AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[KohenMatt]

Now all you need is some discernment on who does the commandments and who doesn't.

Be ye perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. That is what the Lord Jesus says. That was His words magnifying the law.

Are you going to teach to rest on saturdays and observe feasts to accomplish that? Lets just say that I think you are missing the mark...

Then please share with us the proper "discernment" on who Jesus is telling to keep the commandments.

And no, Sabbaths and Feast Days don't make us perfect. Only salvation does. Thank you for making a false and baseless assumption about me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you only see them as a list of rules, they will be burdensome to you.

But if you are looking for practical ways to live your life, practical ways to love your neighbor as yourself, practical ways to love God with all of your heart, soul, strength and mind, then the commandments of the OT can be good guidelines. Not the only ones mind you, but good ones.

Personally, I can find a real life spiritual and/or physical application to every command in the OT. Each of those, when done through the revelation, guidance and strength of the Spirit, allows me to honor God with every part of my life, no matter how minute. Do I do them all the time, or even do them well? Hardly. But they show me how to love my neighbor in real ways. Not just say I do. They show me how to love God with every part of my life. Not just say I do.

But again, if you only view them as a list of rules, instead of God's instructions on how live in communion with a holy and perfect God, well then, there's some pretty powerful revelation there.

God views then as list of rules. He also calls these rules ministers of death.

Gal 3: [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,


How can the ministry of death, which is passing away (the ten commands) lead us to fulfill the fruit of the spirit? WHich paul says there is no law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, sin is a curse and the law outlines ways sin can be lived in everyday life. Sin is a curse. To say that means that the word of God telling us how to live to express God is a curse is a terrible thing to do.

I did not call it a curse. GOD DID (through moses and through paul), Your argument is with him (sin was not carved in stone, the law was, so I am not sure why you are calling the law sin and saying that is what curses)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by ZINZERIO

Actual keeping the ten commandments through the word of the new covenant is what saves you



originaly posted by zinzerio

as i believe the ten commandments cover every eventuality You can take THAT as me thinking it is only works that saves or you could take it as works through faith, John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

Again, No one has kept the law. All it can do is condemn. The ordances written in Stone (the ten commands) being a curse, not salvation.

2 cor:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, [SUP]8 [/SUP]how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? [SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

I wasn't sure whether you would do this after reconciliation but you did you have purposely split my whole post to make me look bad
Now that i know you are trouble after reconciliation with i will put with other on my my one week ignore list.


Just for the record everybody this is what wrote in one paragraph Actual keeping the ten commandments through the word of the new covenant is what saves you as i believe the ten commandments cover every eventuality You can take THAT as me thinking it is only works that saves or you could take it as works through faith, John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

if you can all look at eternily grateful post 133 and notice how he has split them up to make me look like a jehova, thanks mate god bless

talk about a mess? How is anyone supposed to read this? I can;t tell what is quoted and what is not.

As for splitting your post up. I answered both parts. We do this all the time.

 

[KohenMatt]

I serve others. As God served me. That is what all Christians should look like.

Practically, how do you serve others? Is it possible that some of the the how's are found in the OT?

It is not obeying commands. All the commands can do is tell me how poorly I am doing, It can not show me how to be a christian.

The commands, or instructions, can absolutely tell you what do, and if you're doing it right. i.e. Don't eat unclean foods. OK, I didn't eat pork. OK, I did it. It's not only telling me that I'm doing it poorly.

What are we jews? trying to appease God by a law non of us can keep? and think that is what God wants??

Who said this? And where?
I can keep plenty of the commands. I can't do them all perfectly, but that was never the sole purpose.

As for the sabbath, There are times we need to serve others, And this would require work. Would this be a sin??

Absolutely not, and hat's exactly what Jesus said. Why do you think the priests had to do double duty on the Sabbath? Because they were serving God, and others.

 

[RedTent]

I did not call it a curse. GOD DID (through moses and through paul), Your argument is with him (sin was not carved in stone, the law was, so I am not sure why you are calling the law sin and saying that is what curses)

It is a curse that sin means death. You are expanding that curse to include all the words given in scripture with instructions to us in it. That scripture was written on stone, and you add that as part of the curse you call scripture. And saying that God declared scripture, not sin, a curse. If you are right, then we have nothing solid of God to rely on, there is no scripture that could not be turned to a curse by time. At the time that Moses carried that stone down the mountain, God did not declare it a curse, so you say that God changed to something else, God can't be relied on, God can change? For me personally, I would rather read scripture as a part of the whole of scripture, with a need for me to understand better than to say that God is not eternal.

 

[KohenMatt]

By Law?

No. We are cursed by the law because we cant keep it.

By Love? By the spirit?

Yes. And the law can not show us how to do either of those

Sure it can.
Does the Spirit ever prompt you to do something? Of course it does.
Was the Holy Spirit involved in the writing of the commands? Of course it was.
Does the Spirit ever prompt someone to follow one of the commands? Absolutely. Every day for me.

 

[Zinzerio]

talk about a mess? How is anyone supposed to read this? I can;t tell what is quoted and what is not.

As for splitting your post up. I answered both parts. We do this all the time.

look at my post everone please post 113

it is one paragraph. It reads,," actually keeping the ten commandments through the word of the new covenant is what saves you as i believe the ten commandments cover every eventuality You can take THAT as me thinking it is only works that saves or you could take it as works through faith, John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

you eternily gratefull have quoted me just on this actually keeping the ten commandments through the word of the new covenant is what saves you

and do not try to get out of it you know exactly what you have done is wrong

 

[Grandpa]

Then please share with us the proper "discernment" on who Jesus is telling to keep the commandments.

And no, Sabbaths and Feast Days don't make us perfect. Only salvation does. Thank you for making a false and baseless assumption about me.

False and baseless??

The question remains, does the law and God's commandments have any application for Christians today?
For salvation? No.
To know how to live a Godly life, and by God's Spirit to try and live it out?
Yes.

Those were your words.

And I wasn't talking about discernment on who Jesus is telling to keep the commandments. Any who would follow after Him is who He is telling to keep the commands.

The discernment I was talking about was who is keeping them and who is not.

I actually thought it was really cool that you would ask what is the physical and actual application of a Christian Life. Deadtosin gave you a very good explanation. I would be willing to expound on that if you were interested...

 

[Zinzerio]

talk about a mess? How is anyone supposed to read this? I can;t tell what is quoted and what is not.

As for splitting your post up. I answered both parts. We do this all the time.

yep you also split the bible to its quite apparent

 

[KohenMatt]

God views then as list of rules. He also calls these rules ministers of death.

Gal 3: [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,


How can the ministry of death, which is passing away (the ten commands) lead us to fulfill the fruit of the spirit? WHich paul says there is no law?

I imagine something is getting lost in translation when you compare the concept of the "ministry of death" with this:

Deuteronomy 28: 1-14

“Now it shall be, if you diligently obey the Lord your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. 2 All these blessings will come upon you and overtake you if you [b]obey the Lord your God:
3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the [c]country.
4 “Blessed shall be the [d]offspring of your [e]body and the [f]produce of your ground and the [g]offspring of your beasts, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock.
5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.
6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.
7 “The Lord shall cause your enemies who rise up against you to be [h]defeated before you; they will come out against you one way and will flee before you seven ways. 8 TheLord will command the blessing upon you in your barns and in all that you put your hand to, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God gives you. 9 The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, as He swore to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 So all the peoples of the earth will see that [i]you are called by the name of the Lord, and they will be afraid of you. 11 The Lord will make you abound in prosperity, in the [j]offspring of your [k]body and in the [l]offspring of your beast and in the [m]produce of your ground, in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The Lord will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hand; and you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 The Lordwill make you the head and not the tail, and you only will be above, and you will not be underneath, if you listen to the commandments of the Lord your God, which I charge you today, to [n]observe them carefully, 14 and do not turn aside from any of the words which I command you today, to the right or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them."

 

[chubbena]

Angela, I think that you have a serious misunderstanding of your God, and you are using individual verses without the whole of God's purpose for us to reach that, and I know from experience that once a mind is stuck in this nothing of scripture will help! And you have great knowledge of scripture.

You need to study Galatians from the point of view of all you know of God. If you read that Paul teaches that all of Moses has to be gotten rid of, even though that would not be in keeping with all the rest of scripture, you are lost as far as understanding truth.

When scripture points out that God is God and it is not our works that God performs His forgiving wonders, it is not God telling us that works told of in the law is wrong, and God says He doesn't want us to have anything more to do with working.

And when God says the new covenant makes the old one obsolete, to read that as God saying He makes a big sweeping black out of obsoleting what God has spoken and all He is obsolete is not right, we have to go into scripture to find out just what it is that is obsolete.

You are always complaining about the scriptures I tell you of, because I give you ones that explain yours and you don't like it. Before, you wanted me to copy the bible for you and not say what it says.

Our problem is that you feel scripture is mainly in the NT, and we must not see the NT repeating the OT, and my problem with you is that I think all of scripture has the same story, centering on salvation through the blood of Christ, and you see it as NT getting rid of much of the Old (obsolete).

you think this is serious misunderstanding pulling individual verses? Wait until one pulls individual words.

 

[KohenMatt]

Now all you need is some discernment on who does the commandments and who doesn't.

Be ye perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. That is what the Lord Jesus says. That was His words magnifying the law.

Are you going to teach to rest on saturdays and observe feasts to accomplish that? Lets just say that I think you are missing the mark...

False and baseless??



Those were your words.

And I wasn't talking about discernment on who Jesus is telling to keep the commandments. Any who would follow after Him is who He is telling to keep the commands.

The discernment I was talking about was who is keeping them and who is not.

I actually thought it was really cool that you would ask what is the physical and actual application of a Christian Life. Deadtosin gave you a very good explanation. I would be willing to expound on that if you were interested...

The "false and blaseless" comment was in regards to you saying I am missing the mark because I think the Sabbath and Feasts make me perfect.

And in all sincerity, give some practical examples of loving others and God.

 

[Deadtosin]

physically I eat my food thankful to God. I physically appreciate having a shower and food and most of all Gods love. It comes out in how I greet Jahova's witnesses at my door. My every encounter with people when I'm out. More softness, more caring, more gentleness. In my careful choices of my words and how they come across. It effects my free time as well. Reading the bible spending that time with God feeling the breeze on a beautiful cloud covered day (like today) It comes out through conversations on this website. Loving each other through Gods love in us. Sharing that time with God. How can a list of rules benefit my week Kohen?

I'm resting with God now.

Kohen. My response wasn't practical?

 

[KohenMatt]

And I wasn't talking about discernment on who Jesus is telling to keep the commandments. Any who would follow after Him is who He is telling to keep the commands.

The discernment I was talking about was who is keeping them and who is not.

So how do you get around Jesus telling His followers to do and teach the law until heaven and earth pass away? And that if they do, they'll be greater than the ones who don't do and teach the law?

 

[KohenMatt]

Kohen. My response wasn't practical?

Absolutely it was practical, and I appreciated the response. I never said otherwise.

I was discussing how the commands and instructions, when seen only as a list of rules, would be burdensome.
But when you view them as straight from the heart of God, and applicable to our life today, they are full of life and blessing.

 

[Zinzerio]

How ever i only make you think eternally grateful we all need to be eternity grateful (yes) (no) I THINK YES
I will say to you will you be eternally grateful and graceful after you read this,
[h=3]Isaiah 1:18[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


[h=3]Psalm 51[/h]Good News Translation (GNT)

[h=3]A Prayer for Forgiveness[SUP][a][/SUP][/h]51 Be merciful to me, O God,
because of your constant love.
Because of your great mercy
wipe away my sins!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Wash away all my evil
and make me clean from my sin!

[SUP]3 [/SUP]I recognize my faults;
I am always conscious of my sins.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I have sinned against you—only against you—
and done what you consider evil.
So you are right in judging me;
you are justified in condemning me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I have been evil from the day I was born;
from the time I was conceived, I have been sinful.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Sincerity and truth are what you require;
fill my mind with your wisdom.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Remove my sin, and I will be clean;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let me hear the sounds of joy and gladness;
and though you have crushed me and broken me,
I will be happy once again.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Close your eyes to my sins
and wipe out all my evil.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Create a pure heart in me, O God,
and put a new and loyal spirit in me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Do not banish me from your presence;
do not take your holy spirit away from me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Give me again the joy that comes from your salvation,
and make me willing to obey you.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then I will teach sinners your commands,
and they will turn back to you.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Spare my life, O God, and save me,[SUP][b][/SUP]
and I will gladly proclaim your righteousness.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Help me to speak, Lord,
and I will praise you.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]You do not want sacrifices,
or I would offer them;
you are not pleased with burnt offerings.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]My sacrifice is a humble spirit, O God;
you will not reject a humble and repentant heart.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]O God, be kind to Zion and help her;
rebuild the walls of Jerusalem.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then you will be pleased with proper sacrifices
and with our burnt offerings;
and bulls will be sacrificed on your altar.

Your farther in heaven is always watching hes always there all you have to do is have a sincere heart and ask hom to help you to follow the commandments amen GOD BLESS

 

[Deadtosin]

Absolutely it was practical, and I appreciated the response. I never said otherwise.

I was discussing how the commands and instructions, when seen only as a list of rules, would be burdensome.
But when you view them as straight from the heart of God, and applicable to our life today, they are full of life and blessing.

thank you brother.

 

[iamsoandso]

Perhaps I can help. I an neither a Jew or an actual messianic, but I study OT under a man who believes an understanding of it is necessary to our better understanding of Christ, which makes me in sympathy with them.

As I dig as deeply into what God wants of us on this day and try to follow that, I try to give up my personal labor in all my own way to live my life and put as much of it as I can into the care of the Lord, depending more completely on Him than I do the other six days of the week. I cook ahead, for instance. This is my spiritual goal, and I use what I do physically to reinforce this spiritual goal, being sure my doing is only to help toward the spiritual.

I have no family left that live close, but if I did it would include a sort of ceremonial Friday night supper celebration of Christ and the Lord. As it is, I light two candles and use a set prayer with each, these prayers express my goals and spirit so well I use them in place of my own words but they are not said as a rite, but as my expression. Here is a copy.

With the first candle: “ On the seventh day God completed His work He had done, and He rested on the seventh day. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.” (Sanctified it as in setting it apart)

With the second candle: “Father, continue Your loving kindness to me and my family and grant us and all Israel a good and long life. Remember us with favor and blessing and consider us with salvation and compassion, bless us with great blessing, complete our families and cause Your Glory to dwell among us. Keep far from us all manner of shame, grief, and care; and grant that peace, light, and joy abide in our home forever. For You, Yeshua, are our light. Amen.” ("all Israel" as in all those in Christ)

At sundown on Saturday night, to announce to myself that Sabbath is over and I am to resume my normal six day a week doing, I have a jar of spices. I open the jar and take a deep breath of what symbolizes, to me that I am to spend the next six days doing with God's help. I use these things as a symbol of the spiritual doing, knowing it is the spirit and not the physical acts that is important.

not to be disrespectful,,,,but in the manner of learning,,,you describe using man-made items in the worship of the almighty god(candles). i don't use any man-made images to worship my god i.e,idols gold calves ect. can you explain how this should be incorporated into our worship of god,,,"candles"???,,

 

[Zinzerio]

...In this respect I have to agree with you, I prefer to believe what I have Understood is the truth, and not what others have understood is.

In reference to try to exalt the JEW and try to make believe that people who believe in Christ will became an spiritual or adopted JEW I completely disagree with you, and more I could see for my Paul readings that that was exactly what Paul was fighting against.
He fully Understood the Jew and the Gentiles have different paths. (although He was a loyal Jew)

Now read revelacion 3:9, speaks to the ones who want to say they are jews, or pactice jew laws, without being a jew.

Please see romans 4:
11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.


13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

So this is why all humanity could be blessed in Abraham. Because He lived by faith before the law existed.

Thanks

[h=3]1 John 2:3-5[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]The Test of Knowing Him[/h][SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.