A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Well there is factual, good, sound science then agreed :).... we need to remember that,
I believe it applies to the study of glossolalia


Yep, the TONGUES of the Apostles are the APPLES,

While the tongues of the Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements are the Oranges.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yep, the TONGUES of the Apostles are the APPLES,

While the tongues of the Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements are the Oranges.

Yes, the argument is that they are one and the same and they are not.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I know, it is far too typical of the movement.
There are extremes everywhere. I have had some peaceful comments with them it’s always the select few
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Did Jesus speak in tongues? when?!
They will typically say:


Mark 15:34 (HCSB)
34 And at three Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lemá sabachtháni?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

However, that Language is ARAMAIC, and it was a required Language Course for the educated in Jesus day.
AND JESUS WAS WELL EDUCATED when HE was a Youth.


Luke 2:40-50 (HCSB)
40 The boy grew up and became strong, filled with wisdom, and God’s grace was on Him.
41 Every year His parents traveled to Jerusalem for the Passover Festival.
42 When He was 12 years old, they went up according to the custom of the festival.
43 After those days were over, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but His parents did not know it.
44 Assuming He was in the traveling party, they went a day’s journey. Then they began looking for Him among their relatives and friends.
45 When they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem to search for Him.
46 After three days, they found Him in the temple complex sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
47 And all those who heard Him were astounded at His understanding and His answers.
48 When His parents saw Him, they were astonished, and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for You.”
49 “Why were you searching for Me?” He asked them. “Didn’t you know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”
50 But they did not understand what He said to them.


Very well Educated at the age of 12.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Actually, the assertion is that it is a language known to God. Markers of languages known to humans are great for identifying human languages. Many creatures communicate in non-human languages... do those methods of communication qualify as "languages" to the linguists? Who died and made linguists the arbiters of what constitutes "language" anyway? ;)

As for identifying counterfeits, look at the fruit. Is the speaker glorifying God in their natural language? Are they pointing others to God and truth, or to themselves, or worse, to false idols?
Hmm... what do you mean by natural language?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
There are extremes everywhere. I have had some peaceful comments with them it’s always the select few
Yes, so have I. Especially the Pentecostal Pastor that was in the Prison Ministry with me. We got along Great. We just agreed to disagree on this one subject, and Never say him get angry.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Yes, the argument is that they are one and the same and they are not.
Amen If there is a difference in what they confirm they could never be the same . Find out what the sign confirms and trace its back to the foundation. Then the rest of the doctrine fall into place.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Yes, the argument is that they are one and the same and they are not.

However theologians have confirmed their tongues are Identical as the cults, and the psuedo-christian cults. Hinduism uses it big time, and so do the Mormons. I used to work with Mormon that confirmed they spoke in tongues too.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
The language they speak normally. Canadian English, in my case.
Natural language is not "glossolalia" correct?

Are you stating that the fruit of their natural language can tell us when "glossolalia" is really "xeno-glossolalia"

Xeno-glossolalia being the gift in scripture.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Perhaps if you establish some relevance for this question, its answer will be meaningful.
Easy.
Every time tongues were spoken in the bible, it was by the Jews in the presence of gentiles or by the gentiles in the presence of Jews. In the 3.5 years Jesus' ministry, they did not speak in tongues because Jesus and the disciples ministered, starting with the Jews first.

By that time, the disciples did many miracles by the spirit of God yet they did not speak in tongues until they were given power to go to the gentiles. How come they had other spiritual gifts except tongues?

This explains a lot, what tongues were and should be. Tongues are a miracle to the ears of the listeners, what is happening today is noise to the hearer.
 
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
In respect to speaking in "unknown and or other languages or tongues" Paul is not writing to the Corinthians in regards to some "gift" that is used in a private "prayer" setting, rather he was addressing the corporate use of "tongues" in a church/body setting.

To state as a poster previously said "Literally, I could start speaking in tongues right now" is to claim tongues was for personal use and not where it was intended to function, so that he or someone else might "say Amen"

(1 Cor 14:16-17 Otherwise, if you are praising God with your spirit, how can someone without the gift say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?

For you are certainly giving thanks well, but the other person is not strengthened.)

For someone to speak in tongues alone privately is speaking to the air in much the same way if that tongue was spoken and the speaker could not also interpret.

(1 Cor 14:13 So then, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.)

(1 Cor 14:9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.)

IMHO the gifts were to establish the early church, we see Paul wanting to visit the Romans that he may impart some gift(s).

(Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you)

Paul said the spirituals would cease when the "perfect" comes.

(1 Cor 13:10 but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.)

"Perfect" is better translated as mature or maturity as in establishing the early church.

Concordant Literal Version "10 Now whenever maturity may be coming, that which is out of an installment shall be discarded"

For Paul to be stating that the gifts would cease at the end of the Christian age would be somewhat redundant.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Yes, so have I. Especially the Pentecostal Pastor that was in the Prison Ministry with me. We got along Great. We just agreed to disagree on this one subject, and Never say him get angry.

I did it again. When my typos become MORE than I type Correctly; somebody Drag me off to a Veterans Home, poke my Form DD2l4 in my pocket, and leave me on the door steps.

That should be: Never saw him get angry.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
Yes, the argument is that they are one and the same and they are not.
The issue with many of you, is that you cannot reconcile the differences between what happened at Pentecost and the use of tongues after Pentecost (such as in the Church, with a body of believers or even in private). Not being able to, you then malign what you do not comprehend, and go back to Pentecost thinking that it is the end all and be all of tongues.

If you think that tongues is only a sign to the Jew, you are misinformed, and have not read scripture thoroughly. If you think that tongues is only for the purpose of evangelism, again, you are misinformed and have not considered its purpose in prayer, worship, and ministering (within the Body of Christ, for their edification).

If you can't see past Pentecost, and see it as the only example and purpose of tongues, then continue searching the scriptures because you're mistaken.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
In respect to speaking in "unknown and or other languages or tongues" Paul is not writing to the Corinthians in regards to some "gift" that is used in a private "prayer" setting, rather he was addressing the corporate use of "tongues" in a church/body setting.

To state as a poster previously said "Literally, I could start speaking in tongues right now" is to claim tongues was for personal use and not where it was intended to function, so that he or someone else might "say Amen"

(1 Cor 14:16-17 Otherwise, if you are praising God with your spirit, how can someone without the gift say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?

For you are certainly giving thanks well, but the other person is not strengthened.)

For someone to speak in tongues alone privately is speaking to the air in much the same way if that tongue was spoken and the speaker could not also interpret.

(1 Cor 14:13 So then, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.)

(1 Cor 14:9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.)

IMHO the gifts were to establish the early church, we see Paul wanting to visit the Romans that he may impart some gift(s).

(Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you)

Paul said the spirituals would cease when the "perfect" comes.

(1 Cor 13:10 but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.)

"Perfect" is better translated as mature or maturity as in establishing the early church.

Concordant Literal Version "10 Now whenever maturity may be coming, that which is out of an installment shall be discarded"

For Paul to be stating that the gifts would cease at the end of the Christian age would be somewhat redundant.
Sir, scripture itself tells the person speaking in tongues to keep silent in the church (if there is no interpreter) but to speak to himself and to God. That is a private matter involving tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

What of any of the verses I am about to share would make you think that tongues was not for private use (whatsoever)?

1 Corinthians 14:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

What about this?

1 Corinthians 14:14-17 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Lets kind of put this together. Clearly tongues is edifying the... tongue speaker, right? These verses make it clear, that through speaking in tongues you can pray in tongues, and even sing in tongues. Activities that involve fellowship with God. Not only this, but scripture clearly says that the person speaking in tongues edifies himself, and that he "givest thanks well." All of this has to do with the benefit to the tongue speaker.

However, what is the whole chapter about? Edifying whom? The Body of Christ. This is why in a corporate setting it, the gift of tongues, is to be interpreted for the edification of all. However, do not let this distract you from the fact that tongues clearly have private benefits, that they do edify the tongue speaker (clearly revealed in scripture).

Knowing these private benefits, now read 1 Corinthians 14:28 again. Keep silent in the Church and let him speak to himself and to God. Why? "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto God" and "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself."

I hope this has brought some clarification to the discussion.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
However theologians have confirmed their tongues are Identical as the cults, and the psuedo-christian cults. Hinduism uses it big time, and so do the Mormons. I used to work with Mormon that confirmed they spoke in tongues too.
kaylagrl wants to disagree.