A "Personal Relationship" with God is not biblical

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ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
306
440
63
#21
do we really need to be sarcastic in replying ?
maybe this person is searching , who knows
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,720
358
83
#22
This thread has nothing to do with any of my previous posts. This is just something that's been on my mind lately.

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible. In fact, whether you like it or not, the bible says Christianity is a religion, a good religion. James 1:26

I think this idea has done serious damage to the modern church. It results in us turning God into a therapist and trying to mold him into our own image. A "relationship" with God is done on his terms. It doesn't matter whether or not you like that. I may not like the way God does certain things, but I'm not the creator of the universe.

But more than just the words, the idea behind them is wrong. Consider this: if a “personal relationship with Jesus” is the solution, what is the problem? Maybe the problem is that you are lonely, or your life is empty, you feel meaningless, unimportant, and insignificant, hopeless with no direction. The personal relationship with Jesus promises to fix these problems, to fill the hole in your life that only Jesus can fill, to give your life meaning and direction. These are all the promises being offered. And now, with this personal relationship with Jesus, there is two-way communication where God will talk directly to you. You will be filled and fulfilled. Your life will have meaning and direction, you will be transformed. And you will directly experience the presence and the power of God, all of this if we make a decision for Christ, if we surrender our life to Him, if we make Him the Lord of our life.

I think that this summarizes Christianity for most Americans. And some of this sounds good. You might have that angst grinding up against your own soul, I suspect we all do in one way or another. None of us know what tomorrow may bring. None of us see completely how our lives fit in to the big picture of the universe. All of us have times of loneliness. But if this is our biggest problem, then Jesus wouldn’t need to die; He could just come and hang out.

But Jesus is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep, and this means that the problem is much bigger than we might think. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the Lamb who has been slain. Jesus is the One who hands Himself over to the shame of the cross, because our biggest problem is not our isolation. It is our sin running face-first into the holiness of God. God’s wrath is our real problem, because of our sin, and Jesus and His death and resurrection is our only possible hope.

To add to that, God is only my Lord and Savior, not my friend or anything like that.

The fact is, Jesus doesn’t make for a very good companion. He doesn’t talk back to you. He doesn’t laugh at your jokes. He doesn’t playfully hit you when you pretend to do something mean. He doesn’t show you something you’ve missed in the latest movie you saw, or make an insightful comment about the news. He doesn’t dance with you or sing for you or applaud when you play him a song on the violin. He doesn’t hug you or kiss you or hold your hand.

I think we can get carried away by the idea of God being our all. Yes, He is, but as God: not as friend, lover, or companion.

Even Adam, unfallen and enjoying complete communion with God, was lonely in the garden.

The modern hymn calls Jesus a "friend" and some may appeal to a verse in John where Jesus calls his disciples "friends". But the understanding of the word is decontextualized. People of the time of the Bible did not "get to know" each other as modern persons in the West do. A "friend" meant a person who looked out for your practical interests -- not someone you had beer and watched football with.

I would say that what is required of us is a patronal relationship with Jesus. The New Testament explains our relationship with God in terms of a client-patron relationship, one in which God, patron, is remote; and Jesus, as a broker, mediates between ourselves and God. Then we do have the indwelling Holy Spirit as a broker as well; but though the Spirit supplies us with mediation and perhaps power, there is nothing to show that the Spirit is some sort of intimate conversation partner.

And finally, since people of the ancient world seldom "got to know each other" personally (as is taken for granted in modern, Western society) there is no way that New Testament writers could have had an idea like a "personal relationship with Jesus" in mind in the first place -- not as we perceive it. The word "personal" is so broad in meaning that it could include a "patronal" relationship; but that is obviously not what most people have in mind when they use the word. They usually mean something like, God is approachable in the same way one of your sports buddies is. It is not the words that are so much the issue as the particulars of expression.

The purpose of coming to Christ is not happiness, joy, all the feel good emotions we love. It is for the forgiveness and atonement for sin.
Good grief, don't you have anything else better to do, (like studying your Bible) than to make a big deal about people having a personal relationship with God? Even if the phrase, "personal relationship" is not specifically stated in the Bible the concept a relationship with God/Jesus Christ is in the Bible.

How about Revelation 3:20, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyong hears My voice and opens the dooor, I will come in to him, and will dine with him and he with Me." Or how about John 14:23 where God the Father and God the Son made their "abode" in a believer?" And how about Acts 2:42, where we have fellowship with God as well as with other believers.

Why do you see the need to undermine something so innocent as having a personal relationship with God? In short, I have to ask, how old are you? I also suggest you read 2 Timothy 2:23. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
306
440
63
#24
saying things like " when was the last time you flipped a page in the Bible " seems sarcastic to me

( no offense 7seas )

Just think maybe we could try being more loving , thats all
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#26
Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”

Matthew 12:50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

I think there is a relationship, but I think this is the basis of the fulness of that relationship. It does not begin here but this is the path if His path is walked/you stay in Him. A relationship that is devoid of these things the Messiah said is an imaginary one...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,701
9,091
113
#27
This thread has nothing to do with any of my previous posts. This is just something that's been on my mind lately.

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible. In fact, whether you like it or not, the bible says Christianity is a religion, a good religion. James 1:26

I think this idea has done serious damage to the modern church. It results in us turning God into a therapist and trying to mold him into our own image. A "relationship" with God is done on his terms. It doesn't matter whether or not you like that. I may not like the way God does certain things, but I'm not the creator of the universe.

But more than just the words, the idea behind them is wrong. Consider this: if a “personal relationship with Jesus” is the solution, what is the problem? Maybe the problem is that you are lonely, or your life is empty, you feel meaningless, unimportant, and insignificant, hopeless with no direction. The personal relationship with Jesus promises to fix these problems, to fill the hole in your life that only Jesus can fill, to give your life meaning and direction. These are all the promises being offered. And now, with this personal relationship with Jesus, there is two-way communication where God will talk directly to you. You will be filled and fulfilled. Your life will have meaning and direction, you will be transformed. And you will directly experience the presence and the power of God, all of this if we make a decision for Christ, if we surrender our life to Him, if we make Him the Lord of our life.

I think that this summarizes Christianity for most Americans. And some of this sounds good. You might have that angst grinding up against your own soul, I suspect we all do in one way or another. None of us know what tomorrow may bring. None of us see completely how our lives fit in to the big picture of the universe. All of us have times of loneliness. But if this is our biggest problem, then Jesus wouldn’t need to die; He could just come and hang out.

But Jesus is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep, and this means that the problem is much bigger than we might think. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the Lamb who has been slain. Jesus is the One who hands Himself over to the shame of the cross, because our biggest problem is not our isolation. It is our sin running face-first into the holiness of God. God’s wrath is our real problem, because of our sin, and Jesus and His death and resurrection is our only possible hope.

To add to that, God is only my Lord and Savior, not my friend or anything like that.

The fact is, Jesus doesn’t make for a very good companion. He doesn’t talk back to you. He doesn’t laugh at your jokes. He doesn’t playfully hit you when you pretend to do something mean. He doesn’t show you something you’ve missed in the latest movie you saw, or make an insightful comment about the news. He doesn’t dance with you or sing for you or applaud when you play him a song on the violin. He doesn’t hug you or kiss you or hold your hand.

I think we can get carried away by the idea of God being our all. Yes, He is, but as God: not as friend, lover, or companion.

Even Adam, unfallen and enjoying complete communion with God, was lonely in the garden.

The modern hymn calls Jesus a "friend" and some may appeal to a verse in John where Jesus calls his disciples "friends". But the understanding of the word is decontextualized. People of the time of the Bible did not "get to know" each other as modern persons in the West do. A "friend" meant a person who looked out for your practical interests -- not someone you had beer and watched football with.

I would say that what is required of us is a patronal relationship with Jesus. The New Testament explains our relationship with God in terms of a client-patron relationship, one in which God, patron, is remote; and Jesus, as a broker, mediates between ourselves and God. Then we do have the indwelling Holy Spirit as a broker as well; but though the Spirit supplies us with mediation and perhaps power, there is nothing to show that the Spirit is some sort of intimate conversation partner.

And finally, since people of the ancient world seldom "got to know each other" personally (as is taken for granted in modern, Western society) there is no way that New Testament writers could have had an idea like a "personal relationship with Jesus" in mind in the first place -- not as we perceive it. The word "personal" is so broad in meaning that it could include a "patronal" relationship; but that is obviously not what most people have in mind when they use the word. They usually mean something like, God is approachable in the same way one of your sports buddies is. It is not the words that are so much the issue as the particulars of expression.

The purpose of coming to Christ is not happiness, joy, all the feel good emotions we love. It is for the forgiveness and atonement for sin.
Interesting thoughts. If we don't have a personal relationship, then we don't have personal responsibility to share or respond to the gospel, repent, bear fruit, express gifts, etc. We could only do those things corporately. We'd end up looking like the Catholic "church".
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,362
1,039
113
#28
Balance is the key.

Christ Jesus is not our "BFF" or "dude". But He is not impersonal to His children either.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,524
2,599
113
#29
OP are you a christian yourself? If so, what church do you belong to, if any?
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,563
928
113
65
#30
I give it to you history princess, for putting it out there but I knew this was coming!

Abraham was God's friend, as was Moses, as was David, etc..... Jesus wept & went to His friends in the garden to pray with Him. You cannot be a friend and not have a personal relationship with another person. o_O
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,470
2,823
113
#31
This thread has nothing to do with any of my previous posts. This is just something that's been on my mind lately.

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible. In fact, whether you like it or not, the bible says Christianity is a religion, a good religion. James 1:26

I think this idea has done serious damage to the modern church. It results in us turning God into a therapist and trying to mold him into our own image. A "relationship" with God is done on his terms. It doesn't matter whether or not you like that. I may not like the way God does certain things, but I'm not the creator of the universe.

But more than just the words, the idea behind them is wrong. Consider this: if a “personal relationship with Jesus” is the solution, what is the problem? Maybe the problem is that you are lonely, or your life is empty, you feel meaningless, unimportant, and insignificant, hopeless with no direction. The personal relationship with Jesus promises to fix these problems, to fill the hole in your life that only Jesus can fill, to give your life meaning and direction. These are all the promises being offered. And now, with this personal relationship with Jesus, there is two-way communication where God will talk directly to you. You will be filled and fulfilled. Your life will have meaning and direction, you will be transformed. And you will directly experience the presence and the power of God, all of this if we make a decision for Christ, if we surrender our life to Him, if we make Him the Lord of our life.

I think that this summarizes Christianity for most Americans. And some of this sounds good. You might have that angst grinding up against your own soul, I suspect we all do in one way or another. None of us know what tomorrow may bring. None of us see completely how our lives fit in to the big picture of the universe. All of us have times of loneliness. But if this is our biggest problem, then Jesus wouldn’t need to die; He could just come and hang out.

But Jesus is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep, and this means that the problem is much bigger than we might think. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the Lamb who has been slain. Jesus is the One who hands Himself over to the shame of the cross, because our biggest problem is not our isolation. It is our sin running face-first into the holiness of God. God’s wrath is our real problem, because of our sin, and Jesus and His death and resurrection is our only possible hope.

To add to that, God is only my Lord and Savior, not my friend or anything like that.

The fact is, Jesus doesn’t make for a very good companion. He doesn’t talk back to you. He doesn’t laugh at your jokes. He doesn’t playfully hit you when you pretend to do something mean. He doesn’t show you something you’ve missed in the latest movie you saw, or make an insightful comment about the news. He doesn’t dance with you or sing for you or applaud when you play him a song on the violin. He doesn’t hug you or kiss you or hold your hand.

I think we can get carried away by the idea of God being our all. Yes, He is, but as God: not as friend, lover, or companion.

Even Adam, unfallen and enjoying complete communion with God, was lonely in the garden.

The modern hymn calls Jesus a "friend" and some may appeal to a verse in John where Jesus calls his disciples "friends". But the understanding of the word is decontextualized. People of the time of the Bible did not "get to know" each other as modern persons in the West do. A "friend" meant a person who looked out for your practical interests -- not someone you had beer and watched football with.

I would say that what is required of us is a patronal relationship with Jesus. The New Testament explains our relationship with God in terms of a client-patron relationship, one in which God, patron, is remote; and Jesus, as a broker, mediates between ourselves and God. Then we do have the indwelling Holy Spirit as a broker as well; but though the Spirit supplies us with mediation and perhaps power, there is nothing to show that the Spirit is some sort of intimate conversation partner.

And finally, since people of the ancient world seldom "got to know each other" personally (as is taken for granted in modern, Western society) there is no way that New Testament writers could have had an idea like a "personal relationship with Jesus" in mind in the first place -- not as we perceive it. The word "personal" is so broad in meaning that it could include a "patronal" relationship; but that is obviously not what most people have in mind when they use the word. They usually mean something like, God is approachable in the same way one of your sports buddies is. It is not the words that are so much the issue as the particulars of expression.

The purpose of coming to Christ is not happiness, joy, all the feel good emotions we love. It is for the forgiveness and atonement for sin.
Hello HistoryPrincess, :love:

I absolutely love your post! You know why? Because you're being very real, open and honest with the cry of your heart! God hears you, and so do I!

The personal relationship we have with God is in the spirit. It is not in the natural realm. When Jesus returns to Earth in His physical body, then we will have a physical face-to-face relationship with Him, but for now - it is a spiritual personal relationship.

Just like we have 5 senses (smell, taste, touch, sight, and hear) in the natural realm, we also have the same 5 senses in the spiritual realm - this is where we communicate and commune with God.

Being saved is only the beginning - Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and Fire. Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is like being a cell phone that is "activated." We can now send and receive messages; however, keep in mind - like a cell phone, we've got to get plugged in and recharge or else we lose power and connection.

I shall say a prayer for you.........

Dear Heavenly Father, :love:

Thank You for HistoryPrincess. Fill her with Your Holy Spirit. There is a desire and hunger in her to know You personally. Lord Jesus, baptize her with the Holy Spirit and quicken her spiritual senses to connect with you. Forgive any and all sins with the Blood of Jesus. In the Name of Jesus, amen. :)(y)
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
5,634
1,130
113
#32
"because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be firstborn among many brothers." - Rom8:29 [blb]

"So you are no longer a slave but a son; and if a son, also an heir through God." Gal4:7 [blb]


[ ^ speaking of "the Church which is His body" (Eph1:20-23, "when")]
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#33
The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible.
I get what you are saying, just because a person watches a movie doesn’t mean they know the actor who starred in the movie any more than reading a book means they have a personal relationship with the author of the book. And likewise, merely because it is written in the Gossip pages that a person said something doesn’t mean what is written is what was said, or if they even said anything at all.

If the LORD had to send someone to tell somebody something, then I would agree that neither could really claim to have personal relationship with him seeing that person sent would be a servant and those who were told would likewise be servants as a servant doesn’t know what to do but has to be told.

However, if LORD speaks to you something that you don’t have to go around telling everyone what was said then I would consider that a personal relationship. Call it whatever you want or label it however you will, that won’t change the fact that I am thankful for the little talks.

How about Revelation 3:20, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyong hears My voice and opens the dooor, I will come in to him, and will dine with him and he with Me." Or how about John 14:23 where God the Father and God the Son made their "abode" in a believer?" And how about Acts 2:42, where we have fellowship with God as well as with other believers.
Excellent point, since the Spirit without the Word can't speak it is little wonder the Holy Ghost doesn't speak to those who make and loveth lies since the LORD is a God of truth.
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
67
Illinois
#34
"In The Garden"

I come to the garden alone
While the dew is still on the roses
And the voice I hear falling on my ear
The Son of God discloses.

Refrain
And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

He speaks, and the sound of His voice,
Is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
And the melody that He gave to me
Within my heart is ringing.

Refrain

I'd stay in the garden with Him
Though the night around me be falling,
But He bids me go; through the voice of woe
His voice to me is calling.

Refrain​


Words & Music by: Charles Austin Miles (1912)
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,175
516
113
#36
Love is not necessarily a warm fuzzy feeling, it's what we do. We're all different, all on a journey, none of us (reading and writing here) are at our final destination. If we continue in the Word day by day we are being transformed more and more to be like Him.
1 Corinthians 13:4-8
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
#37
Hello HistoryPrincess, :love:

I absolutely love your post! You know why? Because you're being very real, open and honest with the cry of your heart! God hears you, and so do I!

The personal relationship we have with God is in the spirit. It is not in the natural realm. When Jesus returns to Earth in His physical body, then we will have a physical face-to-face relationship with Him, but for now - it is a spiritual personal relationship.

Just like we have 5 senses (smell, taste, touch, sight, and hear) in the natural realm, we also have the same 5 senses in the spiritual realm - this is where we communicate and commune with God.

Being saved is only the beginning - Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and Fire. Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is like being a cell phone that is "activated." We can now send and receive messages; however, keep in mind - like a cell phone, we've got to get plugged in and recharge or else we lose power and connection.

I shall say a prayer for you.........

Dear Heavenly Father, :love:

Thank You for HistoryPrincess. Fill her with Your Holy Spirit. There is a desire and hunger in her to know You personally. Lord Jesus, baptize her with the Holy Spirit and quicken her spiritual senses to connect with you. Forgive any and all sins with the Blood of Jesus. In the Name of Jesus, amen. :)(y)
Christ or the anointing Holy Spirt of God has come in the flesh as a one time outward demonstration of God pouring out His unseen Spirit on the flesh .As the Son of man Jesus informs us the flesh profits for nothing.

The Spirit of Christ is here indwelling the believer. (heart to heart) There will not be another demonstration as what some call literal face to face as if we did walk by sight . God is not a man as us, never was never could be .God has no beginning of days or end of Spirit life. He remains without mother or father (a nature) but is supernatural (no beginning).

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corinthian5:16

The face of God is in respect to the glory of God it will be part of the new heavens and earth. The Sun and the moon will be under the feet of His bride the church . Its the end of time the beginning of eternity. the former things will not be rembered or ever come to mind

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Revelation 21:22=24
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,470
2,823
113
#38
Christ or the anointing Holy Spirt of God has come in the flesh as a one time outward demonstration of God pouring out His unseen Spirit on the flesh .As the Son of man Jesus informs us the flesh profits for nothing.

The Spirit of Christ is here indwelling the believer. (heart to heart) There will not be another demonstration as what some call literal face to face as if we did walk by sight . God is not a man as us, never was never could be .God has no beginning of days or end of Spirit life. He remains without mother or father (a nature) but is supernatural (no beginning).

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corinthian5:16

The face of God is in respect to the glory of God it will be part of the new heavens and earth. The Sun and the moon will be under the feet of His bride the church . Its the end of time the beginning of eternity. the former things will not be rembered or ever come to mind

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Revelation 21:22=24
Hello garee,

I absolutely love and enjoy my spiritual encounters with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Truly, it is a spiritual relationship now for me, but one day I will have a resurrected eternal physical body just like Jesus and see Him face to face because when He appears, I shall be like Him. :love:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#39
do we really need to be sarcastic in replying ?
maybe this person is searching , who knows
who was sarcastic?

I don't see any questions in the op and she is not a new member

the op was written like a manifesto of what we all should believe

no searching there
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#40
saying things like " when was the last time you flipped a page in the Bible " seems sarcastic to me

( no offense 7seas )

Just think maybe we could try being more loving , thats all
hey ... I'm not offended...seriously...I'm very loving

but I love the truth and the word of God more than people's sensitivities

God is not political

either we believe what He says or we do not

and by the way, you will know when and if I am really sarcastic..

I cannot read some of the things people post without a little smack upside the noggin...it's a wake up call

is it love to accept a lie or coddle one? nheh...not to me it isn't

and no I am not loved by all and if I were, I would be very wishy washy

anything else? ;):unsure::geek:

and by the way. Chester once really gave me what for and then apologized and said he was having a bad day

so whatever LOL!