AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?
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If you would believe in what Christ says about the law you would not preach the way you do. You say it only condemns, Christ says he didn't change it but he added to it. Christ asked us to listen to what He says about it and be obedient if we love Him.
No one is condemning you, scripture is against what you say. In that way you condemn yourself. When you say something that does not agree with scripture, what you say that is opposed to what scripture says is brought out.
No one is condemning you, scripture is against what you say. In that way you condemn yourself. When you say something that does not agree with scripture, what you say that is opposed to what scripture says is brought out.
E
I do believe what he says about the law.
You do not.
No, God did, Moses did, Jesus did, Paul did. Everyone did.
No he said he fulfilled it.
Being obedient is not following the law of moses. It is following the law of Christ and the spirit.
The law of moses demands perfections. If we break even the least of ALL the commands, we are found guilty of the whole law. We can not follow it if we continually break it. It is impossible.
lol. Ok I can not remember if you have, but they certainly have.
No scripture confirms what I say. Whether you like it or not is not my fault. I chose to follow scripture not men.
You means like what you do?
these argments are fruitless. All you seem to do is demand I am not listening, yet you do not listen either.. How can you demand I do what you refuse to do yourself?
I am not demanding you listen, I am just going to continue to show. WHat you do with it, is up to you
You do not.
No, God did, Moses did, Jesus did, Paul did. Everyone did.
No he said he fulfilled it.
Being obedient is not following the law of moses. It is following the law of Christ and the spirit.
The law of moses demands perfections. If we break even the least of ALL the commands, we are found guilty of the whole law. We can not follow it if we continually break it. It is impossible.
lol. Ok I can not remember if you have, but they certainly have.
No scripture confirms what I say. Whether you like it or not is not my fault. I chose to follow scripture not men.
You means like what you do?
these argments are fruitless. All you seem to do is demand I am not listening, yet you do not listen either.. How can you demand I do what you refuse to do yourself?
I am not demanding you listen, I am just going to continue to show. WHat you do with it, is up to you
the sermon on the mount.
Matthew 5
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Matthew 5
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
C
The day I was born, it was written on my heart (the example of the Gentiles fulfilling the Law, although they did not have the Law, is a good example of the Lord enlightening everyone who comes upon this Earth (the Law from Christ)).
It is the Law from Christ which speaks of godliness, morality.
The Law given through Moses was given so that there would be an acknowledgement of sin and by which, all were sentenced to Death. But, that Law from Christ does not sentence us to Death, but morally leads us to the Light. What a delight it must be to God to see those who hunger and thirst for His righteous path, that path which speaks His morals.
They who teach lasciviousness teaches immorality and I have yet to have seen only ONE person here on CC who taught that we are free to sin as we PLEASE, only ONE. If we are hearkening to the Spirit, then by this Law from Christ (love), we are satisfying the Law from God (dos and donts). I agree, that same Law would condemn them.
More in agreement then not:
Jesus was talking about satisfying God's will (those moral laws from God which are fulfilled by the act of love) by the Law He has given (actually a reassertion of God's command to love Him and others). It is about a good conscience before God, not the putting away of the filth from the flesh. And we have a good conscience before God when we hearken to His Spirit who leads us to fulfill God's Law through that moral thing we call love.
And as you have implied, am I really fulfilling God's Law if I only hearken to the Spirit when He convicts me to not commit adultery, yet, ignore Him when He convicts me of the immorality of evil thinking? Can I exist as a Christian with my thoughts in a state of contradicting my heart and conscious and the Spirit?
It is the Law from Christ which speaks of godliness, morality.
The Law given through Moses was given so that there would be an acknowledgement of sin and by which, all were sentenced to Death. But, that Law from Christ does not sentence us to Death, but morally leads us to the Light. What a delight it must be to God to see those who hunger and thirst for His righteous path, that path which speaks His morals.
They who teach lasciviousness teaches immorality and I have yet to have seen only ONE person here on CC who taught that we are free to sin as we PLEASE, only ONE. If we are hearkening to the Spirit, then by this Law from Christ (love), we are satisfying the Law from God (dos and donts). I agree, that same Law would condemn them.
More in agreement then not:
Jesus was talking about satisfying God's will (those moral laws from God which are fulfilled by the act of love) by the Law He has given (actually a reassertion of God's command to love Him and others). It is about a good conscience before God, not the putting away of the filth from the flesh. And we have a good conscience before God when we hearken to His Spirit who leads us to fulfill God's Law through that moral thing we call love.
And as you have implied, am I really fulfilling God's Law if I only hearken to the Spirit when He convicts me to not commit adultery, yet, ignore Him when He convicts me of the immorality of evil thinking? Can I exist as a Christian with my thoughts in a state of contradicting my heart and conscious and the Spirit?
D
That makes it sound like Jesus committed suicide on the cross, which is a sin. Pilate's wife told him she had a dream and she warned him to take no action against Jesus:
So I think you may be incorrect in saying this was God's perfect will for Christ to die in this hideous manner. I believe God had another plan, but that is academic at this point.
Pontus Pilate tried his best to let Jesus go. He even declared Jesus to be innocent, but the Jews persisted in demanding His death. Ultimately the Jews plotted His death and virtually forced Pilot to murder an innocent man, very sad.
So I think you may be incorrect in saying this was God's perfect will for Christ to die in this hideous manner. I believe God had another plan, but that is academic at this point.
Pontus Pilate tried his best to let Jesus go. He even declared Jesus to be innocent, but the Jews persisted in demanding His death. Ultimately the Jews plotted His death and virtually forced Pilot to murder an innocent man, very sad.
E
YES
Yes
Amen and Amen
Think about it. Yes I agree, They teach immorality.
But do not also legalists also teach immorality? (although instead of excusing ALL sin, they excuse their own personal sin, as they praise themselves for keeping whatever commands they are keeping. And never admit they are just as guilty as the licentious?
Both are based on Pride, A self centered lifestyle.
They teach we must follow mosaic law. But they do not admit they can not follow it. And condemn those of us who try to bring this to their attention as licentious people trying to excuse our own sin, which is simply not the case.
Yes.
What good is it if I puff myself up for not committing adultry, murder I do not steal or fornicate, I do not covet my neighbors things,
Yet my whole life and being is based on coveting the newest xbox, the newest car, the newest clothes.
I see myself as a follower of Gods law. But Gods law (mosaic) in fact condemns me (If I break the least of the commands, I am found guilty of breaking the whole law)
E
I do not think he has ever came right out and said it, But if you listen to what she says, she surely believes it, You can come to no other conlcusion.
And by the way, I did not say some of the mosaic law. I said if it was not followed in a certain way (in other words. One can sin themselves out of salvation)
There a few posts I have seen like this. It would be way to hard to go over every post and find them. But if yuo look will heard you will see it.
I would love to see him deny it though. But then he would have some explaining to do.
And by the way, I did not say some of the mosaic law. I said if it was not followed in a certain way (in other words. One can sin themselves out of salvation)
There a few posts I have seen like this. It would be way to hard to go over every post and find them. But if yuo look will heard you will see it.
I would love to see him deny it though. But then he would have some explaining to do.
C
you do understand Just me is picking and chosing which law to follow do you not?
You do understand he ignores the fact that once the schoolmaster has led us to Christ, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
You do understand just me believes if the law is not followed in a certain way, A person can not be saved, or will lose their salvation do you not?
I haven't endorsed any particular laws to follow. I have said "all or nothing" because we live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. I have said many times that it should be the Christians intention to continue to die daily as Paul said He did. If we forget the route to Jesus that the schoolmaster showed us, then we are trying to find Christ by a different avenue than what God has given. The flesh is incapable, and the heart's motive to see the law as spiritual should be our quest to have the Word of God reveal our character, and His character to us by looking into the glass James talked about. Then the law is seen as the "law of liberty." If one claims that as me saying the the law has to be followed a certain way so be it. What I have described, more times than once, is that Christians do not see the law God gave to Moses as something negative. If that is the case, I have made it clear with scripture that the carnal mind cannot be subject to the law. It just can't because it only sees the physical aspects.
......
For further explainations on how I view the law God gave to Moses see http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/88139-talking-against-law-dangerous.html post #757
We Christians should see God's written morals as spiritual, without such, we deny the Law having ever been written on our heart. God is moral and He has told us what is good or evil before His eyes. And as the Spirit speaks, hearken to Him and you will fulfill what is required from God, that same Law commanded to us by our Lord and Christ, Jesus.
You and I seem to have the same music taste
Find where I said that, and I will call myself a liar. I have, however quoted this. it's the law.
Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Matthew 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Matthew 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
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I have made it clear that I disagree with those that say when faith comes the law goes away. On the contrary according to Paul.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The schoolmaster shows us the route to Christ, and if faith gives us the right to take a different route than hat God has established, I suppose I would certainly have to disagree with that, because it would seem to me that dying daily as Paul said he did wouldn't work very well.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The schoolmaster shows us the route to Christ, and if faith gives us the right to take a different route than hat God has established, I suppose I would certainly have to disagree with that, because it would seem to me that dying daily as Paul said he did wouldn't work very well.
C
I see what you are saying.
The Law states that we need a sacrifice. So, under the New Covenant, we Christians continue to need the covering of Christ's blood.
The Law states that we need a High Priest between us and God. So, under the New Covenant, we Christians continue to need Christ as our High Priest.
ETC....
Correct?
The Law states that we need a sacrifice. So, under the New Covenant, we Christians continue to need the covering of Christ's blood.
The Law states that we need a High Priest between us and God. So, under the New Covenant, we Christians continue to need Christ as our High Priest.
ETC....
Correct?
K
Racism is a devise of the devil, no matter what race it is, even Jews. The Jews did not kill Jesus.
IT WAS GOD'S AND CHRIST'S LOVE FOR HUMANITY THAT ULTIMATELY KILLED JESUS CHRIST.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whomsoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).
But then you think God was "surprised" by the turn of events, that it was not His perfect will..
and that is "academic"? I'd say, more like your foundation is cracked.
IT WAS GOD'S AND CHRIST'S LOVE FOR HUMANITY THAT ULTIMATELY KILLED JESUS CHRIST.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whomsoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).
But then you think God was "surprised" by the turn of events, that it was not His perfect will..
and that is "academic"? I'd say, more like your foundation is cracked.
E
1. Your right. Faith proves the law. it fulfills the law. It proves the schoolmaster has done its job.
2. If one does not come to faith, they have taken another schoolmaster. and not one of faith.
,
again your right.. This was as paul says the purpose of the law.
and again your right, and I would agree 100%
And here is where you get off the path.
Dying daily is not following law. It is dying to self.
If this is part of the schoolmaster, then paul was never led to Christ, and he has yet to come to faith. And if you are still considering yourself under the schoolmaster, then neither have you.
Because paul makes it clear.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Why would paul place himself back under the schoomaster, if he tells us once faith has come (thus the law fulfilled) we are no longer under the schoolmaster.
and you wonder why I think you teach one can lose salvation if they do not follow some aspect of the law (whatever your version of it is)
Ezekiel 4:5-10
I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the people of Israel. [SUP]6 [/SUP]‘After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the people of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.
Ok now here is some more evidence that people did follow Gods word in the old tested because look at the huge difference
only 40 days for the people Judah but for the people of Israel 390 . As we know that Judah Joshua allocated the land among the twelve tribes. Judah's divinely ordained portion is described in Joshua 15 as encompassing most of the southern portion of the Land of Israel, including Jerusalem.
Joshua 15
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
Land allotted to Judah
15 The land allotted to the tribe of Judah, according to its clans, extended down to the territory of Edom, to the Desert of Zin in the extreme south.
So judah was massive yes so this clearly says that many where following Gods word and like i pointed in my last post which i will remind you off Jeremiah 11:14
4"Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not listen when they call to Me because of their disaster. Here the lord is speaking to the jews in the old tesrtement who know him.
And here the lord is saying you are my people dont listen to the other people.
John 10:14
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me.
,
ok here in the new testement the lord is again saying,, people are in fold who know me and they will never come out of his fold
Ok look at thees two scriptures please and see if you can see what i see.
John 10:27 [SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
john 10:5 [SUP]5 [/SUP]But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognise a stranger’s voice.
I think both these verses are identical to Jeremiah 11:14
all this clearly says to me that people where following Gods commandments now whether they where following all of moses law like cival laws and health laws and ceremonial laws is another matter but they i dont think they where breaking some of the big commandments because they would be stoned for such things.
the commandments like the sabbath here like this sabbath look
Isaiah 58:13-14
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]‘If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honour it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
[SUP]14 [/SUP]then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.’
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
quite clearly God said you are people and they where doing this above becuase quite clearly if they where not they would all be dead because something they where stone to death for so that tells we should all honor the sabbath and pray for are brothers and sister to do the same . God bless
I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the people of Israel. [SUP]6 [/SUP]‘After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the people of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.
Ok now here is some more evidence that people did follow Gods word in the old tested because look at the huge difference
only 40 days for the people Judah but for the people of Israel 390 . As we know that Judah Joshua allocated the land among the twelve tribes. Judah's divinely ordained portion is described in Joshua 15 as encompassing most of the southern portion of the Land of Israel, including Jerusalem.
Joshua 15
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
Land allotted to Judah
15 The land allotted to the tribe of Judah, according to its clans, extended down to the territory of Edom, to the Desert of Zin in the extreme south.
So judah was massive yes so this clearly says that many where following Gods word and like i pointed in my last post which i will remind you off Jeremiah 11:14
4"Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not listen when they call to Me because of their disaster. Here the lord is speaking to the jews in the old tesrtement who know him.
And here the lord is saying you are my people dont listen to the other people.
John 10:14
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me.
,
ok here in the new testement the lord is again saying,, people are in fold who know me and they will never come out of his fold
Ok look at thees two scriptures please and see if you can see what i see.
John 10:27 [SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
john 10:5 [SUP]5 [/SUP]But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognise a stranger’s voice.
I think both these verses are identical to Jeremiah 11:14
all this clearly says to me that people where following Gods commandments now whether they where following all of moses law like cival laws and health laws and ceremonial laws is another matter but they i dont think they where breaking some of the big commandments because they would be stoned for such things.
the commandments like the sabbath here like this sabbath look
Isaiah 58:13-14
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]‘If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honour it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
[SUP]14 [/SUP]then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.’
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
quite clearly God said you are people and they where doing this above becuase quite clearly if they where not they would all be dead because something they where stone to death for so that tells we should all honor the sabbath and pray for are brothers and sister to do the same . God bless
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we are people whom at times rely only on the factual definitions of certain words ,,,,,,,,,today we should look up and post the definition of,,,,,"covenant",,,,,and then,,,,,, "testament",,,,set them side by side and notice that the one is the displayed or spoken "WILL" of they whom conveyed it(god in this case),,,,,and the other,,,the agreement to fulfill the "will",,,of the testament of the party who gave it,,,,,,,,,,,,,