A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[wolfwint]

A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES


....and non biblical "understanding"

Brother, why you attacking? You should read why he open this thread.
Its an biblical view, at least as much as yours.
Nobody denys God and His power!
Just read and agree ore disagree

But to attack shows less fruit of the Spirit.

 

[stonesoffire]

To be honest this biblical exergisis misses out on the blessing of spiritual gifts to the church.
Now there are non-believers among believers and things not of God spoken as if they are of God.

What would be honest is Gods encounters of tongues.
I have read of people on trains being spoken to by a believer who was speaking in tongues.
In our church, someone spoke in their language and another unknowingly translated the
prayer word for word as the next prayer.

So it is easy to doubt or create examples where evil has been done, or the fake been achieved.
What is simply not able to doubt Paul hoped all believers spoke in tongues and today
people experience the Holy Spirit with the gift of tongues.

"Funnily just as God can use tongues to bless, unbelievers can be possessed and use it to curse."

What is sad is when rather than trusting Gods blessing and His words in the believers lives,
other ideas are used to judge and condemn them.

But John is simple. Confess Jesus came in the flesh for the forgivenss of sins and rose again
from the dead, and the Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Nothing overthrows love in Christ and His word, and as long as this is followed all is good.

You said:

"Funnily just as God can use tongues to bless, unbelievers can be possessed and use it to curse."




Believers who have not yet understood grace can also curse others. And think it's a right to do so.

VCO

Those who speak through Holy Spirit aren't confused. We basically agree on the gifts and what they are. And how they are used. Disagreement comes with doctrine, and demonstrations of power cannot be made a doctrine other than in the name of Jesus and through grace by faith.

So who really is confused?

 

[RickyZ]

Where is the line drawn between correction and attack?

One man's correction is another man's attack.

I see positions on BOTH sides of the aisle as being incorrect.

 

[garee]

To be honest this biblical exergisis misses out on the blessing of spiritual gifts to the church.
Now there are non-believers among believers and things not of God spoken as if they are of God.

What would be honest is Gods encounters of tongues.
I have read of people on trains being spoken to by a believer who was speaking in tongues.
In our church, someone spoke in their language and another unknowingly translated the
prayer word for word as the next prayer.

So it is easy to doubt or create examples where evil has been done, or the fake been achieved.
What is simply not able to doubt Paul hoped all believers spoke in tongues and today
people experience the Holy Spirit with the gift of tongues.

Funnily just as God can use tongues to bless, unbelievers can be possessed and use it to curse.

What is sad is when rather than trusting Gods blessing and His words in the believers lives,
other ideas are used to judge and condemn them.

But John is simple. Confess Jesus came in the flesh for the forgivenss of sins and rose again
from the dead, and the Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Nothing overthrows love in Christ and His word, and as long as this is followed all is good.

Christians simply do not know God after the private interpretation of men .The words he speaks he interprets .he does not make a noise and say go find someone to inform you what I said. Not what do we think men say (flesh and blood) but what does His Holy Spirit say. (, But whom say ye that I am) if it is the private interptation of men then Catholicism has it correctly. It was then Peter's responsibly to correct Chris rebuking him as he did...... as in flesh and blood has revealed it.Turning things upside down as if they were loosed from earth and bound in heaven

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Mathew 16:15-17

Study to see what the sign confirms and who it is in respect to and a person could save much time. It would seem some are beating around the bush.

What does the law inform us?

 

[TruthTalk]

Brother, why you attacking? You should read why he open this thread.
Its an biblical view, at least as much as yours.
Nobody denys God and His power!
Just read and agree ore disagree

But to attack shows less fruit of the Spirit.

Hi and thank you wolfwint, we are all students of the bible. Fighting among each other does not edify the "Body of Christ" just bring out your counterpoints and move on, as VCO pointed out at the beginning of his thesis we all drink from the same Spirit;

Amen VCO, this is a beautiful point by point study of; "A Non-Charismatics Understanding of "Tongues"

1Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and
we were all given the one Spirit to drink

 

[Absolutely]

Hi and thank you wolfwint, we are all students of the bible. Fighting among each other does not edify the "Body of Christ" bring out your counterpoints and move on, as VCO pointed out at the beginning of his thesis we all drink from the same Spirit;

Amen VCO, this is a beautiful point by point study of; "A Non-Charismatics Understanding of "Tongues"

1Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink

Paul and about 4 or 5 others recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit AFTER SALVATION AND WATER BAPTISM
By the laying on of hands.
As vco mentions.
Oh wait,cessationists do not go there.
Pretend my verses dont exist and carry on

 

[Absolutely]

Where is the line drawn between correction and attack?

One man's correction is another man's attack.

I see positions on BOTH sides of the aisle as being incorrect.

Baptist policing charismatics is older than both of us.
It is a obcession.

They have no interest in searching it out,only cherry picking and policing.

They start out that way.
It is called " condemnation BEFORE investigation."

 

[Nehemiah6]

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful

And that is NOT a commendation or recommendation either. Please note the next verse:

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

What is Paul saying here? That both the mind and the spirit are to be engaged in prayers and in singing praises. Which is not possible if someone is speaking in tongues and "my understanding is unfruitful".

 

[Absolutely]

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

The power is the same.
God is not mental or of this world.
Those that doubt the word,do so wulith their mind

 

[Absolutely]

And that is NOT a commendation or recommendation either. Please note the next verse:

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

What is Paul saying here? That both the mind and the spirit are to be engaged in prayers and in singing praises. Which is not possible if someone is speaking in tongues and "my understanding is unfruitful".

Again,it is the starting place.
You START from a preconcieved position.
You just assume the understanding and spirit are the same.
Jesus showed us you are wrong.

 

[Absolutely]

....and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul convinced them of Jesus and after water baptism he laid hands on them and they recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Not only did they speak in tongues but prophesied.
Just like ole John Mcarthur teaches.
Oh wait,he needs that ingredient. Maybe take off the policeman uniform and get the Spirit of God in agreement with the WORD OF GOD

 

[Absolutely]

I know i recieved the baptised in the Holy Spirit about 3 months after conversion. It was awesome. Just like the Word of God says.
My testimony is AUTHENTICATED In the book of acts.

 

[Absolutely]

As i was posting in this thread my cat walked by with a dove in its jaws.
I tried to catch her to free it. She went under the house. I felt bad for the little DOVE. I turned and thought "what a gruesom cruel death" I was immediately prompted by the HOLY GHOST to go back to the spot she went in. I turned briefly to lay down my phone cause in my mind i was about to crawl under the house.
As soon as i turned around she was there right behind me walking with the DOVE. She submitted to release the DOVE, and away it flew trailing a few feathers.

RELEASE THE DOVE FOLKS. BE FREE. LET THE HOLY GHOST COME IN!!!!
WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!
See how God lets you know you are on the right track????
My cat is a wild cat. She only lets me mess with her. She kills birds and lizards as was her former survival.
( a awesome lesson from a cat to those doing harm to the bessesd outpouring we witness in acts and for us same saints today)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I knew several baptists that secretly drank and ran around on their wives.
Under your error by association ,we are now free to label the entire baptist organization as anathema.

Plumbers as well since i once saw one doing xyz

Wow Dude, Did you even read the first part of the OP?

1. He said he did not want to argue
2. He said he considered this a minor subject. Which I agree, Eternal life does not depend on what we believe on this manner
3. He said he wantd to give a different point of view.
4. And it was for informational purposes only not to attack anyone

And here we are the first reponse to his post is

1. Attack
2. Belittle
3. A mock more than a response
4. Did nothing in your first few posts to even show you read anything he said, but attack it as non biblical with NO attempt to even discuss what was written.

Was it not you who attacked Myself DC and another person in another thread. For calling someone out. And here you are doing the very same thing.. Well if nothing else. Thanks for show how right I was to not respond to you in that post. Since is just goes to show you have nothing to add.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know i recieved the baptised in the Holy Spirit about 3 months after conversion. It was awesome. Just like the Word of God says.
My testimony is AUTHENTICATED In the book of acts.

So you were not saved unbtil 3 months after conversion? What happened three months after you wqere converted that all of a sudden woke God up to finally wash you r sins away so you could be saved?

Testimony? What tesimony? You came to Christ, converted, and God waited three months to save you? Thats not a testimony.

Seems like before you attack others you better learn some things first.

 

[TruthTalk]

So you were not saved unbtil 3 months after conversion? What happened three months after you wqere converted that all of a sudden woke God up to finally wash you r sins away so you could be saved?

Testimony? What tesimony? You came to Christ, converted, and God waited three months to save you? Thats not a testimony.

Seems like before you attack others you better learn some things first.

RELEASE THE DOVE FOLKS. BE FREE. LET THE HOLY GHOST COME IN!!!! WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!
See how God lets you know you are on the right track????

Hi E-g, I was going to engage Absolutely in a conversation but after reading his story about the cat and the dove and him saying this is why we should, "Let the Holy Ghost Come In!!!!" there was just to much emotion and not enough understanding that was brought to the subject. The bible say's we should worship with our spirit and also with our understanding wouldn't you agree.

Thank you for your insightful views on this subject, and I pray we can continue on with a peaceful dialog.

1 Corinthians 14:15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi E-g, I was going to engage Absolutely in a conversation but after reading his story about the cat and the dove and him saying this is why we should, "Let the Holy Ghost Come In!!!!" there was just to much emotion and not enough understanding that was brought to the subject. The bible say's we should worship with our spirit and also with our understanding wouldn't you agree.

Thank you for your insightful views on this subject, and I pray we can continue on with a peaceful dialog.

1 Corinthians 14:15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding

As with most issues, one of th emain focus is a misunderstanding of what happens at salvation.

It is important issue, if we got these issues resolved I think there would be so much less bickering.

 

[VCO]

The best, most complete study I have read on the subject......cease, vanish and fail speaks volumes......very good job bro......!!!!

NOW LET ME EXPLAIN. I do not think I personally in myself, had much to do this study. I believe it was the LORD'S WILL, with a WHOLE BUNCH of help from the Holy Spirit. I am a slow Reader with a bit of Adult Attention Deficit Disorder, yet HE kept me focused on that STUDY that took me nearly 6 month to complete, before I actually sat down to write out the original study. I had so many facts, figures, verses, and other Authors legitimate Opinions, in my head that I could have written a 300 page book easily. SOME HOW the HOLY SPIRIT put it on my heart when I finished page 12, that was ENOUGH, because if they did not Believe the First 12 Pages, they would not believe an additional 288 pages. The Book that I had found the MOST EYEOPENING was one I got from the Public Library; “The Mystery Religions” book by Samuel Angus. If I remember right, it has the most information of how the Charismatics mirror what the Pagans did 300 plus years before Christ. And in the Worship of Zues, if I remember right, the famous Plato even spoke in tongues and labeled it Divine Frenzy.

 

[VCO]

A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES


....and non biblical "understanding"

I have been insulted and bad mouthed by Charismatics and Pentecostals about writing exactly why we Non-Charismatics Churches do not believe in the Charismatic Experience, ever since I first penned this STUDY, back in the 80's. I have NOT heard anything new in almost 3 decades, so I am TIRED of Listening. If you THINK that I have not been exposed to IT, I was caught up in Kenneth Copeland, and thank GOD that HE OPENED MY EYES.

The OPENING LINE OF SEGMENT 1, I stated:

I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT.

So you can consider this your SECOND WARNING.

What happens after this if you continue to want to ARGUE ? ? ?

Simple, I will put you on my Ignore List.


I made it plain, that I did not write this for Charismatics or Pentecostals, I wrote this for Non-Charismatics, to understand and know how to give people a straight answer without ARGUMENTS, mostly coming from your side of the fence. Do you know that ARGUMENTS are not a sign of a Spirit Lead Person. No I do not even care if you disagree with me.

Ephesians 5:6 (HCSB)
6 Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for God’s wrath is coming on the disobedient because of these things.

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (HCSB)
3 If anyone teaches other doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness,
4 he is conceited, understanding nothing, but has a sick interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

 

[Didymous]

I knew several baptists that secretly drank and ran around on their wives.
Under your error by association ,we are now free to label the entire baptist organization as anathema.

Plumbers as well since i once saw one doing xyz

I've seen a lot more tongues-talkers living crazy-right out in the open. Ha

I knew several baptists that secretly drank and ran around on their wives.
Under your error by association ,we are now free to label the entire baptist organization as anathema.

Plumbers as well since i once saw one doing xyz

I consider Pentecostal/charismatics to be one extreme, and Baptists the other. I've never met or heard of a Baptist openly sinning, but I've witnessed many of the other extreme doing so, one guy showing up drunk at my house often-a proud tongues-speaker.