A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[eternally-gratefull]

"may".........its mood is subjunctive (which expresses probability or possibility).

The word “interpret” means translate.

Verified

The word is

Diermeneue - verb, present, active, SUBJUNCTIVE, third person, singular

The work “may” is not even present, it was the interpretors interpretation of the greek verb which means to unfold the meaning of what is said, to expound, to explain, To translate.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

the Holy Spirit revealed to me some people have heard the truth often enough and now they should just be left to stew in their own juices

too much back and forth is leading to sin

and I totally understand the conflict, why it happens and why anti-tongues people get so worked up and then flip it and say it's the other side

there are 2 main forces at work in this world.

one, the Holy Spirit does not conflict with the word or the purpose of His being here

the other, masquerades as an angel of light and confuses and deceives

this applies the world over and is certainly not confined to this forum or to this thread

and when I say the Holy Spirit revealed to me, I actually meant that understanding is available to everyone

it is in the Bible. I am not claiming personal revelation or conversation as is the op

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this is a discussion site, DEBATE is what is done here, if you don’t like it why are you here?

Funny, I have said this so many times..lol Except I would rather ruse the word “Discuss” Not debate.. People who debate are not tryign to learn, they are trying get other people to believe as they do. So discussion actually falls by the way side, and instead wars start. Because neither side is willong to even consider the other side to see if maybe they have something which may show how I was taught wrong..

Sadly, I see this from both sides of this issue.. Which again, considering a non salvic topic. Is sad.

What I see here is SOME of what VCO has shared (which can be verified) should make us stop for a minute and consider that there is something there, Especially in corinthians. But some are so out to prove him wrong, I doubt they even have read or considered what he has said.

At the same token, it seems e is totally against ALL possible uses of the gift of languages, He too seems to not even be willing see some other stuff that seems to support there is a use for languages even today.

So when you get two people apposed to each other (like we have seen) what you have is actual debate, And I must be honest, I have never changed my view on ANYTHING hearing people debate..and I wonder if anyone has?

Thats why this is a DISCUSSION forum and not a DEBATE forum..

Love both YOU and VCO, (I have learned alot from both of you) and I know your my siblings in Christ.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Having had the experience, it is a psychological-emotional phenomena, dissociative hyper-arousal state, there really is no debate, modern day glossolalia is not a language, linguistics has demonstrated this in the research.

If the translators had translated glossa (γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ) as "language" there would be no debate.

it was either genuine or not

in your case, I suspect it was not

debate exists when scripture is used to express personal opinions, such as yours and the op's

but no worries. all will be revealed and some things sooner than others

 

[Dino246]

My proposal of subjective possibility is correct and sensible as context shows.
There would be no more need of an interpreter, there would be no more edifying of the body of Christ in the case where the first option is raise.

Your point is not clear. Perhaps something is lost in translation.

Yap, to Paul it is a commandment rather suggestion.

I didn't use the word, "suggestion", so your point is moot.

 

[UnderGrace]

"Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning...."

You'd think that the person who started the divisive discussion should be warned.

Is this church?

 

[Dino246]

Is this church?

Ask VCO that question. He's the one using that argument as justification for putting people on Ignore.

 

[BenFTW]

Paul says the speaker edified himself yet you are agreeing that context is about edifying others. Paul would rather speak five words easy to be understood that the church be edified.

Whats your point? I am trying to see our disagreement, but every time you bring up a verse, I see no dilemma with what I have said and what you quote from scripture. What is it that you disagree with?

 

[UnderGrace]

Ask VCO that question. He's the one using that argument as justification for putting people on Ignore.

Went back to the post, I would agree Titus is not really applicable, although certainly one is justified in ignoring when one takes everything so personal.
This is the part that baffles me, why is this doctrine sooo...... personal and so subjective?

Since you seem to have a more cerebral approach, can you tell me what is the present day gift of speaking languages, define it please?

 

[BenFTW]

I want to thank you for your support on this thread. I try be accommodating with kaylagrl by agreeing to temporary discuss this subject with her. However it ends up in the typical hating me, because I do not see their BRAND of tongues as Legitimate. I am totally convinced that the Holy Spirit guided me in that STUDY. So I must boldly defend it, but sooner or later, almost every one of them hurls rocks. {See my last post to her.}

I wonder what part of: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, do they not understand. There is almost NONE among Charismatics or Pentecostals, can accept that I do believe that the Modern Day tongues is a counterfeit.

If you came in here preaching that Christ is not the Messiah, and then stated you didn't wish to debate, what would be the Christian thing to do? Address your false doctrine, offer correction, lead you into the truth because what you've shared is false. Likewise, that you or any person would suggest that tongues is demonic, sourced from the enemy, or counterfeit is contrary to the truth. When you teach false doctrine, and then say that you don't want to debate, you are going to get addressed by believers who stand for the truth.

Consider the accusation against Christ, that his power came from demons and how it is they committed blasphemy. Where do you stand calling a manifestation of the Holy Spirit counterfeit? Some even calling it demonic. You should tread carefully, not because His grace isn't sufficient for your sin (it is), but because you lead people astray from what the Lord would do to exhort, build up, and uplift His Church (through the gifts of the Spirit).

May God open your eyes, because you're blind.

 

[Dino246]

Went back to the post, I would agree Titus is not really applicable, although certainly one is justified in ignoring when one takes everything so personal.
This is the part that baffles me, why is this doctrine sooo...... personal and so subjective?

Since you seem to have a more cerebral approach, can you tell me what is the present day gift of speaking languages, define it please?

If by "speaking languages" you mean the same thing that most Bibles call "speaking in tongues", then it is the God-given ability to speak in a language you have not previously learned. It is not merely a "talent" or "natural ability" for languages, because in the context of 1 Corinthians, it is identified alongside such non-natural, non-learned abilities as prophesying and working of miracles.

 

[UnderGrace]

If by "speaking languages" you mean the same thing that most Bibles call "speaking in tongues", then it is the God-given ability to speak in a language you have not previously learned. It is not merely a "talent" or "natural ability" for languages, because in the context of 1 Corinthians, it is identified alongside such non-natural, non-learned abilities as prophesying and working of miracles.

Agree, definitely according to scripture it is a language the person did not learn.

Is this language for use with the corporate body or is it also private for self-edification as some state on here?

 

[UnderGrace]

If you came in here preaching that Christ is not the Messiah, and then stated you didn't wish to debate, what would be the Christian thing to do? Address your false doctrine, offer correction, lead you into the truth because what you've shared is false. Likewise, that you or any person would suggest that tongues is demonic, sourced from the enemy, or counterfeit is contrary to the truth. When you teach false doctrine, and then say that you don't want to debate, you are going to get addressed by believers who stand for the truth.

Consider the accusation against Christ, that his power came from demons and how it is they committed blasphemy. Where do you stand calling a manifestation of the Holy Spirit counterfeit? Some even calling it demonic. You should tread carefully, not because His grace isn't sufficient for your sin (it is), but because you lead people astray from what the Lord would do to exhort, build up, and uplift His Church (through the gifts of the Spirit).

May God open your eyes, because you're blind.

Ben, he posted his work because several of us asked him to, I do not see where that is against the rules?

 

[BenFTW]

Having had the experience, it is a psychological-emotional phenomena, dissociative hyper-arousal state, there really is no debate, modern day glossolalia is not a language, linguistics has demonstrated this in the research.

If the translators had translated glossa (γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ) as "language" there would be no debate.

I don't understand this idea that tongues is an induced "hyper-arousal state." People speak in tongues privately, alone, with no exterior forces. It isn't some emotional frenzy. Literally, I could start speaking in tongues right now, as calm as can be with nothing going on.

You say you have had the experience, but truly if what you've shared was your experience it is the counterfeit you speak of. Not the genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

 

[UnderGrace]

Where do you stand calling a manifestation of the Holy Spirit counterfeit?

There is only one Jesus and his actions are not being questioned, it is the behaviour of humans we are discussing, this makes the presuppostion that the activity is from the Holy Spirit.

 

[BenFTW]

There is only one Jesus and his actions are not being questioned, it is the behaviour of humans we are discussing, this makes the presuppostion that the activity is from the Holy Spirit.

The same Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead is inside of you. By what power do these manifestations occur? The same that worked through Jesus.

 

[garee]

it was either genuine or not

in your case, I suspect it was not

debate exists when scripture is used to express personal opinions, such as yours and the op's

but no worries. all will be revealed and some things sooner than others

Either genuine or not "what"? A sign to confirm unbelief of God in the heart of man ? Or a noise to self edify one self?

 

[UnderGrace]

I don't understand this idea that tongues is an induced "hyper-arousal state." People speak in tongues privately, alone, with no exterior forces. It isn't some emotional frenzy. Literally, I could start speaking in tongues right now, as calm as can be with nothing going on.

You say you have had the experience, but truly if what you've shared was your experience it is the counterfeit you speak of. Not the genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Yes of course my expereince would have to be counterfeit....smh......those that submitted to the research were also "language" speakers, and were firm in their belief just as you are on the authenticity, and the brain activity was measured and this is what was noted.

 

[Noose]

The same Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead is inside of you. By what power do these manifestations occur? The same that worked through Jesus.

Did Jesus speak in tongues? when?!

 

[UnderGrace]

The same Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead is inside of you. By what power do these manifestations occur? The same that worked through Jesus.

Ben, Ben, Ben...... can you tell me what type of language this is? And also tell me why yours is true and mine counterfeit?