A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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EG
Prophesy is foretelling the future.

Stones
Most that I've heard has either been what's the will or purpose that God has for an individual or a fellowship.
Click to expand...
EG
I am speaking of prophecy in scriptur sis, Not hat someone today thinks it is.

The prophet confirms the purpose of God that we most usually know within. That's foretelling the future or even knowing what is present is right.

How did I say anything different?

I don't believe preaching, out of a 5 point sermon prepared is prophecy. But, one can give what sounds like a sermon completely in the anointing. Like Smith Wigglesworth. I have the collection of his sermons and they weren't all that long.

Paul would be another example. Am sure he did both.

There is nothing wrong with teaching this way. Studying and then giving what is seen in scripture. But, speaking out of the anointing is different.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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OT grace:


H2603​
חָנַן

chânan


khaw-nan'


A primitive root (compare H2583); properly to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior; to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (that is, move to favor by petition): - beseech, X fair, (be, find, shew) favour (-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious (-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, X very.

Total KJV occurrences: 77

NT: grace:

G5485​

χάρις

charis

khar'-ece


From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Total KJV occurrences: 156


One is unmerited grace. The other is the power of Holy Spirit within us working.

Do really think that I pull stuff from the air EG?

And no need to insult. Remember the word pewsitter? I apologized.

Was abraham saved by grace or works

How about David? Abel? Noah? Moses? Jeremiah? Daniel? Or the people of Ninevah who repented at the teaching of Jonah?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Prophecy = gospel
Prophecy = "the revealing of concealed will". To prophesy is to declare the prophecy of God , as the word of God. example (for you shall surely die)

False Prophecy = "the revealing lying will". To prophesy is to declare the false prophecy of the father of lies , Example ( ye shall surely not die.)

One of the purposes of prophecy is the act of fortelling something, a tool used by God to prove he is the one true God. Another is it is a actuate historical record. Another it is a sealed book it becomes it own dictionary and source of how we can hear him through prophecy and the parables how they give us the unseen spiritual understanding .A accurate witness, its witness goes back to the beginning ."Let there be" and it was good ... or helps us understand a future even it remain prophecy. It what those send today with a desire to do the pleasure of God sent out with the gospel (prophecy) to do as prophets prophecy the word of God the gospel of our salvation. No need to add it it or take awy from it.
Gospel is a message or a declaration of good news

Prophesy is a fortelling of future events.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I said one time that we have misunderstanding because we don't have a good background on Jewish history and how they worshipped. Mikvah EG..

What is a mikvah?
See Article History. Alternative Titles: mikveh, miqwe. Mikvah, also spelled Mikveh
Mikveh
Mikveh or mikvah is a bath used for the purpose of ritual immersion in Judaism to achieve ritual purity.
en.wikipedia.org
, or Miqwe, (“collection [of water]”), in Judaism, a pool of natural water in which one bathes for the restoration of ritual purity.

It's a great study.
So the bible means nothing?

I believe the bible and what it says, You can have the mikeh and any other religious book.

Once again, you worry me sis.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Someone asked me how we know what is a false spirit or Holy Spirit. This came to me yesterday as I was posting on who Holy Spirit is.

Who's your daddy? In Matthew Jesus said Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Father. So who do you call Father? Actually the scriptures say the very same thing. If we all just stuck to what they say and not try to put our own human thinking to what can be seen so easily.


Rom 8:15  For you have not received a spirit of slavery that leads you into fear again. Instead, you have received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

Actually, Holy Spirit is the Spirit of both. But that's another thread and I will post there.
Not sure what this means in relation to my post sis.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You mean Israel the nation? Or Israel Jacob?

I don't disagree with what you are saying here EG, but when I say church, I mean the body of Jesus on earth. But, that may not be accurate because in a church there may be both saved, and unsaved. We do know that the enemy sends those in to disrupt, but the body of Christ...the true Church of God cannot be penetrated.

So my answer would be at Pentecost.
My answer is ANYONE from adam and Eve until the last two saved people on earth, who has beeen saved By God is a part of the church

But Isreal (the nation) was also called a church

Ekklesia by defenition means a gathering of people.. It is not relegated to just the NT, In heaven we all will be one church. ..
 
Mar 14, 2011
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EG
Prophesy is foretelling the future.

Stones
Most that I've heard has either been what's the will or purpose that God has for an individual or a fellowship.
Click to expand...
EG
I am speaking of prophecy in scriptur sis, Not hat someone today thinks it is.

The prophet confirms the purpose of God that we most usually know within. That's foretelling the future or even knowing what is present is right.

How did I say anything different?

I don't believe preaching, out of a 5 point sermon prepared is prophecy. But, one can give what sounds like a sermon completely in the anointing. Like Smith Wigglesworth. I have the collection of his sermons and they weren't all that long.

Paul would be another example. Am sure he did both.

There is nothing wrong with teaching this way. Studying and then giving what is seen in scripture. But, speaking out of the anointing is different.
Teaching and prophesy are two different words with two different meansing sis.

Stick to what they are. And donlt let any church or anyone tell you they are the same.
Again, In Deuteronomy, God through moses wrote that a prophet speaks. The things MUST COME TRUE (the test if he is a true prophet) if it does not, he is not from God. I also believe they were to be executed for being false prophets.


It is not just teaching or a form of teaching.
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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Was abraham saved by grace or works

How about David? Abel? Noah? Moses? Jeremiah? Daniel? Or the people of Ninevah who repented at the teaching of Jonah?




MERCY!!


The real word for Mercy in the Hebrew is not singular in meaning at all. We read it our Bible and think MERCY is just a condition that has to end. That is because the English speaking mind could not phathom how this word was being used. But the word in Hebrew, when properly used, means MERCIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...a Mercy that NEVER ENDS.

We use Grace...We...as in....Gentiles, converted to God. Some of us may have heritage naturally, but most of us now fall under Gentile because we are mixed bloods. But when we think of Grace being NEVER ENDING in how Paul used it, because there was enough Greek to get a proper understanding that GRACE means NEVER ENDING...this is how the Jews get MERCY!! It was NEVER ENDING!!

So, Mercy/Grace are both working in the SAME MANNER!!

This is why we see Yeshua only claiming, the Mercy of God, is the reason why He was there. But to the Gentiles, it was the GRACE of God being the reason Yeshua was here.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Eg
I am speaking of prophecy in scriptur sis, Not hat someone today thinks it is.

Stones
Answered elsewhere.

EG
Prophesy is not teaching, Teaching is teaching,, Paul makes it clear. The gift of prophet is different than the gift of teaching.

Stones:
Didn't say it was the same. I said I was told by another member to tell you something. I tried but probably screwed it up because I can't find it to quote it. So will stick to me.


EG
As for speaking in someones life. Only if it can be verified. To many people think God told them to tell someone something and we come to find out it was not from God, the thing God supposedely said was either not true or could not be verified.

Stones
The purpose again is for confirmation or revealing the purpose of God. Not all are apostles and prophets who say they are. People can say anything. The body where one belongs will know.


EG
I gave you what the OT said concerning a prophet. The thing MUST COME TRUE.


Stones
I agree. Mine have.


EG
Abraham was counted as righteous He was saved, Dabid was called a man after Gods own heart. I am not sure where this thought comes from sis. A prophet spoke as God inspired him to speak or spoke through him, No prophet speaks from self. If he did, he is no prophet. How can a prophet foretell something and that thing be true unless it be from God.

Stones
I don't know when this word saved came into the posts. I said they didn't (OT) didn't go into heaven. That to me is salvation. Saved to be with the Lord forever, actually in the presence of Father. Maybe there is the confusion?
They went into Abrahams bosom. They were safe yes, but not in heaven. I also say they weren't born again as we know it. Holy Spirit did not take up residence within. There is where Dcon and UG say I'm wrong.


1. God spoke through them, How does not matter, it is no different than today that you can be assured
I disagree Upon not within.
2. Baptisms? Again sis who is teaching you this stuff. A prophet had to be a man of God already his child BEFORE he could get the gift or speaking.
Did I say he wasn't a man of God? NO.
No one did anything in the OT of any prophetic utterance unless they had the HS.

Agree
The only difference between their salvation and ours is we KNOW what God did to save us, they just had faith God would save them, not knowing how..

faith yes...we to heaven they to Abrahams bosom until Jesus released them during His entrance to hell.

Salvation has always been by grace through fatih. Never of works.
Am not sure. Sacrificial blood. Faith in being the seed of Abraham? Would have to look at that specifically.


The only baptism was the baptism of the children of levi in front of the children of Israel to show them who was priest (a symbol of what happens to us as NT priests)

already addressed.



3. The jews were saved by Grace, We are spiritually weashed (baptizm of the HS) and sealed (the anointing of the Holy Spirit) as the HS washes and comes into us. Thus we have available to us things they never did (except certain people) but our salvation is the same.

I don't agree with this. The new birth is repentance and receiving the Spirit of Christ. Asking Jesus into your heart is what we hear all the time. This is our sealing. But, Holy Spirit baptism is the power of ministry to others and the edifiying of our own being. We are clean through the Word. Jesus, the living Word, and continual cleansing by the word and sprinkling of blood on our conscience.


I gave you one example. All prophesy came the same way.

Well you still have not settled my worries.. If you explained more it did not help.

Good

EG
I am just giving you what the bible says, It does not matter what type of tongues sis.

stones
uh huh..

EG
Teaching by Tongues? That happened in acts 2
Revelation by tongues? God reveals a truth through tngues, which can be verified.

I am just going by what paul said

Stones
Yes if its interpreted but that isn't what was said. Maybe I misunderstood....much like you are doing with my postings.

EG
Yeah and what is that? You experienced what I as a teacher, or people who prayed experienced in the power of God?
Is this another mock? How else shouid I take this?


Lol.. Really?

Stones

I think you are referring to me saying I sat in those services. It's exactly what it says. I sat in services where salvation was the focus. Nothing wrong with it. So I understood what you said. Why would you think it was mocking?
A woman is saved from hell when she repents and comes to christ, someone praying in tongues can not save her, once again your worrying me[/QUOTE]
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I can have my mikvahs?

This is what our Lord was raised under and is the same thing going in Israel today. Sheesh EG....
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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When Ty was older (he lived till 75), the writers organization wanted to do his autobiography. He allowed 1 writer, under the condition of being Ty's servant during this period of time. It ended up being a couple of years this writer was with Ty daily, traveling to baseball events, the hall of fame, and to current games of that time period. And Ty just talked. He was brilliant in business by buying stock in many companies that ended up being big successes like Coke, stocks in big pharmacy manufacturer's, and all sorts of things. Married twice, but he loved every woman he met, so his marriages lasted about as long as a pair of socks. Ty just was lonely, and for some reason, he just talked about it all to this writer. They discussed it all from science, faith, common sense, how to chase women, it was just interesting how this all played out.

And then one day, Ty said, I have nothing more to say. He ordered the writer to pack and get off his property. The writer then and did what he was hired to do, write the Biography of Ty Cobb, from Ty's own words.


***But, it was the Baptist portions I never forgot. Ty was sincere and convinced of his beliefs. He was sold out what he was taught by the Baptist was a guaranteed 1 way ticket to Paradise. So Ty, put his human nature on full display, and called it "once saved always saved."***

:(

This is the origin of that phrase?
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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This is the origin of that phrase?




For followers of the game of baseball, followers of a specific team, followers of a specific player(s), those readers might think that is how it originated. But that sad message has been beat to death for centuries.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I can have my mikvahs?

This is what our Lord was raised under and is the same thing going in Israel today. Sheesh EG....
The lord was raised with Scripture Stones

If you want your mikvah, You can have it, I will take the one true book God gave me.. which can not be denied.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Endlessly repeating falsehoods does not render them true.

Unless you're a republican ;)


BETTER CHECK THE NEWS LATELY, ALL OF THE DEMONCRATS SUSPICIONS HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO BE JUST FALSE CLAIMS. :LOL:

Just so you know, I did not make false claims. I supported every statement with the appropriate Scriptures. So I do not care if you want to disagree with me, and still do not want to debate the subject.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I am speaking of prophecy in scriptur sis, Not hat someone today thinks it is.


Prophesy is not teaching, Teaching is teaching,, Paul makes it clear. The gift of prophet is different than the gift of teaching.

As for speaking in someones life. Only if it can be verified. To many people think God told them to tell someone something and we come to find out it was not from God, the thing God supposedely said was either not true or could not be verified.

I gave you what the OT said concerning a prophet. The thing MUST COME TRUE.


Abraham was counted as righteous He was saved, Dabid was called a man after Gods own heart. I am not sure where this thought comes from sis. A prophet spoke as God inspired him to speak or spoke through him, No prophet speaks from self. If he did, he is no prophet. How can a prophet foretell something and that thing be true unless it be from God.



1. God spoke through them, How does not matter, it is no different than today that you can be assured
2. Baptisms? Again sis who is teaching you this stuff. A prophet had to be a man of God already his child BEFORE he could get the gift or speaking. No one did anything in the OT of any prophetic utterance unless they had the HS. The only difference between their salvation and ours is we KNOW what God did to save us, they just had faith God would save them, not knowing how.. Salvation has always been by grace through fatih. Never of works. The only baptism was the baptism of the children of levi in front of the children of Israel to show them who was priest (a symbol of what happens to us as NT priests)
3. The jews were saved by Grace, We are spiritually weashed (baptizm of the HS) and sealed (the anointing of the Holy Spirit) as the HS washes and comes into us. Thus we have available to us things they never did (except certain people) but our salvation is the same.


I gave you one example. All prophesy came the same way.

Well you still have not settled my worries.. If you explained more it did not help.

Good

I am just giving you what the bible says, It does not matter what type of tongues sis.

Teaching by Tongues? That happened in acts 2
Revelation by tongues? God reveals a truth through tngues, which can be verified.

I am just going by what paul said

Yeah and what is that? You experienced what I as a teacher, or people who prayed experienced in the power of God?
Is this another mock? How else shouid I take this?


Lol.. Really?

A woman is saved from hell when she repents and comes to christ, someone praying in tongues can not save her, once again your worrying me
Amen.....
 
Mar 14, 2011
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BETTER CHECK THE NEWS LATELY, ALL OF THE DEMONCRATS SUSPICIONS HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO BE JUST FALSE CLAIMS. :LOL:

Just so you know, I did not make false claims. I supported every statement with the appropriate Scriptures. So I do not care if you want to disagree with me, and still do not want to debate the subject.
He must love the fake news channel
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Who says I reject that.....what I reject is the fact that you all deny cease, vanish away and fail in light of THAT, not HE, which is perfect (complete) is come........!! And why NO OTHER CHURCH in the N.T. was addressed on the issue OTHER THAN the spiritually IMMATURE, CARNAL Corinthian assembly that had SOME 15 ERRORS THAT NEEDED TO BE CORRECTED......