A study on the Trinity

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

Tombo

Guest
#1
Genesis 1:26 "God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness."
Genesis 3:22 "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil."
Genesis 11:7 "Come, let Us go down, and there confuse their language"
Isaiah 6:8 "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?"
Some have suggested they are plurals of Majesty, a form of speach a king would use in saying, for example, "We are pleased to grant your request." However , in Old Testament Hebrew there are no other examples of a monarch using plural verbs or plural pronouns of himself in such a "plural of majesty", so this suggestion has no evidence to support it. Wayne Grudem, Systematic Theology.

Psalm 45:6-7 "Your throne, O God is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness; you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has annointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."
Here the psalm passes beyond describing anything that could be true of an earthly king and calls the king "God" (v. 6) whose throne will last "forever and ever." . But then, still speaking to the person called "God", the author says that "God, your God, has set you above your companions", (v. 7) So two separate persons are called "God" (Heb. Elohim). In the New Testament , the author of Hebrews quotes this passage and applies it to Christ: "Your throne, O God , is forever and ever" (Heb. 1:8) W.G.

Psalm 110:1 " The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."
Jesus rightly understands that David is referring to two seperate persons as "Lord" (Matt.22:41-46), but who is David's "Lord" if not God Himself? And who would be saying to God, "Sit at my right hand" except someone else who is also fully God? It seems clear that David was aware of a purality of persons in one God. Jesus, of course, understood this, but when He asked the Pharisees for an explanation of this passage, "no one was able to answer Him a word,...."(Matt. 22:46). Unless they are willing to admit a plurality of persons in one God, Jewish interpreters of Scripture to this day will have no more satisfactory explanation of Psalm 110:1 (or of Gen, 1:26, or of the other passages just discussed) than they did in Jesus day. W.G.

Isaiah 63:10 says that God's people "rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit" apparently suggesting both that the Holy Spirit is distinct from God God Himself (it is "His Holy Spirit"), and that this Holy Spirit can be "grieved, thus suggesting emotional capabilities characteristic of a distinct person. W.G.

Malachi 3:1-2 "And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts. But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears?
Here again the one speaking ("the LORD of hosts") distinguishes himself from "the Lord whom you seek," suggesting two seperate persons, both of whom can be called "Lord."
In Hosea 1:7 "But I will have mercy on the house of Judah, and I will save them by the LORD their God," once again suggesting that more than one person can be called "Lord" (Heb. Yahweh) and "God" (Elohim). W.G.

Isaiah 48:16 "Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, and from the time it came to be I have been there." And now the Lord GOD has sent me and His Spirit."
Here the Spirit of the Lord, like the servant of the Lord (Is.49:1-6) , has been "sent" by the Lord GOD on a particular mission. The parallel between the two objects of sending ("me" and "his Spirit") would be consistent with seeing them both as distinct persons. In fact, from a full New Testament perspective (which recognizes Jesus the Messiah to be the true servant of the Lord predicted in Isaiah's prophecies), Isaiah 48:16 has trinitarian implications: "And now the Lord God has sent me and His Spirit," if spoken by Jesus the Son of God, refers to all three persons of the Trinity. W.G.

That is just a sample from the Old Testament expounded by Wayne Grudem in his book "Systematic Theology". I could go into many more verses showing the divinity of Jesus, but this small study is on the Trnity, not the deity of Christ..

Trinity in the New Testament:

Matt.3:16-17 "And when Jesus was baptized, immediately He went up from the water, and behold,the heavens were opened to Him and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on Him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
Here at one moment we have three members of the Trinity performing three distinct activities. God the Father is speaking from heaven; God the Son is being baptized and is then spoken to from heaven by God the Father; and God the Holy Spirit is descending from heaven to rest upon and empower Jesus for His ministry. W.G.

Matt 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
The very names "Father" and "Son", drawn as they are from the family, the most familiar of human institutions, indicate very strongly the distinct personhood of both the Father and the Son. When "the Holy Spirit" is put in the same expression and on the same level as the other two persons, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Holy Spirit is also viewed as a person and of equal standing with the Father and the Son. W.G.

1 Corinthians 12: 4-6 "Now there are a variety of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; anf there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone."
When we realize that the New Testament authors generally usae the name "God" (Gk. theos) to refer to God the Father and the name "Lord" (Gk. kyrios) to refer to God the Son, then it is clear that there is another trinitarian expression in 1 Corinthians 12:4-6. W.G.

2 Corinthians 13:14 " The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God anf the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."
Similarly, the last verse of 2 Corinthians is trinitarian in it's expression. W.G.

Ephesians 4:4-6 "There is one body and one Spirit- just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call- one Lord, one faith,one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
We see the three prsons mentiond separately here. W.G.

1 Peter 1:2 "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with His blood"
All three persons of the Trinity are mentioned together in the opening sentence of 1 Peter. W.G.

Jude 20-21 "But you beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life."

The text in blue are quotations from Wayne Grudem from his book "Systematic Theology". I used his words because he explains it more clearly than I ever could.
Even though I don't agree with everything in Mr. Grudem's book, he has much solid teaching on many biblical subjects and is ver much worth reading. I have only covered a small portion of his treatise on the Trinity and encourage others here to read His full work on this subject.
God bless.

Tom
 
Last edited:
I

Israel

Guest
#2
In Genesis where the bible says "us", why assuming that this means that God is talking to the Word or Spirit? Now if we are made in God's image, we should understand by this pattern that it takes both a male and a FEMALE to make a son. Of a truth, wisdom is the feminine side of God.
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#3
I believe this was the very first verse I memorized as a child:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#4
I believe this was the very first verse I memorized as a child:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Boy, that really crushed my argument!!!!:rolleyes:

Tom
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#6
I enjoyed the study Tombo posted.

I have been trying to find the place that Christ and God has in our lives. Some tell me I must follow Christ, and don’t get too wound up in the OT. The OT leads to legalism, we are under grace through Christ. If God the Father and God the Son are one, then it would follow that grace would have always been with us from the beginning of time.

I found this is so. Christ said Moses knew me. John says so at the beginning of his gospel. Job 19:25 “I know my redeemer lives”. John 8:56 Jesus says “Abraham rejoiced to see my day”.

I don’t think we can separate the three in our minds and worship our God in truth.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#7
I enjoyed the study Tombo posted.

I have been trying to find the place that Christ and God has in our lives. Some tell me I must follow Christ, and don’t get too wound up in the OT. The OT leads to legalism, we are under grace through Christ. If God the Father and God the Son are one, then it would follow that grace would have always been with us from the beginning of time.

I found this is so. Christ said Moses knew me. John says so at the beginning of his gospel. Job 19:25 “I know my redeemer lives”. John 8:56 Jesus says “Abraham rejoiced to see my day”.

I don’t think we can separate the three in our minds and worship our God in truth.
You are correct, we must not try to seperate the Persons of the Trinity in any way. We do recognize that there is a distinction since the Bible declares that there is a Father, a Son and Holy Spirit. But when we pray, we don't have to think that we must pray to one or more at a time. Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father who is in heaven", and the rest of the Bible tells us to be led by the Spirit, and to ask for everything in the Name of Jesus. But we don't need to mix these up. I find it helpful to just pray to God, thanking Him in the Name of Jesus as the bible tells us to.

You know, I just discussed with someone something that Mr. Grudem wrote about the Trinity that I found very interesting. He said that since we were made in God's image "let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness", that is one reason God made man a social creature within a family unit, and with the capacity to have friends. God said "it is not good for the man to be alone." If God was at one time a completely solitary God in His nature, how would He have recognized the need for relationships and fellowship, and that the man should not be alone??? Is it not strong evidence that it is because of His own fellowship from all eternity within the Godhead? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have always existed in perfect harmony and fellowship from all eternity, that is why He made us to have fellowship with one another here on earth. It is a very strong argument, to me anyway.
Something to think about.
God bless!!!!

Tom
 
I

Israel

Guest
#8
Does not the Son have BROTHERS?
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#9
Does not the Son have BROTHERS?
Believers are all children of God through Christ. We receive the adoption as sons through Him, because of His righteouness. But we are not sons in the sense of being Gods. We are still creatures and will forever remain so. But God was pleased to give us eternal life through His Son, and we will forever be with Him.
God bless.

Tom
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#10
<snip> If God was at one time a completely solitary God in His nature, how would He have recognized the need for relationships and fellowship, and that the man should not be alone??? Is it not strong evidence that it is because of His own fellowship from all eternity within the Godhead? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have always existed in perfect harmony and fellowship from all eternity, that is why He made us to have fellowship with one another here on earth. It is a very strong argument, to me anyway.
Something to think about.
God bless!!!!

Tom
God from the very beginning wanted a relationship and fellowship with man - that was his original intent for creating man to begin with - and he did have the same with Adam until sin entered - which broke that perfect relationship with God.

God bless.
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#11
Does not the Son have BROTHERS?
Yes - we are brothers (sister) of Christ.

For he who sanctifies ad those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers. . Heb. 2:11
 
I

Israel

Guest
#12
Believers are all children of God through Christ. We receive the adoption as sons through Him, because of His righteouness. But we are not sons in the sense of being Gods. We are still creatures and will forever remain so. But God was pleased to give us eternal life through His Son, and we will forever be with Him.
God bless.

Tom
Jesus came out from between two legs just like the rest of us. I'm trying to stay away from this "trinity" debate as this type of thinking overrides all common sense. Two men, let alone three CANNOT produce a child by nature.


Genesis 2:7

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This breath of life, was it created? How so? It came from He who has eternal or everlasting life within Him.
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#13
Yes, and if we are brothers and sisters with Christ, born of the same Spirit, and if He did not think it robbery to be equal
with God, His Father and ours, then why do Christians? After all He is the Pattern Son, we are born of the very same Nature
as He was and is, we are seated in the same place as He, we rule and reign with Him together. ......Etc. Etc....


When you view Him as A separate God then His Nature and Purpose becomes out of reach for most.
But When you see Him as He is, then you know who you are in Him.

Now I know that is going to offend many, but He came in His Father's NAME, (Character, Purpose, Nature, and Authority)
should we not be the same as He is here in this earth?
 
I

Israel

Guest
#14
Yes - we are brothers (sister) of Christ.

For he who sanctifies ad those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers. . Heb. 2:11
Exactly. So in knowing that He (Jesus)who sanctifies and those who are sanctified (us) ARE FROM THE SAME SOURCE, then you are from everlasting as well!
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#15
Believers are all children of God through Christ. We receive the adoption as sons through Him, because of His righteouness. But we are not sons in the sense of being Gods. We are still creatures and will forever remain so. But God was pleased to give us eternal life through His Son, and we will forever be with Him.
God bless.

Tom
Those who accept Christ become the sons of God. Jesus drew up the "deed" for us on the cross when he said, "It is finished." By confessing with the mouth Jesus Christ as Lord, (Romans 10:9) you are spiritually, legally binding yourself to God and have become a born-again child of His. Where once we were aliens, we are now sons with an inheritance; Sons of God and joint heirs with Christ.

God bless.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#16
I don't have the time to once again go over all of the errors presented in the last few posts, but I must correct Israel when he says we are from everlatsting, that is a lie. We are created beings and were only given eternal life IN CHRIST. Jesus took on a human nature in order to pay for the sins of humans, not to make us Gods. We are sons of God IN HIM. That does not mean we are on the same level WITH HIM. It only means He is our head as our Savior and made us sons of God through His obedience. God cannot create a God, that is impossible. As for 2knowhim's response, I can't find one thing Biblical that she teaches. She may think she is helping people, but she is only leading people further away from God. I know Israel holds to her teachings also, namely, that all will be saved, and other unbiblical teachings. I have gone over that many, many times, so it need not be covered again.
God bless.

Tom
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#17
I don't have the time to once again go over all of the errors presented in the last few posts, but I must correct Israel when he says we are from everlatsting, that is a lie. We are created beings and were only given eternal life IN CHRIST. Jesus took on a human nature in order to pay for the sins of humans, not to make us Gods. We are sons of God IN HIM. That does not mean we are on the same level WITH HIM. It only means He is our head as our Savior and made us sons of God through His obedience. God cannot create a God, that is impossible. As for 2knowhim's response, I can't find one thing Biblical that she teaches. She may think she is helping people, but she is only leading people further away from God. I know Israel holds to her teachings also, namely, that all will be saved, and other unbiblical teachings. I have gone over that many, many times, so it need not be covered again.
God bless.

Tom

Oh really? Not biblical?


Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


This should be the mind in All believers.

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#18
I don't have the time to once again go over all of the errors presented in the last few posts, but I must correct Israel when he says we are from everlatsting, that is a lie. We are created beings and were only given eternal life IN CHRIST. Jesus took on a human nature in order to pay for the sins of humans, not to make us Gods. We are sons of God IN HIM. That does not mean we are on the same level WITH HIM. It only means He is our head as our Savior and made us sons of God through His obedience. God cannot create a God, that is impossible. As for 2knowhim's response, I can't find one thing Biblical that she teaches. She may think she is helping people, but she is only leading people further away from God. I know Israel holds to her teachings also, namely, that all will be saved, and other unbiblical teachings. I have gone over that many, many times, so it need not be covered again.
God bless.

Tom
Again what was created, The house or body, or the life within? I've never seen a man more wroth than you when the thought of all being saved comes into your mind. Pharaoh harden not your heart. Now if we are co-heirs with Christ, then my authority is as binding as His in Him.

I ask you. Is it lawful to forgive those who would be your enemy? Now if Jesus taught to love your enemies, would it not be hypocritical for God to only love and save those who love Him? I say then that god is no better than sinners and publicans as they do the same!


Thank God that the mentality you portray goes into the grave. It is contrary to the counsel of God.

Genesis 1:31

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Again the bible says that ALL THINGS WORK FOR THE GOOD. Will you say that what God has declared good, will come back to Him void?
 
G

GodsGoldenStar

Guest
#19
im glade to have found this, i use to be a person who is a strong believer in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. but during my journey when i would seek answers from God i had problems with this belief "The Trinity" i had touble understanding what the Trinity really ment to the point where i actually denied my parents teaching and explaination on it. then one day i asked Godto show me whjat my parents were saying about you. He and i one night sat and read our bibles toghther and he gave me a verse to read and there it was! so now i truely thank Him for that i no longer doubt the belief in the Trinity.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#20
im glade to have found this, i use to be a person who is a strong believer in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. but during my journey when i would seek answers from God i had problems with this belief "The Trinity" i had touble understanding what the Trinity really ment to the point where i actually denied my parents teaching and explaination on it. then one day i asked Godto show me whjat my parents were saying about you. He and i one night sat and read our bibles toghther and he gave me a verse to read and there it was! so now i truely thank Him for that i no longer doubt the belief in the Trinity.
Good for you, GodsGoldenStar. You bring much honor to God by worshipping Him in His fullness.
God bless you.

Tom