A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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Dec 12, 2013
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Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven, I agree with stones on this, He was taken up and his spirit would then have been sent to paradise..

Daniel saw a vision of heaven, But Paul actually went to heaven, Not sure if John actually went there or he had a vision such as Daniel,
I would disagree when it is viewed from the language....no man has ascended...<--key word and compared to Christ.....Christ ascended of his own free will and by his power....that is the context.....and the text does not say what you imply about Elijah and his spirit....IMV
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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The Mikvah is a ritual bath, the Hebrew word mikvah means a "pool" or "Gathering" of water. Two direct references in the Bible to Mikvah are in the Bible. In Leviticus 11:36 it is written:
"Only a spring and a pit, a gathering (Mikvah) of water, shall be clean..."
The second is Jeremiah 17:12-13 as it is written:
"A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. {13} O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters".
The word translated hope in verse 13 is Mikvah thus giving us the understanding that Messiah is the cleansing fountain/Mikvah or hope of Israel.

While Messiah still hung, on the cross a Roman "soldier pierced His side, immediately there came out blood and water"; John 19:34 NAS the opening of the cleansing fountain or Mikvah for Israel. In Zechariah 13:1 it is written:

"In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I would disagree when it is viewed from the language....no man has ascended...<--key word and compared to Christ.....Christ ascended of his own free will and by his power....that is the context.....and the text does not say what you imply about Elijah and his spirit....IMV
I still cant agree bro.

No one could have went to heaven with their sin still unforgiven.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Thanks for the advice.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?


10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.


12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?


13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Your very quote proves my point...Jesus EXPECTED HIM TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE TJE RESURRECTION.......!!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The Mikvah is a ritual bath, the Hebrew word mikvah means a "pool" or "Gathering" of water. Two direct references in the Bible to Mikvah are in the Bible. In Leviticus 11:36 it is written:
"Only a spring and a pit, a gathering (Mikvah) of water, shall be clean..."
The second is Jeremiah 17:12-13 as it is written:
"A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. {13} O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters".
The word translated hope in verse 13 is Mikvah thus giving us the understanding that Messiah is the cleansing fountain/Mikvah or hope of Israel.

While Messiah still hung, on the cross a Roman "soldier pierced His side, immediately there came out blood and water"; John 19:34 NAS the opening of the cleansing fountain or Mikvah for Israel. In Zechariah 13:1 it is written:

"In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness."
That does not make the mikvah Gods word

Again, You worry me sis, that you would take a book and declair it equal with scripture.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I still cant agree bro.

No one could have went to heaven with their sin still unforgiven.
Did not God offer to forgive CAIN and he said what exactly......did he walk with Adam and Eve after their sin, was David told his sin was forgiven......that premise does not measure up.....God is not bound by time and gramatically speaking everything was done before the earth was already cast down
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
This is not correct

Revelation or inspiration is giving Gods word

Prophecy is the act of fortelling something, It is a tool used by God to prove he is the one true God. Because no false god can tell the future and those events come true.

no

prophecy in its truest form is the FORTH-TELLING of of God's words...consider the OT...what was the main focus of the prophets....both minor and major?

it was trying to turn the Israelites back to God. there was also foretelling, but the major focus has always been God speaking through the prophet to His people...from Moses on

in the NT, the same applies. a prophet is one who speaks on behalf of God to God's people...the majority of prophecy, that is the foretelling, is included in our Bibles. further, people get prophecy, a word of knowledge and a word of wisdom confused

garee, for one, continues to state that tongues are prophecy and he is wrong and will not even consider that he is

yes, an event can be foretold but it might qualify as a word of knowledge...the Bible does mention the prophet who came to Paul and told him what would happen to him if he went to Rome (Paul went anyway)

we have to be careful because some want to add to scripture, while calling themselves a prophet, but I think it is clear the Bible is not being revised and or added to

one more thing: a false prophet/teacher can absolutely foretell an event or give a word to itching ears

be careful. do not dismiss the false as always failing...it would be easy to spot if that were so. I've seen plenty.

we are warned over and over to be on the watch for deception.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Did not God offer to forgive CAIN and he said what exactly......did he walk with Adam and Eve after their sin, was David told his sin was forgiven......that premise does not measure up.....God is not bound by time and gramatically speaking everything was done before the earth was already cast down
Still can’t agree, This does not help.

Its all good bro!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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That does not make the mikvah Gods word

Again, You worry me sis, that you would take a book and declair it equal with scripture.


Where did I ever say that the oral Torah was equal with scripture? You asked me where it is that Mikvah is seen. There is where. In those scriptures. But, the Jews highly value it. I am not a Jew.

What I said was we would understand moreso of the things said in the gospels if we knew the history of the Jews and what and why they did what they did.

You asked where was mutiple baptisms. I gave that to you.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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No was wrong, I didn't post this. So now...


Life for the average Jew, in the average village, depended on access to the mikvah. A man from the tribe of Levi, a son of Aaron could not assume his office as priest until he had gone through a mikvah. Before a person could be tahor/ritually clean to enter the grounds of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, he must be immersed in the mikvah. The severest punishment was imposed on a person for entering the Temple area in the state of tomeh/ritual impurity. A woman in her monthly cycle was required to ware special clothing so all would know that she was in a state of niddah (ritually unclean due to monthly cycle). She would not be tahor/ritually clean until after entering the mikvah. Immersion in a mikvah is an integral part of conversion to Judaism. Without immersion conversion is not valid. There are many more times an immersion in a mikvah is customary, we will endeavor to explore as many as space permits.
There are two basic parts of Torah, one is the written Torah consisting of the first five books of the Bible, with which we are all familiar. The second part of Torah is just as important but not as well known. It is what we call the Oral Torah or unwritten law. This was handed down orally from generation to generation for about 1,500 years. About the third century C.E. Oral Torah was put into writing by Rabbi Yehudah the Prince and is the foundation of Mishnah. The Talmud was formed after discussion and commentary was added. All Jewish law is derived from this Oral Torah. We might call it the "how to" book. Detail instructions on how to carry out all worship, the festivals, sacrifices, commandments, including ritual purification and preparing the mikvah are in Oral Torah.

http://www.hebroots.com/mikvah.html


Just to remind. I am not Hebraic Roots.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
No was wrong, I didn't post this. So now...


Life for the average Jew, in the average village, depended on access to the mikvah. A man from the tribe of Levi, a son of Aaron could not assume his office as priest until he had gone through a mikvah. Before a person could be tahor/ritually clean to enter the grounds of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, he must be immersed in the mikvah. The severest punishment was imposed on a person for entering the Temple area in the state of tomeh/ritual impurity. A woman in her monthly cycle was required to ware special clothing so all would know that she was in a state of niddah (ritually unclean due to monthly cycle). She would not be tahor/ritually clean until after entering the mikvah. Immersion in a mikvah is an integral part of conversion to Judaism. Without immersion conversion is not valid. There are many more times an immersion in a mikvah is customary, we will endeavor to explore as many as space permits.
There are two basic parts of Torah, one is the written Torah consisting of the first five books of the Bible, with which we are all familiar. The second part of Torah is just as important but not as well known. It is what we call the Oral Torah or unwritten law. This was handed down orally from generation to generation for about 1,500 years. About the third century C.E. Oral Torah was put into writing by Rabbi Yehudah the Prince and is the foundation of Mishnah. The Talmud was formed after discussion and commentary was added. All Jewish law is derived from this Oral Torah. We might call it the "how to" book. Detail instructions on how to carry out all worship, the festivals, sacrifices, commandments, including ritual purification and preparing the mikvah are in Oral Torah.

http://www.hebroots.com/mikvah.html


Just to remind. I am not Hebraic Roots.
The oral Torah is the Talmud, it has no credibility therefore, and it cannot be connected to the spear in the side of Jesus likened to the fountain in Zechariah
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Where did I ever say that the oral Torah was equal with scripture? You asked me where it is that Mikvah is seen. There is where. In those scriptures. But, the Jews highly value it. I am not a Jew.

What I said was we would understand moreso of the things said in the gospels if we knew the history of the Jews and what and why they did what they did.

You asked where was mutiple baptisms. I gave that to you.
The oral torah is I believe the talmud, which is not scripture

The torah is the name given to the first 5 books, also known as the torah. Or in English, the law

I have a great understanding of the law. And the history of OT jews Thats why God have us the OT so we can know. I mentioned scripute. You ention the mitsva

Baptisms?? Again, The law (the bible) said the priest and gentiles were baptised. Thats why I asked WHERE IN SCRIPTURE these baptims were mentioned.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I posted what was said about David.

You know Dcon. Debating and arguing this way cannot be right. It drives people away rather than towards the Lord.

I'm done.

Then does that mean that you are finished with arguing, and have decided to come to the Knowledge of the TRUTH ? ? ?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
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The oral torah is I believe the talmud, which is not scripture

The torah is the name given to the first 5 books, also known as the torah. Or in English, the law

I have a great understanding of the law. And the history of OT jews Thats why God have us the OT so we can know. I mentioned scripute. You ention the mitsva

Baptisms?? Again, The law (the bible) said the priest and gentiles were baptised. Thats why I asked WHERE IN SCRIPTURE these baptims were mentioned.


post #
Not sure what this means in relation to my post sis.


You said....

False Prophecy = "the revealing lying will". To prophesy is to declare the false prophecy of the father of lies , Example ( ye shall surely not die.)

False anything comes from another spirit ruling.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
The oral torah is I believe the talmud, which is not scripture

The torah is the name given to the first 5 books, also known as the torah. Or in English, the law

I have a great understanding of the law. And the history of OT jews Thats why God have us the OT so we can know. I mentioned scripute. You ention the mitsva

Baptisms?? Again, The law (the bible) said the priest and gentiles were baptised. Thats why I asked WHERE IN SCRIPTURE these baptims were mentioned.
Post 211
 
Mar 28, 2016
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garee, for one, continues to state that tongues are prophecy and he is wrong and will not even consider that he is
I think I would consider it if that is what the law conveyed.

Tongues is prophecy and in respect to the "sign of tongues" by which God brings his interpretation into to all the nations of the world and not in Hebrew alone .It is a sign of God mocking those hebrew that mock the word of God refusing to hear and believe His word prophecy.

And to this day unbelief to those who refuse to believe the word of God but seek after a signs and wonders gospel .(no faith from God's word) coming from their own mouths as oral traditions of men (Jerimiah 44)

Below is the law. What does it confirm as a "sign" and who is the sign in respect to ,

Believers that have faith that comes from hearing God through prophecy or unbeliever that have no faith no belief in prophecy of the Lord ?

Two groups of people believers having faith and those who believe not prophecy unbeliever, no faith

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22

I say the sign confirms unbelief in the heart of man.