentaries on Isaiah and Ezekiel, and it was laughable. It was the words of some Pharisees justifying the law, and in a lot of places it actually corrected the Old Testament, saying it was not true.
You are going to have to do a lot better than this, Redtent, to convince anyone your motive is to study this unorthodox internet study by a bunch of Judiazers. Oh wait, I guess they must conclude that Paul was wrong, and salvation comes through obeying the law??? Who knows or cares, I won't be reading it.
I have the real Bible to read, and not waste my time on such utter nonsense.
So to conclude my participation in the Galatians Bible study:
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. " Gal. 6:7-8
"Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. [SUP]14 [/SUP]May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation." Gal. 6:12-15
I attack!!
I see that you would like to give a study of Galatians, and you say you are qualified. You seem to feel your qualifications are superior to the study I suggest.
I found that there is much history that has been uncovered, and trying to find men who know it and teach it is very difficult. I have traced some of them and found them in prestigious colleges, teaching, and to be one of their students costs a lot of money that I don't have. These findings are just beginning to sift down to the general public. You say you are one of these experts. I would need more indication that you are. I would need the source of your training.
I found some of the things you teach not in keeping with what scripture says. That makes me leery of having you teach me about Galatians. As an example, this study goes deeply into the meaning of "Law of Moses" based on history. You and I could not discuss this as your mind is completely closed to anything except your definition. In fact, it is so completely closed that the very suggestion of history turning up a different meaning would be met with judgment of a person suggesting it to you, mockery, attacks, the works. I have met you, remember?
I see that you would like to give a study of Galatians, and you say you are qualified. You seem to feel your qualifications are superior to the study I suggest.
I found that there is much history that has been uncovered, and trying to find men who know it and teach it is very difficult. I have traced some of them and found them in prestigious colleges, teaching, and to be one of their students costs a lot of money that I don't have. These findings are just beginning to sift down to the general public. You say you are one of these experts. I would need more indication that you are. I would need the source of your training.
I found some of the things you teach not in keeping with what scripture says. That makes me leery of having you teach me about Galatians. As an example, this study goes deeply into the meaning of "Law of Moses" based on history. You and I could not discuss this as your mind is completely closed to anything except your definition. In fact, it is so completely closed that the very suggestion of history turning up a different meaning would be met with judgment of a person suggesting it to you, mockery, attacks, the works. I have met you, remember?
E
Yes you did attack. You did not make any comments about what I said, you just attacked.
Do you want to study galations. Or what someone else said. I thought you said you wanted to study. You even got excited when I said good lets do it.
Ever heard of the HS. Do you think Peter had to go to school to be able to study history and the OT to learn about it?
There are many books, Many commentaries. Many historians we can learn from. Where do you think they got their learning from?
History is my favorite subject, would you like to talk about it. I would love to. But I thought this was about galations?
And I found some things you teach which does not keep with what the scripture says.
Here we go again, Is this all you want to do is tell each other what you think of them? How is that helping ANYONE learn about galations?
I have over 30 years studying the law of moses, its implications, and its meaning, I also have the same studying prophesy, its meaning and its implications.
If you do not want to listen to me thats fine, I am neither demanding you listen to me, or even asking you to.
You said you wanted to discuss galation. is this what you want to do. or do you just want to attack everyone who does not agree with you?
Do you want to study galations. Or what someone else said. I thought you said you wanted to study. You even got excited when I said good lets do it.
Ever heard of the HS. Do you think Peter had to go to school to be able to study history and the OT to learn about it?
There are many books, Many commentaries. Many historians we can learn from. Where do you think they got their learning from?
History is my favorite subject, would you like to talk about it. I would love to. But I thought this was about galations?
And I found some things you teach which does not keep with what the scripture says.
Here we go again, Is this all you want to do is tell each other what you think of them? How is that helping ANYONE learn about galations?
I have over 30 years studying the law of moses, its implications, and its meaning, I also have the same studying prophesy, its meaning and its implications.
If you do not want to listen to me thats fine, I am neither demanding you listen to me, or even asking you to.
You said you wanted to discuss galation. is this what you want to do. or do you just want to attack everyone who does not agree with you?
Then why are you attempting to attain it through observance of the Law?
You are precisely the type of believer that Paul wrote to in his letter to the Galatians:
If your goal is the Fruit of the Spirit, the Law will not get you there.
The Scriptures are clear.
-JGIG
You are precisely the type of believer that Paul wrote to in his letter to the Galatians:
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (from Gal. 3)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (from Gal. 3)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
If your goal is the Fruit of the Spirit, the Law will not get you there.
The Scriptures are clear.
-JGIG
Seems to me that the Pharisaical doctrine was against breaking any of their traditions, and that's the very reason Jesus was crucified. Now days anyone who dares break traditions is labeled as on who distorts the Word of God is called a legalizer, and a modern day Pharisee. With that said, "anti law" people have now become modern day Pharisees.
Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
If people could only get it into their heads that Jesus created all things in order to fulfill all things, this ridiculousness would cease. How in heavens name can we make void something that is supposed to be fulfilled? If that were possible, then the fulfilling of the law through Jesus would mean nothing. Ya can't fulfill something that isn't there. You cannot complete a project by making the last piece different than what was originally planed.
If Jesus gave the law to Moses, (which he did according to Colossians chapter 1) because He created ALL things, why would he want it deleted or changed? Are we really smarter than He is? Get real people! Wake up!
I have seen no one in CC that advocates the Law as profitable say that we must deny Christ, or any part of the New Testament. On the contrary. By changing or making void what was before Christ's birth, according to "traditions" also makes His fulfillment void.
Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
If people could only get it into their heads that Jesus created all things in order to fulfill all things, this ridiculousness would cease. How in heavens name can we make void something that is supposed to be fulfilled? If that were possible, then the fulfilling of the law through Jesus would mean nothing. Ya can't fulfill something that isn't there. You cannot complete a project by making the last piece different than what was originally planed.
If Jesus gave the law to Moses, (which he did according to Colossians chapter 1) because He created ALL things, why would he want it deleted or changed? Are we really smarter than He is? Get real people! Wake up!
I have seen no one in CC that advocates the Law as profitable say that we must deny Christ, or any part of the New Testament. On the contrary. By changing or making void what was before Christ's birth, according to "traditions" also makes His fulfillment void.
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Exactly. Everything must be filtered through the Work of Christ, through Whom every promise of God is yes and amen (1 Cor 1:20)
Check out this link: Rightly Dividing the Word: How to Read Your Bible Without Getting Confused
-JGIG
Check out this link: Rightly Dividing the Word: How to Read Your Bible Without Getting Confused
-JGIG
A study on Galatians: In reading the 7 church epistles let's look at how they pertain to doctrine, reproof and correction.
Romans - doctrinal, Corinthians - reproof, Galatians - correction
Ephesians - doctrinal, Philippians - reproof, Colossians - correction
Thessalonians - stands alone and needs no reproof or correction
Now Galatians is a letter to the churches dealing with correction.
Galatians 1:1-5 Opening and introductory to the churches of Galatia (to the church in general so to us)
And Paul starts off -
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him (God v15) that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
What is it Paul is saying? Who were 'troubling' them and perverting the gospel of Christ?
Discuss. . . . .
Romans - doctrinal, Corinthians - reproof, Galatians - correction
Ephesians - doctrinal, Philippians - reproof, Colossians - correction
Thessalonians - stands alone and needs no reproof or correction
Now Galatians is a letter to the churches dealing with correction.
Galatians 1:1-5 Opening and introductory to the churches of Galatia (to the church in general so to us)
And Paul starts off -
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him (God v15) that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
What is it Paul is saying? Who were 'troubling' them and perverting the gospel of Christ?
Discuss. . . . .
And this is the way a Christian thinks!! Wow!
Yes, I have searched long and hard to find the most accurate history. I do not read history as fact without also going into the author and where he got his information. After I sift through authors to find the best, I watch carefully to see if they have an agenda, and I found most do. They show it in the history they choose to tell about. Now, you call them weirdoes and you say that you have only true history. We are to go to you as the only expert. You think I could have saved myself study and all searching by simply obeying you. I don't think so.
Now, you say that I am following something new! As if history is new! I find that there is something new in some of the recent discoveries of what is old. Some of translating ancient languages is new.
Just as you distain all I have studied, I distain much of yours. Like judging everything the rabbis said nonsense including the history of ancient times they reveal because, as Christ said, a lot of it is nonsense. I find that often, because of your judgments you are unable to think.
Another indication of this type of judgment thinking is you condemning the 119th psalm as scripture to be listened to and quoted. You judge that means focusing on the OT so Christ is obscured. That is not balanced thinking.
Another indication of your type of thinking is your judgment of "judaizers". You are able to discern that the entire book of Galatians is about objecting to the rules Jews had for gentiles to join them. You are able to think that far, it is good. But with judging the foundation of your reasoning, I become a judaizer, even, for studying the OT to learn about God. You are constantly stating that if I do that I am discounting Christ and on and on judging me.
You are completely unable to hear anything this study has to say to decide pro or con about it, it would be beyond your ability to fit in with your way of thinking. You heard the word messianic, that brought out a stop to any thinking you would be able to do as your mind simply goes into judging mode and out comes weird, whacky, nonsense, focusing, to take the place of thinking.
Yes, I have searched long and hard to find the most accurate history. I do not read history as fact without also going into the author and where he got his information. After I sift through authors to find the best, I watch carefully to see if they have an agenda, and I found most do. They show it in the history they choose to tell about. Now, you call them weirdoes and you say that you have only true history. We are to go to you as the only expert. You think I could have saved myself study and all searching by simply obeying you. I don't think so.
Now, you say that I am following something new! As if history is new! I find that there is something new in some of the recent discoveries of what is old. Some of translating ancient languages is new.
Just as you distain all I have studied, I distain much of yours. Like judging everything the rabbis said nonsense including the history of ancient times they reveal because, as Christ said, a lot of it is nonsense. I find that often, because of your judgments you are unable to think.
Another indication of this type of judgment thinking is you condemning the 119th psalm as scripture to be listened to and quoted. You judge that means focusing on the OT so Christ is obscured. That is not balanced thinking.
Another indication of your type of thinking is your judgment of "judaizers". You are able to discern that the entire book of Galatians is about objecting to the rules Jews had for gentiles to join them. You are able to think that far, it is good. But with judging the foundation of your reasoning, I become a judaizer, even, for studying the OT to learn about God. You are constantly stating that if I do that I am discounting Christ and on and on judging me.
You are completely unable to hear anything this study has to say to decide pro or con about it, it would be beyond your ability to fit in with your way of thinking. You heard the word messianic, that brought out a stop to any thinking you would be able to do as your mind simply goes into judging mode and out comes weird, whacky, nonsense, focusing, to take the place of thinking.