A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No was wrong, I didn't post this. So now...


Life for the average Jew, in the average village, depended on access to the mikvah. A man from the tribe of Levi, a son of Aaron could not assume his office as priest until he had gone through a mikvah. Before a person could be tahor/ritually clean to enter the grounds of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, he must be immersed in the mikvah. The severest punishment was imposed on a person for entering the Temple area in the state of tomeh/ritual impurity. A woman in her monthly cycle was required to ware special clothing so all would know that she was in a state of niddah (ritually unclean due to monthly cycle). She would not be tahor/ritually clean until after entering the mikvah. Immersion in a mikvah is an integral part of conversion to Judaism. Without immersion conversion is not valid. There are many more times an immersion in a mikvah is customary, we will endeavor to explore as many as space permits.
There are two basic parts of Torah, one is the written Torah consisting of the first five books of the Bible, with which we are all familiar. The second part of Torah is just as important but not as well known. It is what we call the Oral Torah or unwritten law. This was handed down orally from generation to generation for about 1,500 years. About the third century C.E. Oral Torah was put into writing by Rabbi Yehudah the Prince and is the foundation of Mishnah. The Talmud was formed after discussion and commentary was added. All Jewish law is derived from this Oral Torah. We might call it the "how to" book. Detail instructions on how to carry out all worship, the festivals, sacrifices, commandments, including ritual purification and preparing the mikvah are in Oral Torah.

http://www.hebroots.com/mikvah.html


Just to remind. I am not Hebraic Roots.
Ok this makes more sense.

It is ceremonial washings. I thought you were talking about The book , which contained the torah as well as other laws.. also called the mitsva


What these washings did was picture or a symbol of What God was going to do for us. The washing,/baptism of the spirit.

God washes us, That is what all of those washings represented. Out plight against God is so severe, so desperate we must literally be WASHED before we can come into the presence of God


This is the purpose of the baptism of the spirit (Rom 6, 1 cor 12, col 2) were as aul said, it is not by works we have been saved but by Gods mercy through the washign (mitsva or baptism) and regeneration (new birth) of the holy spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's a question that does not apply to me. I am just giving history. Why cannot you understand this?
Because I looked it up when you first said it, a mitsvah is an hebrew word which means commandment, It is a guide which contains 620 commandments.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The whole concept of purifying bath?
This is what I found when I looked it up

its primary meaning, the Hebrew word mitzvah (/ˈmɪtsvə/;[1] meaning "commandment", מִצְוָה, [mit͡sˈva], Biblical: miṣwah; plural מִצְווֹת mitzvot [mit͡sˈvot], Biblical: miṣwoth; from צִוָּה ṣiwwah "command") refers to precepts and commandments commanded by God, with the additional connotation of one's religious duty.
It is used in rabbinical Judaism to refer to the 613 commandments given in the Torah at biblical Mount Sinai and the seven rabbinic commandments instituted later for a total of 620. The 613 commandments are divided into two categories: 365 negative commandments and 248 positive commandments. According to the Talmud, all moral laws are, or are derived from, divine commandments. The collection is part of the larger Jewish law or halakha.
The opinions of the Talmudic rabbis are divided between those who seek the purpose of the mitzvot and those who do not question them. The latter argue that if the reason for each mitzvah could be determined, people might try to achieve what they see as the purpose of the mitzvah, without actually performing the mitzvah itself (lishmah), which would become self-defeating. The former believe that if people were to understand the reason and the purpose for each mitzvah, it would actually help them to observe and perform the mitzvah (some mitzvot are given reasons in the Torah).
In its secondary meaning, Hebrew mitzvah, as with English "commandment", refers to a moral deed performed within a religious duty. As such, the term mitzvah has also come to express an individual act of human kindness in keeping with the law. The expression includes a sense of heartfelt sentiment beyond mere legal duty, as "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18). The tertiary meaning of mitzvah also refers to the fulfillment of a mitzvah.[citation needed]

Can people now understand the confusion
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
post #


You said....

False Prophecy = "the revealing lying will". To prophesy is to declare the false prophecy of the father of lies , Example ( ye shall surely not die.)

False anything comes from another spirit ruling.
Yeah and I stand by that.

You have not showed me anythign to change my view on what a false prophet or prophesy is.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
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Ok this makes more sense.

It is ceremonial washings. I thought you were talking about The book , which contained the torah as well as other laws.. also called the mitsva

What these washings did was picture or a symbol of What God was going to do for us. The washing,/baptism of the spirit.

God washes us, That is what all of those washings represented. Out plight against God is so severe, so desperate we must literally be WASHED before we can come into the presence of God

This is the purpose of the baptism of the spirit (Rom 6, 1 cor 12, col 2) were as aul said, it is not by works we have been saved but by Gods mercy through the washign (mitsva or baptism) and regeneration (new birth) of the holy spirit.


Romans 6 in the beginning of the chapter is speaking of water baptism and what it signifies in our lives. Dead to sin, alive to God. Rebirth.

1Cor 12 is about being baptized into the body of Jesus. This is Holy Spirit baptism and subsequent giftings, offices, administrations....

Colossians 2 My favorite book. Mainly the benfits of the Cross and more indepth to the new birth.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,384
4,325
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I said one time that we have misunderstanding because we don't have a good background on Jewish history and how they worshipped. Mikvah EG..

What is a mikvah?
See Article History. Alternative Titles: mikveh, miqwe. Mikvah, also spelled Mikveh
Mikveh
Mikveh or mikvah is a bath used for the purpose of ritual immersion in Judaism to achieve ritual purity.
en.wikipedia.org
, or Miqwe, (“collection [of water]”), in Judaism, a pool of natural water in which one bathes for the restoration of ritual purity.

It's a great study.

You probably know this, but the reason they got away with Baptizing the 3000, without offending the Jewish Sanhedrin, was thankfully do to the fact that their were SEVERAL MIKVAHS located in the Temple area.

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1553647679301.jpeg
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
Yeah and I stand by that.

You have not showed me anythign to change my view on what a false prophet or prophesy is.


EG

Why do you think I am trying to change your view?

We are totally off now on this thread that VCO started.



You don't believe in tongues...or maybe you don't trust the spiritual side of our life in Jesus Christ. So be it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Romans 6 in the beginning of the chapter is speaking of water baptism and what it signifies in our lives. Dead to sin, alive to God. Rebirth.


Romans 6 says we were baptised into Christ and his death, It has nothign to do with water baptism, this is spirit baptis,. Your pastor can not baptise you into christ, this is a false teaching because of a misinterpretation of the word.

It is the act of God the holy spirit baptising you into the death and burial of christ where your sins are washed.
1Cor 12 is about being baptized into the body of Jesus. This is Holy Spirit baptism and subsequent giftings, offices, administrations....
The baptism into christ does is not where you get your gifting from. You get your gifting because the holy spirit come INTO (anoint) You

You spoke of baptisms in the OT. You should also know the ceremonial introduction of the children of levi as priests

1. Washed (baptism)
2. Sacrifice given
3. Anointed (the holy oil representing the HS

Gifts come from number 3. Not number 1.

Colossians 2 My favorite book. Mainly the benfits of the Cross and more indepth to the new birth.
Col 2 speaks of the circumcision done by the hand of God vs the hands of men, Through being baptised by the work of the HS (again, HS baptism represents spiritual cleansing, or a fulfilment of the OT ceremonial washings or baptisms)

Since the topic of my post was baptism, I wuld have thought you would have looked at the baptism passages and seen them as Such
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG

Why do you think I am trying to change your view?

We are totally off now on this thread that VCO started.



You don't believe in tongues...or maybe you don't trust the spiritual side of our life in Jesus Christ. So be it.
I am trying to discuss the baptism of the spirit And other stuff we were talking about, and what it is and what it is not. I never said you were trying to change my view.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
Romans 6 says we were baptised into Christ and his death, It has nothign to do with water baptism, this is spirit baptis,. Your pastor can not baptise you into christ, this is a false teaching because of a misinterpretation of the word.

It is the act of God the holy spirit baptising you into the death and burial of christ where your sins are washed.

The baptism into christ does is not where you get your gifting from. You get your gifting because the holy spirit come INTO (anoint) You

You spoke of baptisms in the OT. You should also know the ceremonial introduction of the children of levi as priests

1. Washed (baptism)
2. Sacrifice given
3. Anointed (the holy oil representing the HS


Gifts come from number 3. Not number 1.


Col 2 speaks of the circumcision done by the hand of God vs the hands of men, Through being baptised by the work of the HS (again, HS baptism represents spiritual cleansing, or a fulfilment of the OT ceremonial washings or baptisms)

Since the topic of my post was baptism, I wuld have thought you would have looked at the baptism passages and seen them as Such
I don't agree with your understanding of the baptism of Holy Spirit EG, and we have come to an impasse on this subject, IMO. And I just gave the highlights of the chapters.

There's the subject now of chariots that I want to look at, plus some teaching that I've missed I need to catch up on.

Later... carry on the torch of faith alone! 😇
 

Mission21

Pathfinder
Mar 12, 2019
679
654
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Which fake news channel, CNN or Fox? Don't you know they are BOTH lying to you?
One of the best comments on this thread/topic.
- I am saying this..with sense of humor.
LOL
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,927
678
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TruthTalk, dcontroversal, eternally-gratefull, UnderGrace, garee, Didymous, wolfwint, and any other non-charismatic true Believer.

Please view these video all the way through, Thank You.


One of my Sister-inlaws used to attend BETHAL CHURCH, in Redding, CA. So I know of it second hand, and it was a MESS, and is obviously a demon control environment, and it is a CHURCH. Yes, BETHAL CHURCH is in REDDING, CA. and one of my Sister-inlaws, really was a member of it about 15 years ago. It is now gone WORLD WIDE, and is spreading like Wild Fire.

I can condone normal Pentecostals use of their tongues, even if I do not believe in them. Personally I think it is at it's best, a so-called spiritual toy, or just mindless gibberish.

However what is NOW being mis-identified as OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, is actually a form of Kundalini Awakening, an evil spirit invading the Church, and it is actually HINDUISM's false holy spirit, and nobody is actively TESTING THE SPIRIT, and they believe anything that is miraculous is of the Holy Spirit. They are following their Feelings and what they See, when those then can be manipulated by Satin and his Demons.

1 John 4:1 (HCSB)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.







Clear that this has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, thats demonic!!!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Which fake news channel, CNN or Fox? Don't you know they are BOTH lying to you?
Take your pic. MSNBC, CBS, ABC, its all about ratings now. Not about truth.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't agree with your understanding of the baptism of Holy Spirit EG, and we have come to an impasse on this subject, IMO. And I just gave the highlights of the chapters.

There's the subject now of chariots that I want to look at, plus some teaching that I've missed I need to catch up on.

Later... carry on the torch of faith alone! 😇
Thats too bad. The baptism of the spirit is what makes us saved, And hapens to ALL of Gds children (if it does not happen your not saved) it is not just a light subject.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Thats too bad. The baptism of the spirit is what makes us saved, And hapens to ALL of Gds children (if it does not happen your not saved) it is not just a light subject.

actually believing in Christ assures our salvation

I agree with stones...you have a rather convoluted interpretation with regards to the Holy Spirit

the NT makes it plain that we are SEALED with the Spirit of God when we believe

what is too bad, is how you you change what is said and post what you think and ignore the many times people tell you that they did not say what YOU said they say

you did this with stones through the last few pages

you are right the this is not a light subject which is why you should stop trying to teach on it since you do not understand it