A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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#41
So you were not saved unbtil 3 months after conversion? What happened three months after you wqere converted that all of a sudden woke God up to finally wash you r sins away so you could be saved?

Testimony? What tesimony? You came to Christ, converted, and God waited three months to save you? Thats not a testimony.

Seems like before you attack others you better learn some things first.
Amen.......quite contrary to scripture.......but hey........as long as one can back flip down the isle hey......
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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#42
You are concurring to this.
A butcher job;

1 Cor. 13:4-5 NIV, “Love . . . is not self-seeking . . .”. Notice is says, Love is not self-seeking, yet it says in 1 Cor. 14:4 KJV, “He who speaks in an unknown tongue edifieth himself, . . .”. Also in the very same letter Paul said in 1 Cor. 10:23-24 KJV, “. . . but all things edify not. 24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's . . .”.

How rediculous to think God does not edify.

The WORD OF GOD DECLARES; "All scriptire is inspired by God and is profitable for instruction,rebuke,and EDIFICATION"

So silly how ceastionists condemn God himself for edifying his children.
What evil is spawned over attacking Gods power????
And note how vco left off " my mind is unfruitful"
I wonder why????
Cessationism is the art of cherrypicking and spin.
It begins. It has a starting place of preconcieved notions. It is a notion based on the assumption that Gods power has evaporated.
From that starting place they proceed.
Complain all you want. While there may be errors in this-as in all other threads-I've rarely seen threads by opponents of this that weren't rife with errors and just plain nonsense, and plenty of personal experience with little or no scriptural support.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,847
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#43
Baptist policing charismatics is older than both of us.
It is a obcession.

They have no interest in searching it out,only cherry picking and policing.

They start out that way.
It is called " condemnation BEFORE investigation."
You are not being very honest and or did not read the OP if you think the OP was cherry picking and policing........or just being obstinant.....!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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#44
Wow Dude, Did you even read the first part of the OP?

1. He said he did not want to argue
2. He said he considered this a minor subject. Which I agree, Eternal life does not depend on what we believe on this manner
3. He said he wantd to give a different point of view.
4. And it was for informational purposes only not to attack anyone


And here we are the first reponse to his post is

1. Attack
2. Belittle
3. A mock more than a response
4. Did nothing in your first few posts to even show you read anything he said, but attack it as non biblical with NO attempt to even discuss what was written.


Was it not you who attacked Myself DC and another person in another thread. For calling someone out. And here you are doing the very same thing.. Well if nothing else. Thanks for show how right I was to not respond to you in that post. Since is just goes to show you have nothing to add.
Amen.........
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,979
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#45
Wow Dude, Did you even read the first part of the OP?

1. He said he did not want to argue
2. He said he considered this a minor subject. Which I agree, Eternal life does not depend on what we believe on this manner
3. He said he wantd to give a different point of view.
4. And it was for informational purposes only not to attack anyone


And here we are the first reponse to his post is

1. Attack
2. Belittle
3. A mock more than a response
4. Did nothing in your first few posts to even show you read anything he said, but attack it as non biblical with NO attempt to even discuss what was written.


Was it not you who attacked Myself DC and another person in another thread. For calling someone out. And here you are doing the very same thing.. Well if nothing else. Thanks for show how right I was to not respond to you in that post. Since is just goes to show you have nothing to add.
Kelby said similar words. Yet what happened EG? Not saying you but another here who is being hypocritical.
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
388
141
43
#46
VCO, I have refuted most of the material you post in my thread on speaking in tongues, but plan to refute your various claims, (including your claim to speak for noncharimatic denominations) point by point on your thread, when I've finished with my own main points on my thread. It strikes me as arrogant and even patronizing for you to make so many controversial claims and then protest that you don't want a debate. Do you really expect your readers to simply embrace your false claims, stereotypes, and strawmen without challenge?
btw, No real NT scholar, trained in relevant Greco-Roman religions would accept your false and simplistic characterization of the history of religions scene and its relevance to Corinth.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,847
13,224
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#47
Kelby said similar words. Yet what happened EG? Not saying you but another here who is being hypocritical.
Hope you are not referencing me.....I have family and friends in the charismatic movement in and around Sullivan Missouri and that is exactly what they do....and to be honest, it is a very disturbing thing to view.....30 to 40 people all dancing around in some erratic, estatic very fleshly emotional worldly release with a handful uttering sounds akin to jibberish with no discernable words whatsoever at all.......and that is what I am talking about when I oppose the modern practice..............
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#48
I consider Pentecostal/charismatics to be one extreme, and Baptists the other.
What most Christians do not even realize is the it is Satan who made sure that modern tongues would (1) become a divisive force in Christianity, (2) distract Pentecostals/Charismatics from focusing on Christ, and put their focus on spiritual gifts and the Holy Spirit, and (3) distract Pentecostals/Charismatics from the critical focus on the preaching of the true Gospel, and bringing souls to Christ.

Any doctrine(s) which divides Christians is ultimately from Satan (through men). For example, Calvinism is another divisive set of man-made doctrines which perverts the Gospel. And of course, then we have the cults with their heretical ideas.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,979
1,488
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#49
Hope you are not referencing me.....I have family and friends in the charismatic movement in and around Sullivan Missouri and that is exactly what they do....and to be honest, it is a very disturbing thing to view.....30 to 40 people all dancing around in some erratic, estatic very fleshly emotional worldly release with a handful uttering sounds akin to jibberish with no discernable words whatsoever at all.......and that is what I am talking about when I oppose the modern practice..............
I don't remember you posting there so no I wasn't. The same one who protests all the threads on speaking in the power of Holy Spirit in unknown tongues.

Here protesting arguing or debate.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,979
1,488
113
#50
What most Christians do not even realize is the it is Satan who made sure that modern tongues would (1) become a divisive force in Christianity, (2) distract Pentecostals/Charismatics from focusing on Christ, and put their focus on spiritual gifts and the Holy Spirit, and (3) distract Pentecostals/Charismatics from the critical focus on the preaching of the true Gospel, and bringing souls to Christ.

Any doctrine(s) which divides Christians is ultimately from Satan (through men). For example, Calvinism is another divisive set of man-made doctrines which perverts the Gospel. And of course, then we have the cults with their heretical ideas.
Mr. Nehemiah, the focus of worshipping in Spirit and truth is always on Jesus and / or Father. Depending on what's been revealed to our hearts about either.

That's called revelation. Which is always ongoing in Holy Spirits revealing as we seek the Lord.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#52
Brother, why you attacking? You should read why he open this thread.
Its an biblical view, at least as much as yours.
Nobody denys God and His power!
Just read and agree ore disagree

But to attack shows less fruit of the Spirit.

I has been my experience that Most Pentecostals and Charismatics will ALWAYS ATTACK, when someone has an opinion OPPOSITE of their holy grail. The first family get together, after I wrote the Original A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES ended up with two of Sister-inlaws actually yelling at me from across the dining room table during lunch. That is why I started this post our with: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, hoping to avoid the inevitable ARGUMENT from the Charismatic and Pentecostal side of the issue.

In my opinion, their instant headed ARGUMENT, verifies it is NOT OF GOD.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#53
Hi and thank you wolfwint, we are all students of the bible. Fighting among each other does not edify the "Body of Christ" just bring out your counterpoints and move on, as VCO pointed out at the beginning of his thesis we all drink from the same Spirit;

Amen VCO, this is a beautiful point by point study of; "A Non-Charismatics Understanding of "Tongues"

1Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and
we were all given the one Spirit to drink

Thanks, And as far as I know, most non-charismatic Churches would agree with it 90 - 100%. It is Nothing New, it is the Traditional teachings on TONGUES. Only new teaching, is the Modern Day Charismatic and Pentecostal Teaching that started in 1906.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,489
2,526
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#54
I has been my experience that Most Pentecostals and Charismatics will ALWAYS ATTACK, when someone has an opinion OPPOSITE of their holy grail. The first family get together, after I wrote the Original A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES ended up with two of Sister-inlaws actually yelling at me from across the dining room table during lunch. That is why I started this post our with: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, hoping to avoid the inevitable ARGUMENT from the Charismatic and Pentecostal side of the issue.

In my opinion, their instant headed ARGUMENT, verifies it is NOT OF GOD.

OOPS, bottom line should be Heated ARGUMENT.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,011
5,480
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#55
I has been my experience that Most Pentecostals and Charismatics will ALWAYS ATTACK, when someone has an opinion OPPOSITE of their holy grail. The first family get together, after I wrote the Original A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES ended up with two of Sister-inlaws actually yelling at me from across the dining room table during lunch. That is why I started this post our with: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, hoping to avoid the inevitable ARGUMENT from the Charismatic and Pentecostal side of the issue.

In my opinion, their instant headed ARGUMENT, verifies it is NOT OF GOD.
I can state as having one and only one experience of speaking in tongues it is a psychological manifestation.

Interesting to note that studies using brain scans suggest disassociation, that is why people feel like there is higher power at work along with automaticity, the experience of the activity being performed by itself.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,489
2,526
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#56
Baptist policing charismatics is older than both of us.
It is a obcession.

They have no interest in searching it out,only cherry picking and policing.

They start out that way.
It is called " condemnation BEFORE investigation."

Insult was wasted, I am not a Baptist. DO NOT CONTINUE, I will put you on permanent IGNORE.
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
388
141
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#57
VCO,
Let me call your bluff and ask you 5 probing questions which even take into account posts you have erased:
(1) You claim to be the mouthpiece for other non-charismatic denominations about the glossolalia issue. If you were sadly distorting the actual positions of many of these denominations, would you even want to learn how this is so?

(2) You claim competence in the cultural and history-of[- religions background of Corinthian glossolalia. If your obvious lack of adequate academic relevant training in Greco-Roman religions could be demonstrated, would you even want to have this demonstrated to You?

(3) You express intolerance of any honest seekers who have conclude that your irrational screed against modern speaking in tongues badly distorts biblical teaching. So, sadly, it must be asked whether, if your claims here could be decisively refuted, would you even want to learn the reasons why?

(4) You dismiss anticipated criticism on the grounds that you haven't heard anything new on this subject in decades. So if new insights by better educated scholars could be presented to you that refute your claims, would you even want to learn from them?

(5) You threaten to press the "ignore" button if any one dares to challenge your interpretations. Can you understand why that sound like a little boy threatening to take his toys home, if others won't play by his rules? And consider this: if you ignore honest critiques from those who feel that you're perverting God's word, can you understand their indifferent to such a silly threat? And do you really want to be systematically and comprehensibly refuted without any reply from you?

My 5 questions are probing the question of whether you are even capable of honest and open intelellectual inquiry into the relevant issues. Stay tuned for my eventual comprehensive responses, whether you ignore me or not.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#59
As i was posting in this thread my cat walked by with a dove in its jaws.
I tried to catch her to free it. She went under the house. I felt bad for the little DOVE. I turned and thought "what a gruesom cruel death" I was immediately prompted by the HOLY GHOST to go back to the spot she went in. I turned briefly to lay down my phone cause in my mind i was about to crawl under the house.
As soon as i turned around she was there right behind me walking with the DOVE. She submitted to release the DOVE, and away it flew trailing a few feathers.

RELEASE THE DOVE FOLKS. BE FREE. LET THE HOLY GHOST COME IN!!!!
WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!
See how God lets you know you are on the right track????
My cat is a wild cat. She only lets me mess with her. She kills birds and lizards as was her former survival.
( a awesome lesson from a cat to those doing harm to the bessesd outpouring we witness in acts and for us same saints today)


I had the HOLY SPIRIT COME INTO MY HEART the MOMENT THAT I WAS SAVED, the last week of 1979; and HE has been TEACHING ME EVER SINCE. He is how you know HE is in you:

1 John 2:5 (HCSB)
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:

John 14:16-17 (CSBBible)
16 "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever.
17 He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive him because it doesn't see him or know him. But you do know him, because he remains with you and will be in you.
[Notice that was Before the Day of Pentecost.]


WOOOO HOOOOO!!!! Does Not EXIST, but then again, it could be a DECEIVING SPIRIT.

NO RESPONSE WANTED.



For the non-charismatic readers: Here is some INFO that I ran across AFTER I Published the STUDY. This video was published by a guy that described himself is Charismatic - Pentecostal Believer, that was deeply concerned that Deceiving Spirits had entered into their worship services in a great number of their Churches. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO WATCH VIDEO, it is Deceiving Spirit in the Charismatic Churches. I know of this personally, because one my Sister-inlaws was involved in one of the Churches mentioned in this video.

 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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#60
I can state as having one and only one experience of speaking in tongues it is a psychological manifestation.

Interesting to note that studies using brain scans suggest disassociation, that is why people feel like there is higher power at work along with automaticity, the experience of the activity being performed by itself.
So UnderGrace, I have never spoken in tongues and I do not have a desire to speak in tongues but I am curious about this spiritual gift. Would you be willing to describe your experience in speaking in tongues and why did you only have "one experience." A Christian friend once told me that if ask God to give me this gift He will, do you know if that is true.

Thank you and God bless.