Accurately handling what rightly dividing means.

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#42
Matthew 5:42 Give to him that a sketch of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee, turn not away.

Do you practice this? And please don’t spiritualize this and say this means something different than what the plain text says.
 

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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#43
The Jews were under the law. Are we? The Jews had to make a sacrifice of blood to receive forgiveness of sins, do we?
Because it pointed to Christ's sacrifice which had to happen? That has nothing to do with who He was dealing with but when He was.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#44
Because it pointed to Christ's sacrifice which had to happen? That has nothing to do with who He was dealing with but when He was.
You naturally rightly divide that Scripture because you understand that’s not our directions to literally obey, but for us to study and see God’s dealing with Israel under the law and rejoice with what we’ve got under the NT through Christ.
 

CharliRenee

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#45
Wow, I have been reading the Word aloud ever since I heard it is preached to the universe, or I heard it soemwhere. I know when I spent those summers and some parts of the faal in the Rockies I wanted the trees and animals andevery one to hear it.

Now I read very quietly, because the universe hears everything be it loud or almost silent. Now I have the Word read to me out loud, nice huh?

Remember the birds the fishes, the animals the vegetation the stars the planets, everything hears yu when you proounce God's words……… Good idea...……..of ocurse I would sayi that ! $Right?
You make excellent sense to me Brother. I think it shows faith, talking outloud for all to hear. Hearers of the word, doers of the word.
 

CharliRenee

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#46
Jesus did say I came not to bring peace but division...

In that context its separating out the good from the wicked.
But in Timothys case it was about scripture, and back then he would have been teaching from the OT as the new testament letters were still circulating round the churches and the gospel being spoken by the apostles who had eye witnessed Jesus resurrection.

Jesus did open scripture to others to point out that all of the prophecies were referring to Him. They just could not see it before. So what Timothy was called to do by Paul is to show others they could find Jesus in the scriptures God had already given them.
while I agree that He came to bring division, I believe that is between the believer and unbeliever. I believe He came to bring peace and unity to the believers.

For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
Ephesians 2:14 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/eph.2.14.NASB
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#47
orthotomeō
or-thot-om-eh'-o
From a compound of G3717 and the base of G5114; to make a straight cut, that is, (figuratively) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message): - rightly divide.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

After the scripture rightly dividing we see then it points out the fault of the 2 men that said the resurrection was past already, and overthrew the faith of some, for if they convinced people that the resurrection was past then they would stop living for God for they did not make it to be with Him.

And there is people that claim Christ is coming on a certain day, and when it did not happen some may have given up on Christianity, or thought Christianity was not true.

They did not understand the scriptures, and may have mixed scriptures together that gave them a false interpretation of the Bible, instead of keeping the subjects separate in their meaning.

That is what is going on today with people that say there is a resurrection of the saints before the 7 years period begins, which is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, which at that time they will all be back on their land by way of the Middle East peace treaty.

They know of the resurrection, but they mix other scriptures of the Bible in with it that gives them a false interpretation of when the resurrection happens.

God loves the saints, which is biblical that He does love the saints, and would not allow the saints to go through the tribulation, but that is not a valid point, for if that were true then God would of not allowed the saints to be persecuted throughout the entire history of the Church, which they were persecuted, and the Bible says they are killed all the day long.

They mix that in with the resurrection.

And they mix other things in with it to give them an interpretation that is false, and many false interpretations also where they mix scriptures, instead of understanding and keeping them separate, by either ignoring those scriptures that go against it, or interpreting it to mean what they believe.

The Bible is clear that the resurrection is not going to happen until at the end of the 7 years period.

There is only 2 resurrections, one of the saints, and one of the world at the end of the millennial reign.

Paul said the saints will be on earth when the world says Peace and safety, which starts the 7 years period, and Jesus will deliver the saints in the truth from the temptation that shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell on earth.

Which there can only be one temptation that can come upon all people at the same time, when the world comes together and tries to establish peace on earth, and they end up rebelling against God.

But the saints will know it is not of God, and will not follow them, but the world has a choice to either get with God, or follow the world, and the hypocrites will be tempted by it, but they still have a choice in the matter.

Repentance, and salvation are still available to the world during the first three and one half years, so the saints will remain on earth to represent the truth.

Paul said the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first, which is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel, which they are going by the new age movement that is based on evolution, and people can still evolve, and stop anything preached contrary to it, which is a hate crime punishable in the international criminal court system, and the time that the world will only want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement.

And the man of sin claims to be God to the world which is in the middle of the 7 years period.

But then the man of sin, New Age Christ, will make war against the saints, and prevail against them, and they shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he shall accomplish to scatter the power of the holy people all things are finished, which then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father.

So the Bible is clear about the time area that the saints will be gathered unto Christ that remain on earth, but because they mix other scriptures with it, they have a false interpretation of the subject matter.

Like the 2 men that said the resurrection is past already, and overthrew the faith of many, the people that preach the resurrection will happen before the 7 years period will also overthrow the faith of many, for when it does not happen many will follow the world.

And there are many subjects where people have a false interpretation of the Bible because they mix scriptures together that do not belong together, and the outcome produces a wrongful interpretation.

I pointed out the resurrection because that subject came after the scripture rightly dividing the word of truth, that they erred concerning it because they held a belief of the Bible that interfered with the understanding the resurrection correctly.

And it is going on today as well.

So it seems as if rightly dividing the word of God might be do not mix together scriptures that could give someone a false interpretation, but take each scripture and take it for what it is, and go by the scriptures that compliment it, and go along with it, instead of having a belief of a scripture, and incorporating it in to another scripture that is not compatible with it in subject matter.

A lot of people hold an interpretation of a scripture, and then ignore the scriptures that go against it, or interpret them wrongly, and sometimes this comes from a belief they like that is not part of the Bible, like people that like to enjoy sins, and worldliness, for they will interpret the scriptures that way instead of seeing the seriousness of being like Christ, for that is a big problem there.

But the Bible says there would be a lot of hypocrites at the end time, and they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and one things leads to another, until they get so hypocritical, or disgusted with fundamental Christianity that they start embracing the new age movement.

Why do you think they took prayer out of school, and taught evolution.

Like Paul Revere, the occultists are coming, the occultists are coming.

People have been fighting over Paul and James, works, not works, but they say the same thing.

For we are saved by faith when we first confess Christ for we are in the flesh, and have not received the Spirit yet, so none of our works according to the flesh can save us.

But Paul said after they are saved that if they do not have charity, love in action, works, then they have erred from the faith, which James said if they do not have charity their faith is dead.

Which Paul and James say the same thing.

Which I point that out because people are arguing over it, and they are saying the same thing, which goes to show you that some people will not give heed to what the Bible is saying, for how can you argue over 2 New Testament writers, but they interpret James to show that he is not talking about works like some people say he is to justify their position with Paul, but Paul and James are saying the same thing.

The Bible is the most misinterpreted book in the history of mankind, for many people want to hear it their way, and have a belief that is not part of the Bible and interpret scriptures that way.
 

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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#48
You naturally rightly divide that Scripture because you understand that’s not our directions to literally obey, but for us to study and see God’s dealing with Israel under the law and rejoice with what we’ve got under the NT through Christ.
Do you think He to the heart of stone, and made it a heart of flesh? Did He not filfill the law, in all that He did? He showed us how to be and then died to give Himself and His atonement to us. We don't have to, we want to because the law is now in our hearts. Not thou shalt or thou shalt not but this is how you please Him, by believing and agreeing with Him and what He has to say, lining all our thoughts, actions, words and even emotions with the will of His. I realize that we will never be able to fulfill the law, that if we were, His atonement would not have been necessary, that it is about faith. I just think ultimately that has always been His message to all who are willing to truly believe.
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,948
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#49
while I agree that He came to bring division, I believe that is between the believer and unbeliever. I believe He came to bring peace and unity to the believers.

For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
Ephesians 2:14 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/eph.2.14.NASB
Satan has many tools, he has infiltrated the church with many false truths, and gospels that come in the name of christ, i think we have to realise not everyone who calls themself our brother or sister or our true brother and sister.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,197
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#50
orthotomeō
or-thot-om-eh'-o
From a compound of G3717 and the base of G5114; to make a straight cut, that is, (figuratively) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message): - rightly divide.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

After the scripture rightly dividing we see then it points out the fault of the 2 men that said the resurrection was past already, and overthrew the faith of some, for if they convinced people that the resurrection was past then they would stop living for God for they did not make it to be with Him.

And there is people that claim Christ is coming on a certain day, and when it did not happen some may have given up on Christianity, or thought Christianity was not true.

They did not understand the scriptures, and may have mixed scriptures together that gave them a false interpretation of the Bible, instead of keeping the subjects separate in their meaning.

That is what is going on today with people that say there is a resurrection of the saints before the 7 years period begins, which is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, which at that time they will all be back on their land by way of the Middle East peace treaty.

They know of the resurrection, but they mix other scriptures of the Bible in with it that gives them a false interpretation of when the resurrection happens.

God loves the saints, which is biblical that He does love the saints, and would not allow the saints to go through the tribulation, but that is not a valid point, for if that were true then God would of not allowed the saints to be persecuted throughout the entire history of the Church, which they were persecuted, and the Bible says they are killed all the day long.

They mix that in with the resurrection.

And they mix other things in with it to give them an interpretation that is false, and many false interpretations also where they mix scriptures, instead of understanding and keeping them separate, by either ignoring those scriptures that go against it, or interpreting it to mean what they believe.

The Bible is clear that the resurrection is not going to happen until at the end of the 7 years period.

There is only 2 resurrections, one of the saints, and one of the world at the end of the millennial reign.

Paul said the saints will be on earth when the world says Peace and safety, which starts the 7 years period, and Jesus will deliver the saints in the truth from the temptation that shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell on earth.

Which there can only be one temptation that can come upon all people at the same time, when the world comes together and tries to establish peace on earth, and they end up rebelling against God.

But the saints will know it is not of God, and will not follow them, but the world has a choice to either get with God, or follow the world, and the hypocrites will be tempted by it, but they still have a choice in the matter.

Repentance, and salvation are still available to the world during the first three and one half years, so the saints will remain on earth to represent the truth.

Paul said the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first, which is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel, which they are going by the new age movement that is based on evolution, and people can still evolve, and stop anything preached contrary to it, which is a hate crime punishable in the international criminal court system, and the time that the world will only want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement.

And the man of sin claims to be God to the world which is in the middle of the 7 years period.

But then the man of sin, New Age Christ, will make war against the saints, and prevail against them, and they shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he shall accomplish to scatter the power of the holy people all things are finished, which then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father.

So the Bible is clear about the time area that the saints will be gathered unto Christ that remain on earth, but because they mix other scriptures with it, they have a false interpretation of the subject matter.

Like the 2 men that said the resurrection is past already, and overthrew the faith of many, the people that preach the resurrection will happen before the 7 years period will also overthrow the faith of many, for when it does not happen many will follow the world.

And there are many subjects where people have a false interpretation of the Bible because they mix scriptures together that do not belong together, and the outcome produces a wrongful interpretation.

I pointed out the resurrection because that subject came after the scripture rightly dividing the word of truth, that they erred concerning it because they held a belief of the Bible that interfered with the understanding the resurrection correctly.

And it is going on today as well.

So it seems as if rightly dividing the word of God might be do not mix together scriptures that could give someone a false interpretation, but take each scripture and take it for what it is, and go by the scriptures that compliment it, and go along with it, instead of having a belief of a scripture, and incorporating it in to another scripture that is not compatible with it in subject matter.

A lot of people hold an interpretation of a scripture, and then ignore the scriptures that go against it, or interpret them wrongly, and sometimes this comes from a belief they like that is not part of the Bible, like people that like to enjoy sins, and worldliness, for they will interpret the scriptures that way instead of seeing the seriousness of being like Christ, for that is a big problem there.

But the Bible says there would be a lot of hypocrites at the end time, and they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and one things leads to another, until they get so hypocritical, or disgusted with fundamental Christianity that they start embracing the new age movement.

Why do you think they took prayer out of school, and taught evolution.

Like Paul Revere, the occultists are coming, the occultists are coming.

People have been fighting over Paul and James, works, not works, but they say the same thing.

For we are saved by faith when we first confess Christ for we are in the flesh, and have not received the Spirit yet, so none of our works according to the flesh can save us.

But Paul said after they are saved that if they do not have charity, love in action, works, then they have erred from the faith, which James said if they do not have charity their faith is dead.

Which Paul and James say the same thing.

Which I point that out because people are arguing over it, and they are saying the same thing, which goes to show you that some people will not give heed to what the Bible is saying, for how can you argue over 2 New Testament writers, but they interpret James to show that he is not talking about works like some people say he is to justify their position with Paul, but Paul and James are saying the same thing.

The Bible is the most misinterpreted book in the history of mankind, for many people want to hear it their way, and have a belief that is not part of the Bible and interpret scriptures that way.
Matthew, I think that I still have so much to learn and can see how the timeline, knowing what is being addressed is relevant. I agree with that, for sure. I guess that I am not there yet, understanding that is. I put my focus on Him, rather than when His return is to be or how it will be. I look forward to having better understanding and so I pray for His revealing, knowing it will be when He sees fit.
 

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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#51
Satan has many tools, he has infiltrated the church with many false truths, and gospels that come in the name of christ, i think we have to realise not everyone who calls themself our brother or sister or our true brother and sister.
True, sad but true, Brother. Hard one for me to take in though. I had a lady tell me something recently....No they are not your Brothers and Sisters in Christ, you just want them to be.

I just think that is a call hard to make without knowing the heart of others. I suppose He says this about that...

By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
John 13:35 NASB
 

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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#52
I can see the before Him and after Him differences, but I think they should both lead us to the same conclusion. He is and will always be.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,751
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#53
Do you think He to the heart of stone, and made it a heart of flesh? Did He not filfill the law, in all that He did? He showed us how to be and then died to give Himself and His atonement to us. We don't have to, we want to because the law is now in our hearts. Not thou shalt or thou shalt not but this is how you please Him, by believing and agreeing with Him and what He has to say, lining all our thoughts, actions, words and even emotions with the will of His. I realize that we will never be able to fulfill the law, that if we were, His atonement would not have been necessary, that it is about faith. I just think ultimately that has always been His message to all who are willing to truly believe.
Well, not to the Jew under the law. If they wanted their sins forgiven, a blood sacrifice was a must. No sacrifice, no forgiveness.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#54
When did the Jew and Gentile become one? Before or after the cross?
Hi John,
My view is that the Church/Body of Christ is born at Pentecost. It's here that the indewlling Holy Spirit is given to man. Having said that, there is a period of transition. Before both Jew & Gentile are made into one.

Scripture tells us salvation/the eternal sealing of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Is to the Jew 1st, then the gentile (Rom 1:16, 2:9 & 10).

Only Jews are on the Temple Mt during Pentecost Holy Spirit outpouring. It's aprox 7 years later at Cornelius house the door of salvation/the eternal sealing of the indwelling Holy Spirit is given to gentiles (Acts 10:44).

The transition to Jew & gentile becoming ONE takes another step 14 years later in 51 AD the Council at Jerusalem. After much debate, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit the Apostles conclude gentiles are not under the law of Moses (Acts 15:23-24). The Temple is still fully operational & the center piece of Jewish life.

The final step comes in 70 AD when the Temple is destroyed. It's here that the Church/Body of Christ becomes ONE!
 

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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#55
Well, not to the Jew under the law. If they wanted their sins forgiven, a blood sacrifice was a must. No sacrifice, no forgiveness.
But that was merely pointing to the same thing, a type, of the supreme sacrifice. I hear what you are saying, but do you believe the ultimate message of His ppl, all who are circumcised in the heart, is the same? Don't you think all points to Christ.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#56
Hi John,
My view is that the Church/Body of Christ is born at Pentecost. It's here that the indewlling Holy Spirit is given to man. Having said that, there is a period of transition. Before both Jew & Gentile are made into one.

Scripture tells us salvation/the eternal sealing of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Is to the Jew 1st, then the gentile (Rom 1:16, 2:9 & 10).

Only Jews are on the Temple Mt during Pentecost Holy Spirit outpouring. It's aprox 7 years later at Cornelius house the door of salvation/the eternal sealing of the indwelling Holy Spirit is given to gentiles (Acts 10:44).

The transition to Jew & gentile becoming ONE takes another step 14 years later in 51 AD the Council at Jerusalem. After much debate, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit the Apostles conclude gentiles are not under the law of Moses (Acts 15:23-24). The Temple is still fully operational & the center piece of Jewish life.

The final step comes in 70 AD when the Temple is destroyed. It's here that the Church/Body of Christ becomes ONE!
Your scope of understanding is much broader than mine. I am encouraged to keep digging in.
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,948
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113
#59
True, sad but true, Brother. Hard one for me to take in though. I had a lady tell me something recently....No they are not your Brothers and Sisters in Christ, you just want them to be.

I just think that is a call hard to make without knowing the heart of others. I suppose He says this about that...

By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
John 13:35 NASB
I agree, but i think you can also tell by their gospel. Paul mad the warning when he stood against the legalistic jews who tried to add works to grace, while i agree, can not judge a person, we are told to stand firm against certain doctrines.

This is where it gets tough, how do we do this in a way which pleases christ?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,751
2,174
113
#60
But that was merely pointing to the same thing, a type, of the supreme sacrifice. I hear what you are saying, but do you believe the ultimate message of His ppl, all who are circumcised in the heart, is the same? Don't you think all points to Christ.
Sure, but do you think as those Jews were making those sacrifices they were saying, hey, this is like Jesus is going to do in the future except He’s going to be resurrected the third day. Or did they simply do the sacrifices because that’s what God told them to do as part of the law?