Allah and Christ

[Absolutely]

Yes, I have an Indonesian 'Terjemahan Baru' Bible in my books somewhere. I usually use online versions if I need it. It's the standard Bible translation used in Indonesia since the 1960's. There was a previous version. The Indonesian Bible Society puts them out. The various denominations use it, the Reformed Churches, Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc. use the Terjemahan Baru Bible. There are some other translations but they are rarely used.


Yohanes 3:16 TB
Karena begitu besar kasih Allah akan dunia ini, sehingga Ia telah mengaruniakan Anak-Nya yang tunggal, supaya setiap orang yang percaya kepada-Nya tidak binasa, melainkan beroleh hidup yang kekal.

Use control-f and look up 'Allah' to see the many languages that use 'Allah' in this verse:

http://www.everytongue.com/john/index.htm

Wiki article;
"Morey argues that "Allah" was the name of a moon goddess in pre-Islamic Arabic mythology, the implication being that "Allah" as the term for God in Islam implies that Muslims worship a different deity than the Judeo-Christian one. The use of a lunar calendar and the prevalence of crescent moon imagery in Islam is said by some to be the origin of this hypothesis.[5] Joseph Lumbard, a professor of classical Islam, has stated that the idea is "not only an insult to Muslims but also an insult to Arab Christians who use the name 'Allah' for God."[6]"

Allah originated as the moon god.

Play it backwards and " allah" a murderer gave his son on a cross????

Heresy

 

[presidente]

Wiki article;
"Morey argues that "Allah" was the name of a moon goddess in pre-Islamic Arabic mythology, the implication being that "Allah" as the term for God in Islam implies that Muslims worship a different deity than the Judeo-Christian one. The use of a lunar calendar and the prevalence of crescent moon imagery in Islam is said by some to be the origin of this hypothesis.[5] Joseph Lumbard, a professor of classical Islam, has stated that the idea is "not only an insult to Muslims but also an insult to Arab Christians who use the name 'Allah' for God."[6]"

Allah originated as the moon god.

It may be that the Sabeans called their moon god 'the god' and the sun goddess 'the goddess' in Arabic. But does that invalidate the use of 'Allah' to refer to the true God. Consider Hebrew and Canaanite. I suppose one could view them as dialects of the same language. The Ugarits, before Abraham, used 'El' as the name of the head of a pantheon, a god who got drunk and fell in his own urine and feces. This is not the Biblical God, but the Bible calls the true God 'El', also in 'El-Elyon'-- God most high, El-Shaddai, etc.

Hindus will write 'God' and they have this idea of a pantheistic universe, but use the same word.

Play it backwards and " allah" a murderer gave his son on a cross????

Huh? Play what backwards?

 

[presidente]

I do not accept that Christianity is a religion. I call the various "isms" religion. Christianity is a relationship with God through Christ. I believe that Satan is setting up a world wide religion that will suck in billions of people. It will be a merger of the "3 great monotheistic religions", i.e. Roman Catholicism, Judaism and Islam. Their head is Satan, not God. It is a counterfeit of the real thing, the true church whose head is Lord Jesus.

Between the time I was in elementary school in the 1980's and about the time I started college, the word 'religion' had come to be a bad word-- almost exclusively among evangelicals. For unbelievers 'religion' meant the worship or belief in God or gods... or something like that. But in the cultural bubble of evangelical churches, 'preachers tried to redefine religion' to mean something bad-- trying to reach God with your own works, empty rituals, etc.

So then you have these unbelievers visit church and the preacher tries to convince them that religion is a bad thing and they have to figure out what 'religion' means to these people. It seems to me to be a hindrence to communication and therefore evangelism.

I did not participate in this redefinition of the word 'religion'. It still does not make sense to me. Our Bibles talk about pure religion and vain religion in James 1. Pure religion is a good thing. 'Religion' was used as basically the equivalent of 'Christianity' in Puritan writings and some of the other historical writings.

I think it probably grew out of some writings of Karl Barth combined with certain evangelicals trying to cater to the language of the so-called 'spiritual but not religious crowd' which was around at least in the 1960's. Hal Lindsey wrote that Christianity is not a religion; it is a relationship in his 'Late Great Planet Earth.' Many preachers have preached that slogan as if it were the gospel.

Indeed, among American Evangelicals, it seems like the "It's not a religion; it's a relationship" has replaced the Biblical gospel. In my experience, I think in most cases in recent years, evangelical preachers will leave out the part about Jesus dying for our sins and certainly the part about his rising from the dead-- the stuff of the Gospel in the opening verses of I Corinthians 15 where Paul defines in, the messages we see in the sermons of the apostles in Acts-- and instead say this stuff about religion and relationship. While relationship with God is an important part of our faith, we come to it through faith in the Gospel, not without it.

 

[infinitekhanol]

When Christians were under attack by Muslims, Jacinda simply ignored that. But when a mosque was attacked by a gunman she went on the warpath, and went to extremes to appease Muslims, even wearing a hijab. [Commonwealth countries have prime ministers, not presidents] More recently she has shown herself to be another COVID tyrant.

There is rarely any retaliation against Muslims even after all the atrocities they have committed in Western cities. But this became a big deal, while thousands of Christians have been targeted slaughtered by Muslims almost daily, and the politicians have looked the other way.

The problem is with the ignorant and arrogant Western politicians like Ardern who refuse to accept the fact that Radical Islam is (1) worldwide and (2) at war with the West. Instead they coddle Muslims and literally invite them to destroy their own countries by opening the door to massive migrant invasion, with Muslims erecting mosques in the thousands. But if Christian churches were erected in Muslim lands they would be banned and destroyed. The persecution of Christians by Muslims is a fact of life and the unspeakable atrocities of ISIS and others have generally been ignored.

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

The scripture instructs us to fight with love love and love always even when persecuted. And, wear all the armour of God -- to bring down all strongholds to the obedience of Christ. Love repels works of darkness. Christians must fight by way of righteousness. The prayers of the righteous avails much. It is my believe that no world government can fight the spiritual battle of its citizens whether in a collective sense or individual battles.

Some Commonwealth Countries have President as their head. But it seems majority have Prime Ministers.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Some one the other day spoke to me that Allah is just another name for the same God as christianity.

I was surprised cos this was coming from a Christian, but it made me think what really separates that two.

I looked at a dvd on comparing Allah and Christ and the key thing is the Christian God IS Jesus and is a triune God.. where Allah is not triune... and Jesus is only a prophet (altho somehow still born of a virgin!)

But yes.. there seems a trend at least here in NZ to make Christian's and muslims 'one'.

I think it's coming from the Pope down to the masses

Is there anything wrong in seeking peace with your fellow human beings? The bible encourages all to seek for peace.

The Pope is not trying to make Moslems and Christians one in the sense you are implying. He is seeking for enabling environment where both Christians and Moslems can dwell in peace. How can you preach the gospel to them if you are always at war with each and every Moslem?

 

[infinitekhanol]

God is the same word but not the same name or characteristics. Remember the God of the Bible is called by many characteristics and the name I Am or Yahweh. So when comparing the God of the Bible and god of the quran you must compare characteristics.

Whether we call him I AM or Yahweh, it is the same God of Abraham, the creator of the Universe, we have in mind.

Have you considered Acts 17:16 - 23 where Paul told the Pagans that the unknown god they were worshiping is the same God he was preaching to them. You may also have to read the case of Cornelius before he was directed to meet Peter in Acts 10. What is in question is not whether Muslems and Christians worship the same God-- for they do--- It is the understanding of this God and manner of worship that needs to be addressed.

 

[infinitekhanol]

the false god allah claims “God certainly has no son. “

it’s actually written on the dome of the rock in Jerusalem that sits on top of the old temple mound where Gods temple used to stand before 67ad now there’s a Muslim mosque claiming in gigantic letters “ God certainly has no son “

I would say it’s an antichrist false delusion

Can we truly say that Christians who do not believe in the Trinity are not Christians? or Is it their understanding that is in question?

 

[infinitekhanol]

I would say that from God's perspective as He dwells in eternity, there is a part of His experience where He has not yet made the decision to descend and become a Man; and also in that experience He may even not want to go through the suffering that would be involved in dying for the sins of the world. This may be the part of God who says that God has never begotten a Son.

However, there comes a point where God, in his infinite love, becomes convinced of the necessity of descending to take on an added nature of human flesh so that He can die in our place.

Since all of this exists within His eternal nature, I would contend that a part of Him desires not to descend while another part of Him has eternally purposed to descend.

Thus there may even be a war within the heart of God between His eternal natures of justice and mercy.

Justice requires that all sins be punished according to the severity of the sins.

Mercy desires that we receive less than what our iniquity deserves.

In order for God to continue to be just in showing mercy to the sinner, sin must be punished somehow.

So, God substituted His own life and died in our place so that our sins might be punished in Him.

This is the only way that the Lord can be both merciful and just.

So, the Cross is the ultimate conclusion to these warring attributes in the heart of God.

As soon as God, from His infinite perspective, realizes that this is the only way, He ceases to be Allah and becomes Jehovah who has eternally purposed to beget a Son (Ephesians 3:11).

Your post is full of riddles. How do I understand your meaning?

 

[infinitekhanol]

Did you even bother to read post #3? Allah is not the LORD God Almighty and vice versa since Allah has consigned Christians to Hell. So this is neither anti-Arab nor dumb. Study the Qu'ran and see for yourself.

I believe you have read the biblical account of how God enabled the Israelites of old to wipe out Canaanites and occupy their land. The same way we criticize their Koran is the way some non- Christians criticise our bible. What if this aspect of their Koran was modelled after this aspect of our bible? You see, understanding is key.

What I am trying to say is that because their Koran contains such things you said does not not mean their Allah is different from our God. The understanding and manner of worship is what differs. These differences we also see in Christendom.

 

[infinitekhanol]

OR, a certain generation of Arabs refused to accept that Isaac was given the birthright, insisting it was Ismael.

So they invented a new religion with Ismael given the birthright and claimed the same God.

In this case the whole thing is based on a lie, and Allah is an invention of the mind.

Is this not just an imagination of your heart, born not out of facts

 

[infinitekhanol]

Radical Islamists take those verses literally and Radical Islam is presently at war with (1) the West, (2) the Great Satan (America), (3) Christians, (4) Jews, (5) Yazidis, and (6) everyone who is not a Muslim. And Islam has a huge swath of the world's population stretching from SE Asia all the way to Europe.

The goal of Radical Islam is a worldwide Caliphate. So migrant invasion by Muslims (along with thousands of mosques) into North America and Europe is not by chance. They hate Western culture and values, but their plan is to destroy them from inside. How did anti-Semitic Muslims get into the US Congress? By default, since American and Western politicians are still clueless about Islam. And Black Muslim Louis Farrakhan (buddy of Barack Obama) is allowed to get away with slogans like "Kill all Whites!".

I think radical Islam does not spare Muslims either except their sponsors and those who do what they like.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Amen it’s basically the definition of anti christ

people forget the devil doesn’t announce he’s the devil he claims to be of the light. The unholy quran is designed to say Christianity is a false religion and a sin worthy of death to believe in Jesus the son of God

If we cannot condenm all Muslems as radical, then, one can say it is not the Quran that is the problem but the understanding, just as it is with our bible.

 

[infinitekhanol]

“And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”

Amen Islam denies at its very core that God sent his son or has any son, puts Jesus beneath Muhammad as a man and prophet only which denies the core of Christianity


The Bible says at its core

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


the unholy book of Islam wars against that at all cost


“The Jews say Ezra is the son of God, while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of God. Such are their assertions, by which they imitate the infidels of old. God confound them! How perverse they are!
—Qur’an 9:30

“Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth; how can He have a son when He has no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.
—Qur'an 6:101

They say, ‘God has begotten a son.’ God forbid! Self-sufficient is He. His is all that the heavens and the earth contain. Surely for this you have no sanction. Whould you say of God what you know not?
—Qur’an 10:68

many many more it’s one of the cores of thier faith that separates them entirely from the true God.

they deny everything Christians believe and call it perverse. In the end times in thoer scripture they go about persecuting and killing all Christians and anyone who will not believe in allah and deny everything else

my guess is knowing Islam is spread in the cross the globe faster than any other religion it is the religion that will war against Christ claiming another God

The bible tells us --go into the world and preach the gospel. Well, since this problem of understanding has been identified, it creates a great opportunity for all to go into the world and preach the gospel. Don't you think so?

 

[infinitekhanol]

In the Quran scriptures, Christ(Isa) did not die on a cross, but was substituted with another individual. When the Mahdi(12th Imam)comes, Christ will be the one to destroy all heretics who called Him God and establish Islam as the world religion. Actually, it’s the complete opposite as what is written in Revaluation.

Go into the world and preach the gospel, the bible enjoins us because opportunities abound to win souls

 

[infinitekhanol]

indeed Mohammed is their real “ messiah “ Jesus was a good man and prophet but certainly he was not the son of God. “

it makes them immediately and exactly opposed to Christianity it’s probably why they have been warring against Christians and Jews for ages now

also I think that the fact that a mosque claiming God has no son is part of the abomination of desolation

Jesus who suffered so much was spit upon , beaten by jew and gentile both , whipped by the Romans , insulted and accused by Israel called a blasphemer and led through the streets of Gods beloved city , nailed brutally tonthe cross where he suffocated under the Weoght of mans sin rose up later and ascended to the father in heaven

to invent a religion that denies him is an abomination in my sight and to set up a mosque claiming so on the temple mound in Jerusalem just highlights what Islam is for me

not to mention of you look at Muslim dominated countries the terror they rule the people with and injustices they commit the killing indiscriminately those things are of the devil not of God who ruled his people with living and active fatherly enduring and powerful love

his wrath is for the rest of people who choose to rebel and be his enemy

I can see your emotions poured out for Jesus. It is heart warming.

 

[infinitekhanol]

What makes it so sad is that all of Islam is and will suffer because of the Jihadists.

Reminds me of when I was in the army, just a handful of idiots caused all of us to suffer.

Idiots?

 

[infinitekhanol]

we the believers in the world are to share the good news and some will repent , no one is yet lost but the gospel needs to be preached or belief will never come

Jesus can save anyone !!!

You are now talking. Preach the gospel!

 

[Demi777]

Finally.
We hear the real deal.

You're welcome

 

[Absolutely]

Between the time I was in elementary school in the 1980's and about the time I started college, the word 'religion' had come to be a bad word-- almost exclusively among evangelicals. For unbelievers 'religion' meant the worship or belief in God or gods... or something like that. But in the cultural bubble of evangelical churches, 'preachers tried to redefine religion' to mean something bad-- trying to reach God with your own works, empty rituals, etc.

So then you have these unbelievers visit church and the preacher tries to convince them that religion is a bad thing and they have to figure out what 'religion' means to these people. It seems to me to be a hindrence to communication and therefore evangelism.

I did not participate in this redefinition of the word 'religion'. It still does not make sense to me. Our Bibles talk about pure religion and vain religion in James 1. Pure religion is a good thing. 'Religion' was used as basically the equivalent of 'Christianity' in Puritan writings and some of the other historical writings.

I think it probably grew out of some writings of Karl Barth combined with certain evangelicals trying to cater to the language of the so-called 'spiritual but not religious crowd' which was around at least in the 1960's. Hal Lindsey wrote that Christianity is not a religion; it is a relationship in his 'Late Great Planet Earth.' Many preachers have preached that slogan as if it were the gospel.

Indeed, among American Evangelicals, it seems like the "It's not a religion; it's a relationship" has replaced the Biblical gospel. In my experience, I think in most cases in recent years, evangelical preachers will leave out the part about Jesus dying for our sins and certainly the part about his rising from the dead-- the stuff of the Gospel in the opening verses of I Corinthians 15 where Paul defines in, the messages we see in the sermons of the apostles in Acts-- and instead say this stuff about religion and relationship. While relationship with God is an important part of our faith, we come to it through faith in the Gospel, not without it.

religions have a dead gods. None have a living resurrected savior.

religion says "do"
Christianity says "done"

Religion stretches a ladder to heaven
Christianity has God stretching a ladder to earth.

That's the basis for saying christianity is not a religion. It is completely different.

 

[Absolutely]

It may be that the Sabeans called their moon god 'the god' and the sun goddess 'the goddess' in Arabic. But does that invalidate the use of 'Allah' to refer to the true God. Consider Hebrew and Canaanite. I suppose one could view them as dialects of the same language. The Ugarits, before Abraham, used 'El' as the name of the head of a pantheon, a god who got drunk and fell in his own urine and feces. This is not the Biblical God, but the Bible calls the true God 'El', also in 'El-Elyon'-- God most high, El-Shaddai, etc.

Hindus will write 'God' and they have this idea of a pantheistic universe, but use the same word.


Huh? Play what backwards?

assume "allah" would properly transpose into "God" in the holy bible.

We would see "allah" (a murderer) actually written in place of "God".....since you say they are the exact same person.