Amillennialism

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm not sure why I try but here we go....

A good place to start is the HISTORY of the Temple and the time period each of the prophets lived in...

Ezekial was during the Babylonian exile.... the below verses fulfilled when they were returned and got to build the temple again, you know the one Jesus preached in when He was 12?
You should not have even tried Ananda, When they returned form the babylonian captivity. a few things are missing for Ezekials prophesy to be true.

1. Not all Israel returned. Only the jews
2. Israel had not repented. They did not live in peace. They were ruled for foriegners, even when they were in their land. Even up till the time of Christ.
3. Ezekial said ALL ISREAL will be returned.
4. Ezekial said ALL ISrael will repent. (did not happen, has not happened yet.
5. God never put his spirit in the JEWS wher returned.

Not fulfilled. Not even close. Nice try. but you utterly failed.


what about all the other prophesies whihc say the same thing?

"According to the Book of Ezra, construction of the Second Temple was authorized by Cyrus the Great and began in 538 BCE, after the fall of the Babylonian Empire the year before. It was completed 23 years later, on the third day of Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the Great (12 March 515 BCE)"

Temple in Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What does this have to do what God fulfilling his prophesy, and returning ALL ISREAL back to their land? And putting his law in their hearts? Never happened.



If you don't see the foreshadowing in the OT prophecies and fulfillment in Jesus, neither did the Pharisees. I think I'll follow Jesus' example concerning the matter and talk to people who actually can hear and see what I'm trying to discuss.
Oh I hear you loud and clear. Your not proving anything except that your only making a mockery of OT prophesy by having it only partially fulfilled. and claiming it completely fulfilled. You can't just read part. and ignore the rest. You have to read it all. And make it completely fulfilled., You have not done this yet.

You have not proven anything, why are you in an Amillennialism thread? by the title itself you can tell you will be hard press to find people who believe as you do, why not start a Millenialism thread and post WHY your beliefs are Biblical there?
yeah, Go to any premillenial thread. Who is in there bashing us? Your saying it is ok for you and not us to discuss things?

This is a bible discussion forum. I am discussing amillenialism. You should. Your starting to sound like a puppet!


since most people what to believe in the Rapture (since people like to tie the two together) and have power/rule over other people, you'll have a lot of takers.

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”


if the Testimony of JESUS is the SPIRIT of prophecy why is it so hard for some people to allow that PROPHECY speaks of JESUS?
Yes it does. It speaks of Jesus fulfilling the prophesy of the suffering servant. The prophesy of promise of "all nations will be blessed" And will speak of the prophesy of the ocming messiah, who will rule from david's throne. As promised. David has no throne in Heaven, He had an earthly throne. And God promised David the future king would rule from DAVIDS THRONE.

God also made a promise to his chosen people. A promise he has not done away with. You can't make it that way, You can try from here to doomsday, Gods promises are still valid!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
i've seen that said about me by lots on this forum....that i'm doomed: i think God is dead. i don't speak in tongues therefore no Holy Spirit.
VW said dead...void of the spirit.

have i have EVER said that about you EG?

Daniel 9 is fulfilled, and most see that. i'm sorry you don't, but i have never said you're doomed.

who has?
I was not speaking to you Zone. I was speaking to false prophets and tongues speakers. "Oh and strangelove who has stated I am doomed"

Most people in here might think Dan 9 is fulfilled Zony, But no one I know, But you few in here, and all catholics do not. That is many many people.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Covenant Theology is beautiful, isn't it?
suddenly WE SEE JESUS everywhere!

love you ana.
good stuff.

Thats funny. I see him everywhere! Everything has been about him since gen 3: 15. And will be about him forever.

This is what I mean. What do you think comments like this prove. you think I do not see Chist?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
we will have to agree to disagree.]


sorry you talking to me? I thought you left....that normally what I do when I make a statement like the one above, but I guess that is just me....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
sorry you talking to me? I thought you left....that normally what I do when I make a statement like the one above, but I guess that is just me....

Yeah, And you kept talking. so I assumed you did not agree to disagree. so I kept responding. And??
 
Aug 25, 2011
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Oh Dear God in heaven help us to not have our head in the sand.
Help us dear precious Jesus to stand.
We need more lamia's to protect the sheep.
Oh! Thank you Jesus! For I know you weep.
For all those lost, blind, and naked.
Dear heavenly Father thank you for Your Spirit.
To indwell with all of us each and everyone.
That Praises and Believes, and Worships Your Son.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
Anyone ever heard of Penticost?
 
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AnandaHya

Guest

Thats funny. I see him everywhere! Everything has been about him since gen 3: 15. And will be about him forever.

This is what I mean. What do you think comments like this prove. you think I do not see Chist?
I don't know Zone, were you trying to prove anything? I just talking out loud and collecting historical dates personally and trying to understand the OT.

Jesus told me He fulfilled it so I take Him at His words but hey these pesky people who say bye and come back and call me names is kind of annoying, don't know how you put up with it.

you know when the disciples wrote this:

Acts 13:32-34
New King James Version (NKJV)
32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus.


then there is Red who goes around posting things that is truth mix with lies about others beliefs, those are called strawman arguments aren't they?

oh well. I think I'm just going to leave it all to Jesus and read my Bible.

now why am I demanded to "prove" anything? never remember asking them to "prove it" just asked why they believed what they did....beginning to see why but still find it illogical and unbiblical but anyways....

catch ya later,

Daniel 12

Prophecy of the End Time

1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,

Some to shame and everlasting contempt
.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

Matthew 27
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”


Revelations 20

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


now if people could understand what TODAY means they might get the whole 1000 years symbolizing this age until the coming of Christ, but I guess we can only pray that God reveals that to them. If God can't convince them, how can we mere mortals do it?

Acts 13:32-34
New King James Version (NKJV)
32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:


‘ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’[a]

34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:


‘ I will give you the sure mercies of David.’


Hebrews 4:6-8
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:


“ Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.
”[a]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.



i'm tired of ad hominem attacks. please refrain yourself and post scripture if you wish for my attention, otherwise I think I will speak with my brethren who seek to speak of God's words and will for the world.
 
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Abiding

Guest


How many verses would it take to get a refill?

 
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AnandaHya

Guest

Yeah, And you kept talking. so I assumed you did not agree to disagree. so I kept responding. And??
and I agree you have the right to disagree, therefore I am no longer addressing my words to you concerning this subject.

In addition, I would prefer to address others who would actually discuss scripture

without resorting to "that doesn't prove anything" "your just wrong" "your a puppet" like statements. most of the time I like "I don't agree and these are the reasons why and here is the scriptures or pastors or websites or books that help bring me to my current understanding of what God's message is truly about"


So Shroom, when you get your computer back I've got a few questions for you....

what makes you think Daniel 9 is about the AntiChrist when just a few verses before it was about Jesus?


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; (how long did Jesus preach? before and after cruxification? did He confirm the covenant? it never says HE BREAKS IT, where do people get that?)
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (JESUS brings an end to Sacrifice and Offerings)
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, I already showed you why I think this refers to when Babylon gets set up to whore with the world...
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.

here are the Bible verses that say that JESUS ends Sacrifice and offerings:

Hebrews 9:24-28
New King James Version (NKJV)
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.



mmmm how long was Jesus in Heaven before He appeared to Saul/Paul?

where are those numbers about 3 1/2 days and such equaling up to Jesus ministry on Earth as a Man and 3 1/2 days after His resurrection...... have to get back to you on that one....
 
Aug 12, 2010
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You should not have even tried Ananda, When they returned form the babylonian captivity. a few things are missing for Ezekials prophesy to be true.

1. Not all Israel returned. Only the jews
!
BRITISH ISRAELISM!

REFUTED:

Quote~

1. The house of Israel was in Babylon with Ezekiel—Ezek. 3 :1-15.


In verse 1 God told Ezekiel to "go speak unto the house of Israel." In verse 5 God said that he should speak "to the house of Israel" only. In verse 11 he was told to speak "to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people." In verse 15 it identifies them as those who were in Babylon with Ezekiel "that dwelt by the river Chebar"—in Babylon. But everybody knows that the Jews were in the captivity of Babylon, not the ten tribes. So the Jews in Babylon, according to Ezekiel, were the "house of Israel." Ezekiel was commanded to speak to them, but he was told to speak only to the house of Israel, those in Babylon, dwelling by the river Chebar. So it seems that there were quite a number of Jews in the house of Israel, after all, and DESTINY must be wrong about it. Moreover, Ezekiel 37 pictures the "whole house of Israel" in return from the Babylonian captivity. The statement that "in that house there are no Jews" is absurd and displays an ignorance that is appalling on the part of editors and writers of such a magazine as DESTINY.


2. The house of Israel returned from Babylon with Ezra, Zerrubbabel and Nehemiah—Ezek. 47:13. "Thus saith the Lord God: This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions."


Here Ezekiel tells them the portion of all the twelve tribes when they return. Jeremiah said that the house of Israel would return from the north country to dwell again in their land. Jer. 23:8: "But the Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land." Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, made a proclamation in Babylon to all the Jews "throughout all his kingdom" for any who were "of all his people" (God's people) to return. Ezra 1:1-3: "Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel; (he is the God) which is in Jerusalem." This proclamation was addressed to Israel. God had "stirred up the spirit of Cyrus" to make this proclamation. It fulfilled all that Jeremiah had spoken concerning the return of Israel to their land, a blanket fulfillment. If the ten tribes were not included in this proclamation, they were not of "all his people"—not God's people. They all had the opportunity to return, all Israel in Babylon, and those in the "north country"—the ten tribes —and this proves definitely that the distinction which the Anglo-Israelists attempt to make is a false distinction.


After the return to Jerusalem Ezra commanded a sin offering for every tribe of Israel, and he referred to them as "all Israel." Ezra 6 :16-17: "And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house with joy, and offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel." Why offer for "all Israel" if it was only the Jews who returned from Babylon, and not Israel at all, as Anglo-Israelites assert?
In his printed Radio Addresses, the one of May 22, 1943, the Dr. John Matthews said that "it has been admitted that Ezra and Nehemiah are Jewish books." In the same address he said that "it has also been admitted that in two or three instances Jews and Israel are the same." But DESTINY says that there are "no Jews" in the house of Israel. The Doctor and the Editor had better confer.


Since it is "admitted" that "in two or three instances" Jews and Israel were the same, we now claim the right to demand that they name these two or three instances. And if they are the same in two or three instances, they might explain how many instances Jews and Israel must be the same in order to remain the same. If they are the same a part of the time, and a part of the time they are not the same, then how may we tell when they are the same and when they are not the same? Just how many "instances" does the Bible have to say a thing to prove it to be that way?


Take another look at Ezra. Read Chap. 3:11: "And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the Lord; because he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the Lord, because the foundation of the house of the Lord was laid." If the Jews and Israel are not the same, why should these Jews who had returned from Babylon, who were not "in the house of Israel" per Anglo-Israelists —why should they be shouting for Israel, if they were not Israel ?


In the book of Ezra they are called Jews eight times and Israel forty times. In Nehemiah they are called Jews eleven times and Israel twenty two times. If these terms are not used interchangeably by Ezra and Nehemiah, how could they have used them interchangeably if they had wanted to do so? If these terms are not used interchangeably, then we have more Israel than Jews in Ezra, and the argument is reversed, for Anglo-Israelists insist, that only the Jews, not Israel, returned to Judah from Babylon. But if the terms "Jews" and "Israel" are used interchangeably, then they are identical, the same in more than "two or three instances," and their whole argument is lost. In the two lists found in Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7, the number of Israel was 12,000 and the number of Judah was 30,000—and the sin offering was made for "all Israel," for "every tribe of Israel." Why? These facts are fatal to the Anglo-Israel theory.


It is pertinent here to inquire, who returned to Palestine. The Anglo-Israelists deny that Israel returned. Only the Jews returned. Israel remained scattered and lost, to be found centuries later in the British Isles. Let us see. In 1 Chron. 9 13 we read: "So all Israel were reckoned by genealogies; and behold, they were written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah, who were carried away to Babylon for their transgress on . . . And In Jerusalem dwelt of the children of Judah, and of the children of Benjamin, and of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Let it be noted that this was after the return, and who is in Jerusalem? First, "all Israel," and they were "reckoned by genealogies," so it must have been true. Second, among them were "children of Judah" and "children of Benjamin," who were Jews, according to Anglo-Israelists. But note: "And of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Here are the very ones who the Anglo-Israelists say were "Israel"—and they were there. But they tell us only the Jews were there—not Israel at all. They are dead wrong.


In 713 B.C., during the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib, king of Assyria, invaded Judah, took all the fenced cities—2 Kings 18:3—and carried the captives to Assyria. But that is where the ten tribes were—in Assyria. So in this way both Judah and Israel were in Assyria. Later, the proclamation of Cyrus— Ezra 1:13—gave "all the opportunity to return, and all who wanted to return but were not able were given government aid.


Anyone can see what these facts do to the Anglo-Israel theory. That theory contends that Israel was "in the north country" and did not return to Palestine, that the ten tribes subsequently became lost, and never did return, but were traced to the British Isles, and now exist in the British, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic races. The passages cited show that their contention is wrong. These scriptural facts are absolutely fatal to the Anglo-Israel doctrine.

SOURCE AND CREDIT: Anglo/British-Israelism: A DETAILED REFUTATION

ALL the House of Israel AND the Jews returned.
 
Aug 12, 2010
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I was not speaking to you Zone. I was speaking to false prophets and tongues speakers. "Oh and strangelove who has stated I am doomed"
Where have I stated that?

Either quote me where I have condemned you or you will be reported.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
Thanks Doc.

this kind of popped out:

"After the return to Jerusalem Ezra commanded a sin offering for every tribe of Israel, and he referred to them as "all Israel." Ezra 6 :16-17: "And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house with joy, and offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel." Why offer for "all Israel" if it was only the Jews who returned from Babylon, and not Israel at all, as Anglo-Israelites assert?"


I wonder how many people understand the whole a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square idea? A Jew belongs to Israel but not all Israelites are Jews? If it says "children of Israel" how do they make that to say "Jews" only?
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
now I want to know these verses can be taken "literally" is David going to be literally resurrected to be King FOREVER?

Is there any other King of Kings besides JESUS who reigns FOREVER? yep I guess he would be numbered as one of the Kings of the Earth in Revelations 21, right?

Ezekiel 37

24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”’”

sounds like these passages in Revelations:

Revelations 21

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m] 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Revelation 22

1 And he showed me a pure[a] river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.


what LAND was JACOB and their Fathers promised?

Hebrews 11

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them,[c] embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.


mmm who is the Cornerstone whom the builders rejected? the FOUNDATION laid for the City of God? what City is Built and Made by GOD?

where do the saints that rose after the Resurrection of Christ NOW, TODAY dwell? Where do they REST?


Revelations 6
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.


here is the mystery, for we shall not all sleep....

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g]
55 “ O Death, where is your sting?[h]
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
 
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Feb 23, 2011
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BRITISH ISRAELISM!

REFUTED:

Quote~

1. The house of Israel was in Babylon with Ezekiel—Ezek. 3 :1-15.


In verse 1 God told Ezekiel to "go speak unto the house of Israel." In verse 5 God said that he should speak "to the house of Israel" only. In verse 11 he was told to speak "to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people." In verse 15 it identifies them as those who were in Babylon with Ezekiel "that dwelt by the river Chebar"—in Babylon. But everybody knows that the Jews were in the captivity of Babylon, not the ten tribes. So the Jews in Babylon, according to Ezekiel, were the "house of Israel." Ezekiel was commanded to speak to them, but he was told to speak only to the house of Israel, those in Babylon, dwelling by the river Chebar. So it seems that there were quite a number of Jews in the house of Israel, after all, and DESTINY must be wrong about it. Moreover, Ezekiel 37 pictures the "whole house of Israel" in return from the Babylonian captivity. The statement that "in that house there are no Jews" is absurd and displays an ignorance that is appalling on the part of editors and writers of such a magazine as DESTINY.


2. The house of Israel returned from Babylon with Ezra, Zerrubbabel and Nehemiah—Ezek. 47:13. "Thus saith the Lord God: This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions."


Here Ezekiel tells them the portion of all the twelve tribes when they return. Jeremiah said that the house of Israel would return from the north country to dwell again in their land. Jer. 23:8: "But the Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land." Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, made a proclamation in Babylon to all the Jews "throughout all his kingdom" for any who were "of all his people" (God's people) to return. Ezra 1:1-3: "Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel; (he is the God) which is in Jerusalem." This proclamation was addressed to Israel. God had "stirred up the spirit of Cyrus" to make this proclamation. It fulfilled all that Jeremiah had spoken concerning the return of Israel to their land, a blanket fulfillment. If the ten tribes were not included in this proclamation, they were not of "all his people"—not God's people. They all had the opportunity to return, all Israel in Babylon, and those in the "north country"—the ten tribes —and this proves definitely that the distinction which the Anglo-Israelists attempt to make is a false distinction.


After the return to Jerusalem Ezra commanded a sin offering for every tribe of Israel, and he referred to them as "all Israel." Ezra 6 :16-17: "And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house with joy, and offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel." Why offer for "all Israel" if it was only the Jews who returned from Babylon, and not Israel at all, as Anglo-Israelites assert?
In his printed Radio Addresses, the one of May 22, 1943, the Dr. John Matthews said that "it has been admitted that Ezra and Nehemiah are Jewish books." In the same address he said that "it has also been admitted that in two or three instances Jews and Israel are the same." But DESTINY says that there are "no Jews" in the house of Israel. The Doctor and the Editor had better confer.


Since it is "admitted" that "in two or three instances" Jews and Israel were the same, we now claim the right to demand that they name these two or three instances. And if they are the same in two or three instances, they might explain how many instances Jews and Israel must be the same in order to remain the same. If they are the same a part of the time, and a part of the time they are not the same, then how may we tell when they are the same and when they are not the same? Just how many "instances" does the Bible have to say a thing to prove it to be that way?


Take another look at Ezra. Read Chap. 3:11: "And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the Lord; because he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the Lord, because the foundation of the house of the Lord was laid." If the Jews and Israel are not the same, why should these Jews who had returned from Babylon, who were not "in the house of Israel" per Anglo-Israelists —why should they be shouting for Israel, if they were not Israel ?


In the book of Ezra they are called Jews eight times and Israel forty times. In Nehemiah they are called Jews eleven times and Israel twenty two times. If these terms are not used interchangeably by Ezra and Nehemiah, how could they have used them interchangeably if they had wanted to do so? If these terms are not used interchangeably, then we have more Israel than Jews in Ezra, and the argument is reversed, for Anglo-Israelists insist, that only the Jews, not Israel, returned to Judah from Babylon. But if the terms "Jews" and "Israel" are used interchangeably, then they are identical, the same in more than "two or three instances," and their whole argument is lost. In the two lists found in Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7, the number of Israel was 12,000 and the number of Judah was 30,000—and the sin offering was made for "all Israel," for "every tribe of Israel." Why? These facts are fatal to the Anglo-Israel theory.


It is pertinent here to inquire, who returned to Palestine. The Anglo-Israelists deny that Israel returned. Only the Jews returned. Israel remained scattered and lost, to be found centuries later in the British Isles. Let us see. In 1 Chron. 9 13 we read: "So all Israel were reckoned by genealogies; and behold, they were written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah, who were carried away to Babylon for their transgress on . . . And In Jerusalem dwelt of the children of Judah, and of the children of Benjamin, and of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Let it be noted that this was after the return, and who is in Jerusalem? First, "all Israel," and they were "reckoned by genealogies," so it must have been true. Second, among them were "children of Judah" and "children of Benjamin," who were Jews, according to Anglo-Israelists. But note: "And of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Here are the very ones who the Anglo-Israelists say were "Israel"—and they were there. But they tell us only the Jews were there—not Israel at all. They are dead wrong.


In 713 B.C., during the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib, king of Assyria, invaded Judah, took all the fenced cities—2 Kings 18:3—and carried the captives to Assyria. But that is where the ten tribes were—in Assyria. So in this way both Judah and Israel were in Assyria. Later, the proclamation of Cyrus— Ezra 1:13—gave "all the opportunity to return, and all who wanted to return but were not able were given government aid.


Anyone can see what these facts do to the Anglo-Israel theory. That theory contends that Israel was "in the north country" and did not return to Palestine, that the ten tribes subsequently became lost, and never did return, but were traced to the British Isles, and now exist in the British, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic races. The passages cited show that their contention is wrong. These scriptural facts are absolutely fatal to the Anglo-Israel doctrine.

SOURCE AND CREDIT: Anglo/British-Israelism: A DETAILED REFUTATION

ALL the House of Israel AND the Jews returned.
Yep. Simple.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
and I agree you have the right to disagree, therefore I am no longer addressing my words to you concerning this subject.

In addition, I would prefer to address others who would actually discuss scripture
That's funny. You have no desire to discuss it. Only the scripture and parts of scripture which support your view. It is called one wayism.

But thats fine. my faith in what I believe is not shaken.
 
Aug 12, 2010
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That's funny. You have no desire to discuss it. Only the scripture and parts of scripture which support your view. It is called one wayism.
Are you through with her then EG?

Anyone who logically outdebates you and its the excuses and get out clause ya?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Questions not answered!

You should not have even tried Ananda, When they returned form the babylonian captivity. a few things are missing for Ezekials prophesy to be true.

1. Not all Israel returned. Only the jews
2. Israel had not repented. They did not live in peace. They were ruled for foriegners, even when they were in their land. Even up till the time of Christ.
3. Ezekial said ALL ISREAL will be returned.
4. Ezekial said ALL ISrael will repent. (did not happen, has not happened yet.
5. God never put his spirit in the JEWS wher returned.

PROPHESIES CONCERNED JACOB AND ISREAl. WHO WERE PUNISHED FOR THEIR UNBELIEF AND SENT TO THE GENTILES AS A PUNISHMENT. (This was completely fulfilled and AD 70) THEY ALL SAY GOD WILL RESTORE THEM AFTER THEY REPENT.

Paul said in romans that jew and gentile are one under Christ. all except for romans 11. when he said gentile was grafted in, and jew was cut off. But he said when the time of the gentile was finished. jew would be grafted back in.

The time of the gentile will come to and end. And at this time (and NOT UNTIL THEN) will ALL ISREAL BE SAVED. As was said in the OT. they will returned to their land, and again made a light to the world as representatives of Christ. It is all in the passages I posted. Your failure to see this does not make it not true.

So tell me. Why would God say he would destroy a gentile nation for not serving Israel?

I am surer there are more, but this should keep you busy

 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
Are you through with her then EG?

Anyone who logically outdebates you and its the excuses and get out clause ya?
don't bother doc, he's not paying attention or he might have seen the big article you posted concerning point one and addressed the points put forth. instead he has decided to repeat the same questions and pretend no one answered any of them.



can they breathe in the sand?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
ya but my bowl is still empty :(