A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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Mar 14, 2011
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Amen....same here.......amd what was described as blasphemy of the H.S. was denying the work of Christ as from GOD.....IT HAD ZERO to do with languages....!!!
It could be said we are denying the work they do is from God. So I can see some can and do believe that. Yet they are wrong.

But that is not what blasphemy of the spirit is.. It is rejecting the gospel which HE was sent to preach (or s=dissenting from the true gospel of Christ which is being proclained THROUGH the power of the HS
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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How can a non Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian who has not experienced the gift give an honest explanation of it!
An honest answer is that experiences are not to be equaled with the Word of God. The problem however is that no real gift of tongue exist today.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
An honest answer is that experiences are not to be equaled with the Word of God. The problem however is that no real gift of tongue exist today.
If it has it has, it has yet to be verified.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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If it has it has, it has yet to be verified.
Jesus in Mathew 4 did verify it 3 times he established the one source by which we can believe Him .Again and again he declared prophecy as it is written. He refused to worship the devil as a fallen angel who brought into his fleshly mind vision of grandeur. Christ believed not.

later in Colossians 2 he sent us a better description of those who look to fleshly experience intruding into those things he has not seen as a equal source of faith as the word of God. In the end they make the word of God to no effect.

Colossians 2; 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Jesus healed some people. The religious teachers said He did it by the power of satan. They were told they had just blasphemed the Holy Spirit because they had attributed the Spirit's work to the devil.

The Bible tells us to speak in tongues. But many religious "teachers" say it's not of God, therefore it must come from somewhere else, implying it is the work of satan/demons.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Jesus healed some people. The religious teachers said He did it by the power of satan. They were told they had just blasphemed the Holy Spirit because they had attributed the Spirit's work to the devil.

The Bible tells us to speak in tongues. But many religious "teachers" say it's not of God, therefore it must come from somewhere else, implying it is the work of satan/demons.
This discussion we have since Topeka and Azuza.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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They are TAUGHT that anyone who does not think that Tongues are for today, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Most of them believe that common teaching among Charismatics and Pentecostals alike. I have been been accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, SO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, that I could not even come close to numbering them.

I know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH TONGUES, but they will not even read my explanation. Some one needs to teach them what it means to be guilty of the one unforgivable SIN, and how it has nothing to do with their precious holy grail, but I know from past experience almost none will receive it from me.
1. you do not know what we believe
2 you were taught by John Mcarthur who leaves off my verses ( so you are taught of man by man)...and that ,not so well
3. There are only 2 powers . God and the devil
4. It was Jesus who told the pharisees they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Not a charismatic teacher . Since they attributed Gods power to the devil,they lost hope of heavens forgiveness. So evidently you also are ignorant of that no brainer component of Jesus' doctrine.

Now,could the slammers of the Holy Spirit repent,like in someday when you realize the devil can not answer my prayer for the baptism in the Holy Spirit?

You got a problem on 2 fronts.
1) you claim i,and millions others got the baptism in the Holy Spirit by the devil. (Which is impossible) Jesus even told you it is impossible. But of course ole John didn't teach you that.
2. You think think the devil points men into intimate relationship with God,which every one gets when they recieve the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Your deal is out of hell sir. Right out of hell.
What force do you think drives you and John Mcarthur to persecute the brethren and mock what they recieved from heaven?
It is demons doing that.
A good King James bible COULD permanently damage John Mcarthurs ignorance.......but only through the HOLY GHOST.... Since no brainers elude him.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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If it has it has, it has yet to be verified.
Jesus guaranteed it. I recieced it. The wrd authenticates my experience.
Who care what men think.
Read act around ch 2 or 3;
""....but some mocking said "these men are full of new wine""

You CAN NOT find any move of God where it was not opposed and mocked

So,ironically the opposition,in part ,adds to the authentication.

I recieved from heaven. No doubt. Irrefutable fact from heaven to me.
My experience is authenticated by Gods wonderful Holy Eternal word.
The oppostion and mocking are part of the deal.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Apparently they are big fans of the MRV ;)
You should see the clip of Mcarthur mocking a teenage girl singing to Jesus ;"fill me"
He turns it into a sick sexual deal.
I KNOW demons are working through the man
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Jesus healed some people. The religious teachers said He did it by the power of satan. They were told they had just blasphemed the Holy Spirit because they had attributed the Spirit's work to the devil.

The Bible tells us to speak in tongues. But many religious "teachers" say it's not of God, therefore it must come from somewhere else, implying it is the work of satan/demons.
I am so thankful that when i got saved it was during the charismatic revival.
I got saved like Paul,through an encounter with God. Nobody lead me.
I did not realize my experience was not a traditional sinners prayer.
I thought everybody got saved like me.
I never knew about baptists attacking brothers in christ till many years later.
I was appalled. It took me back trying to understand such blatant ignorance.
But now it is clear,and guess what? It WILL INCREASE.
Why? Because it is the last days and the call to be immersed in Jesus is loud and clear.
I say,let it happen. They are,evidently,not reachable.
In sense,i even identify with them.
Cause had i not recieved the Holy Spirit or gotten saved when and where i did,maybe i would be in there with them.
I shudder to think that. But they break my heart,because i know what i know about the Holy Spirit and also know they hurt Gods heart as well.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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You should see the clip of Mcarthur mocking a teenage girl singing to Jesus ;"fill me"
He turns it into a sick sexual deal.
I KNOW demons are working through the man
At the end of the time we will see who is wrong ore right. Takes patience. So we must not have war. Every side can claim to get mocking and opposition from the other.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Ok, flip that coin. Want to know how many times I've heard people tell me I believe you can't be saved unless you speak in tongues. Then argue black and blue with you when you tell them you don't believe that? Want to know how many times I've heard speaking in tongues is from demons? That's it's gibberish, or made up? I've heard the same thing for years. Do you understand there are two sides to it?

Now you are roping me into a discussion, that I really do not want to do. However, if you remain calm like you have above, I will condone it for a little while. You see, I believe your whole statement is true and YES, I understand both sides of the issue. I did not exaggerate about the shear NUMBER of times, because my study has been on three different Websites (not at the same time), THEY wanted me to debate them, while most end up YELLING at me, WITH THE BIGGEST FONT SIZE THERE IS. I have been called a Heretic, Blaspheming the Holy Spirit, A TOOL FOR SATAN, DEMON POSSESSED, and even some Names I will not use hear. Do not worry, I am not mad at you, I have heard it ALL BEFORE, MANY TIMES. All because I ONLY Believe the Genuine TONGUES was an APOSTOLIC tool only to convince Unbelieving JEWS that the new testament Words were of GOD, and the modern day tongues were nothing more than a feelings generated counterfeit. Notice I Differentiate between the two, with the lower case italics being the modern day. I have once close friends, that will not talk to me because of my beliefs, and like I already said, my two sister-inlaws literally yelled at me across table at dinner. I then went to the living room, after that, and when they came in, I went outside.


Let's start with your statement in RED Letters above. BUT understand there is NO CHANCE you can convince me it is REAL, and I seriously doubt if you will be convinced that it is not. I hope and pray that we can RESPECT Each Others views even if we disagree.

On that Statement above in red: I Believe the BIBLE LITERALLY, which makes speaking in tongues a NON-ISSUE, that is misapplied to at best.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

That is why SALVATION, can be a FREE GIFT FROM GOD, Eph. 2:8-9. SALVATION is actually PINPOINTED time wise, in Rev.

This verse starts off talking about the Image of the Beast that all people REMAINING AFTER THE RAPTURE, will WORSHIP IT.


Revelation 13:8-9 (NJB)
8 and all people of the world will worship it, that is, everybody whose name has not been written down since the foundation of the world in the sacrificial Lamb's book of life. [.That is exactly when we were saved, that wipes out everything that happened to us after that as part of SALVATION.] {Not yelling, that is emphasis.}
9 Let anyone who can hear, listen:


Here is your mistake about Blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

God says it is not HIS will, that any be lost. So the Holy Spirit is constantly working on the HEARTS of ALL mankind, even the unbelievers, to believe that JESUS IS THE Messiah and Creator. So if you take in and genuinely believe, the Message in the JESUS is the Messiah and Creator, {EVEN IF YOU CALL HIM by another Name, like The Great Spirit,} you can be SAVED. HOWEVER if you REJECT THAT MESSAGE, you have Blasphemed the WORK of the HOLY SPIRIT.

THAT IS BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,411
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Ok, flip that coin. Want to know how many times I've heard people tell me I believe you can't be saved unless you speak in tongues. Then argue black and blue with you when you tell them you don't believe that? Want to know how many times I've heard speaking in tongues is from demons? That's it's gibberish, or made up? I've heard the same thing for years. Do you understand there are two sides to it?
Did you like Emmy Kosgei music ?


I would like to tell you HOW I KNOW I WAS SAVED, and When the Holy Spirit came in, I will not leave any details out, but will be brief.

Back early January 1977 when I was 28 years old, (now I am 70), I met a gal at an all night Party. In a whirl wind romance of almost 6 months, we got married. And 6 months after that she demanded a divorce, Because I could not earn enough money to buy her what she wanted in life. SOME REASON. That was on Christmas EVE no less, when we were suppose to go to my parents house.

I sank into DEEP DEPRESSION, and in the last week of 1977, I attempted suicide THREE TIMES, during that week. I just wanted to CEASE to exist, so I did not care if I hurt my parents, I did not care if I hurt my bother and sister, and I did not care if I hurt my friends via my suicide. The first two times I had a pistol to my head, and that trigger was a fairly light trigger, so with the trigger half pulled, SHEAR TERROR CAME OVER ME, more TERROR than anyone with a knife to my throat could EVER put into me. The first time I felt that kind of FEAR, I dropped the Pistol and it landed on the bed. Then NEXT Night I tried again, and the SAME TERROR came over me, and I dropped the pistol, and it LANDED ON THE FLOOR! I have NO idea why that Pistol did not go off, as with the hammer cocked, and trigger have pulled. I must tell you, on that second night, I had my soon to be ex-wife, on the Phone, because I WANTED HER TO HEAR THE FATAL SHOT.

Two nights later, I tried for the Third Time. That afternoon, I saw the road crew pouring a thick layer of gravel on a dirt road near my house. That evening, I went to the bar and proceeded to get as drunk as three guy could ever get. When the bar closed, I got on my bike {Suzuki 185} and when home to DELIBERATELY Leave my helmet there, and then got on the bike, and rode to the LOOSE GRAVELED RODE. What I did when I got near the LOOSE GRAVEL, I am more ashamed of than anything else. I literally TAUNTED GOD, yelling, "If you want me, you can have me, ANYWHERE YOU WANT ME ON THIS MILE!" Please, do not think it is alright to test GOD like that, I KNEW IT WAS WRONG!! He had every right to let me kill myself that night.

I opened it to full throttle, wide open, and with NO HELMET, and leaning out over the handle bars, so that I would hit head first with NO HELMET, when I lost control.

I hit END of the loose Gravel mile, the most dangerous surface you can ride a bike on, and came out on the pavement. I stopped the bike and looked back at the loose gravel rode for a few seconds, in bewilderment. I went home very slowly, about 2:00 AM, and sat up until about 5:00 AM, Sobering UP, and wondering what just HAPPENED! I walked to my bedroom, and as I entered, a STARTLING THOUGHT ENTERED MY HEAD. I cannot ride a bike like that, even SOBER!" I realized that THAT GOD HAD TO HAVE REACHED DOWN AND GRABBED MY BIKE AND SAID, "NO YOU DON'T, I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE!"

SUDDENLY WAVE AFTER WAVE OF EXTREME GUILT WASHED OVER ME, NOT JUST FOR ATTEMPTING SUICIDE, BUT MY WHOLE LIFESTYLE WAS A OFFENCE TO MY LORD. I started weeping uncontrollably on my knees at first, but later on I was Prostrate, CONTINUALLY PRAYING, PLEASE FORGIVE ME, PLEASE FORGIVE ME! I Cried and Prayed like that FOR OVER AN HOUR OR MORE.

THEN SOMETHING HAPPENED TO ME! I either Had a GOD GIVEN DREAM, or A VISION, and I cannot tell you for sure which. If it was a DREAM, it was the MOST VIVID DREAM I EVER HAD. I was still CRYING and Praying, LORD FORGIVE ME, Please FORGIVE ME!, on my KNEES, AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS, LOOKING UP AND REACHING UP TO HIM. Through the tears I notice NAILS WERE THROUGH HIS WRISTS, and not in the hands. No one at that time ever mention that JEWS consider the Wrist to be part of the Hands, and the only pictures I had seen they were in the PALM of the HANDS.

I even prayed, "LORD, if you have a purpose for my life, you will have come into it and do it. I CAN NOT DO IT, I AM MAKING A MESS OF IT." No one in the Lutheran Church EVER taught me to pray like that, I BELIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT PUT THAT PRAYER IN MY HEART.

I was still on my KNEES reaching up to HIM and I SAW BLOOD DRIP FROM THE NAILS, and it FELL ON MY FOREARMS. To my Surprise, the BLOOD WAS WARM. I KNEW THAT MEANT, I WAS FORGIVEN.

That is where the DREAM or VISION Ended.

I knew I had TOTALLY SURRENDERED TO JESUS CHRIST, and would NEVER take it back.

Did HE TAKE ME UP ON THE OFFER ? ? ? OH YES, through many miracles, HE OPENED THE DOORS for me to become, with no Bible College, a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in two California maximum security Prisons, 9 years at on and 6 years at the last.

Even when I was called to deliver Sermons, I gather the Verses a particular subject. AND THRUST HIM TOTALLY TO GIVE ME WHAT HE WANTED TO SAY ABOUT THOSE VERSES. Never did I write out the sermon and read it to them. And every sermon lasted 45 minutes to an hour. I found I wanted to take sermon notes, because it was not ME, it was the LORD IN ME DELIVERING THE SERMONS.

I could tell you many more minor miracles HE DID, but some other time.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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See VOC? Everyone lumped in together. Does every Baptist believe OSAS and all of TULIP? No! Most mainstream Pentecostals do not believe tongues has anything to do with salvation. But we are accused of believing it because the holiness do, or some independent church does. See the other side of the coin?
More your reactions point to a greater concern for tongues that for any other bible doctrine. Great ardor for tongues great offense for those who point out the bible does not support the behavior.
Roger this is a ridiculous comment coming from someone like you. I thought you were more level headed. Where are your facts to back up this claim? See VOC? Understand where I'm coming from?
You don't believe that there are people in your church that are pretending to be Christians? You are fully assured that everyone in your church is genuine in their profession of faith?
I believe in the rapture and eternal security of the believer. I believe you are eternally secure as long as remain in Him. I believe you can chose to walk away, you say they were never saved in the first place. Either way they end up in hell if they don't repent. BTW I don't know of any Pentecostals nor Charismatics that don't believe in the rapture.
How does one remain in Christ. Does Christ ever allow any of His to be lost? If Jesus has saved us we are saved. No iffy qualifications just grace imputed to us and our sin all of our sin imputed to Him.
Once again, VOC, are you reading along? Holiness believe in water baptism for salvation, most Pentecostals do not nor do Charismatics. Thanks Roger for making my point.
I have only pondered the question that cannot really be answered. You cannot answer the question any better than I can because we cannot see into the heart. Walking in Christ is a continuing work of sanctification not salvation.

I am not against Pentecostals or charismatics. I am against behaviors and doctrines that are in opposition to the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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More your reactions point to a greater concern for tongues that for any other bible doctrine. Great ardor for tongues great offense for those who point out the bible does not support the behavior.
It is ridiculously biased and narrow-minded to accuse Kayla of having "great ardor for tongues" in a thread about tongues. What about VCO's ardor regarding tongues? He started the thread with a nine-part study. Have you criticized him for spending so much time on it?

The reality is that what people happen to write in a thread about a particular topic says absolutely nothing about its importance in their lives relative to other topics.

As to "great offense for those who point out...", that's your opinion speaking. If you're offended, that's your problem. You don't speak for others.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,215
12,417
113
Jesus healed some people. The religious teachers said He did it by the power of satan. They were told they had just blasphemed the Holy Spirit because they had attributed the Spirit's work to the devil.

The Bible tells us to speak in tongues. But many religious "teachers" say it's not of God, therefore it must come from somewhere else, implying it is the work of satan/demons.
So there you according to you we have committed the unpardonable sin and are lost

You sir are the problem
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,215
12,417
113
Jesus healed some people. The religious teachers said He did it by the power of satan. They were told they had just blasphemed the Holy Spirit because they had attributed the Spirit's work to the devil.

The Bible tells us to speak in tongues. But many religious "teachers" say it's not of God, therefore it must come from somewhere else, implying it is the work of satan/demons.
Also. The Bible does not tell us to speak in tongues it says if the ya determines to give a person a gift they may. So your wrong on two things in one post