Amillennialism

[eternally-gratefull]

is there a point in answering someone when they don't even bother reading articles posted with BIBLE quotes explained clearly and concisely?

Clearly and concisely? You mean You mean according to your belief? I can post docruments which have bible quotes explained clearly and concisley with my belief also. But what good would it do us? I did not know bible discussion were to be used for showing what others believe, I thought they were used for us sharing our belief system.

Again, do you direct people to websites to give them the gospel. or do you even have a mind of your own?

 

[AnandaHya]

No such things as remant/. All = all, or Paul is a liar. Is paul a liar too?? see answer below Romans 9: 6, I am not calling anyone names, I leave that dubious honor to you.
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what?? this makes no sense. if who are not the seed of abraham?? again read Romans 9:6



Nope. This was not fulfilled. Zacharias knew the time had come. But isreal rejection precluded this from being fulfilled. Nice try though

gap theory, has be debunked already


Jesus CAN NOT BE THE PRINCE. THE PRINCE IS A ROMAN, HIS PEAPLE DESTOYED THE TEMPLE IN AD 70. WAS JESUS A ROMAN OR A JEW??


Read aBove, You have the wrong prince



No you are the one ignoring facts!.

1. Jesus preached at the end of the 69th week.
2. He was cut off after the 69th week was done.
3. The covenant is made AFTER the messiah is cut off not before. It is made AFTER the destruction of jerusalem and the temple
4. The prince who confirms the covenant is the one who comes from the people who destroyed the sanctuary. It CANT be jesus.

You just chose to ignore it!

You are blind to the fact this "prince" you love so much is not in Daniel 9, HE does not refer to the PRINCE. The PRINCE does not even show up, his PEOPLE destroy the temple.

JESUS CONFIRMS the Covenant.

when does the ANTICHRIST ever have a COVENANT with the world? When does it say it is BROKEN in Daniel 9?

THe antichrist DECEIVES the world and with false SIGNS and wonders leads them to worship him.

you know like calling fire down from Heaven to destroy anyone who speaks against him, arranging a fake rapture to silence anyone who actually knows the gospel of Christ and telling the others they missed the rapture bus, etc.

run? i haven't moved, for a little while I just ignored you is all.

I do that when people start upsetting me otherwise I have asthma attacks.

as for the remnant of Israel. here is the scriptures.


Romans 9

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”[c]
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”[d] 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”[e]

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”[f] 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He says also in Hosea:


“ I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”[h]
26 “ And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,

‘ You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:[j]


“ Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth.”[k]

29 And as Isaiah said before:


“ Unless the LORD of Sabaoth[l]had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

I politely request that YOU Stop telling me how I'm blind and twisting scripture, it is annoying and if you continue, I'll just ignore you again.

 

[Strangelove]

Clearly and concisely? You mean You mean according to your belief? I can post docruments which have bible quotes explained clearly and concisley with my belief also. But what good would it do us? I did not know bible discussion were to be used for showing what others believe, I thought they were used for us sharing our belief system.

Again, do you direct people to websites to give them the gospel. or do you even have a mind of your own?

What an absurd COPOUT.

British Israelism has been DEBUNKED and you cant handle it!

 

[AnandaHya]

Clearly and concisely? You mean You mean according to your belief? I can post docruments which have bible quotes explained clearly and concisley with my belief also. But what good would it do us? I did not know bible discussion were to be used for showing what others believe, I thought they were used for us sharing our belief system.

Again, do you direct people to websites to give them the gospel. or do you even have a mind of your own?

again you enjoy being offensive? or have you considered that reading what others say on the topic might more clearly explain my thoughts in words they can relate with?

Do you have a mind of your own or do you seek to know and speak and show the world God's heart, love and mind as much as you can perceive and He has revealed to you?

Do I have a mind of my own? Yes God gave it to me and I asked Him to show me His truth instead of building my own and if I have strongholds that are not His, I have asked Him to tear them down. If I seek to do things that go against His will, I have asked for Him to keep me from that sin.

If I try and speak in anger, I have no air in my lungs to voice my thoughts. It is not that I am more holy then others by not speaking out of anger, it is that I physically can't at times. If I don't calm down and pray, I've physically passed out.

If you post websites who have clearly outlined your beliefs then I would have the courtesy to read the posted documents as others have done.

What we believe to not be what we believe alone but what we as a body as a church believe as a whole under the guidance of Christ.

therefore you objection to using others words if they align with our beliefs is hollow and empty for God calls us to be of ONE mind and ONE spirit and to shine a light of Truth into the world.

What I write is nothing new. I could puts quotation marks and the beginning and quotation marks at the end and tell you that nothing I have said is original. i don't seek NEW ideas and revelations but to understand what GOD has ALREADY revealed.

timeless laws and commandments He sent forth through His angels.

Acts 7:52-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”

54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.

 

[AnandaHya]

What an absurd COPOUT.

British Israelism has been DEBUNKED and you cant handle it!

no Doc that is another way of saying. "I don't feel like reading it. give it to me in your own words."

I just don't feel up to juggling today.

i'm going to go pray and ttyl maybe.

 

[Fencepost]

thank you Fencer......do we have any green tea?

yes. <Begins serving green tea>

 

[eternally-gratefull]

again you enjoy being offensive? or have you considered that reading what others say on the topic might more clearly explain my thoughts in words they can relate with?

You mean like the words you posted above in response to my questions?

If those are how those people believe. they are dead wrong.

1. My God is not a liar.
2. My God means ALL when he says all
3. When my God says something is going to happen. It happens Exactly like he says it will.

And who is being offensive here miss? Your attitude in this whole discussion is very unchristian like!

Do you have a mind of your own or do you seek to know and speak and show the world God's heart, love and mind as much as you can perceive and He has revealed to you?

That is what I have been doing. My words. My thoughts. Not someone elses.

Do I have a mind of my own? Yes God gave it to me and I asked Him to show me His truth instead of building my own and if I have strongholds that are not His, I have asked Him to tear them down. If I seek to do things that go against His will, I have asked for Him to keep me from that sin.

well thats good. Ask him to show you more about himself. And learn who he is. It will help you understand doctrine better.

If I try and speak in anger, I have no air in my lungs to voice my thoughts. It is not that I am more holy then others by not speaking out of anger, it is that I physically can't at times. If I don't calm down and pray, I've physically passed out.

If you post websites who have clearly outlined your beliefs then I would have the courtesy to read the posted documents as others have done.

I have no desire to show what others believe. I am here to discuss scripture. And share my beliefs. Not discuss what others say my beliefs are. or what others say your beliefs are. Do you want to discuss the word of God or not?

What we believe to not be what we believe alone but what we as a body as a church believe as a whole under the guidance of Christ.

As does my body under the guidance of Christ. Can we both be right? You think I am the only one to believe this way? As I have said before. You few in here are the ONLY non catholics I know who believe the way you do. And I have know thousands of Christians in my lifetime. So why even uses these types of things to prove your point. We both can't use them. so why don't we stick to scripture?

therefore you objection to using others words if they align with our beliefs is hollow and empty for God calls us to be of ONE mind and ONE spirit and to shine a light of Truth into the world.

You assume your right. Again circular reasoning does not make your belief true. Now your just using ad hominem. And you claim I do not want to discuss scripture?

What I write is nothing new. I could puts quotation marks and the beginning and quotation marks at the end and tell you that nothing I have said is original. i don't seek NEW ideas and revelations but to understand what GOD has ALREADY revealed.

You think I don't? I do not just listen to what people say. I ask questions. Like I asked you. I never got answered which would allow the word of God to not contradict. Make God out to be a liar and not in control. and which make no sense to anyone. So should I just drop everything and believe with you just because?

timeless laws and commandments He sent forth through His angels.

Acts 7:52-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”

54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.[/quote]
what does that have to do with this conversation?

do you want to discuss scripture? or continue to make non sensical. unsubstantiated, circular reasoning remarks?

 

[AnandaHya]

as for the remnant of Israel. here is the scriptures.


Romans 9

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, &#8220;In Isaac your seed shall be called.&#8221; 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: &#8220;At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.&#8221;[c]
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, &#8220;The older shall serve the younger.&#8221;[d] 13 As it is written, &#8220;Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.&#8221;[e]

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, &#8220;I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.&#8221;[f] 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, &#8220;For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.&#8221;[g] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, &#8220;Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?&#8221; 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, &#8220;Why have you made me like this?&#8221; 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He says also in Hosea:


&#8220; I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.&#8221;[h]
26 &#8220; And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,

&#8216; You are not My people,&#8217;
There they shall be called sons of the living God.&#8221;

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:[j]


&#8220; Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth.&#8221;[k]

29 And as Isaiah said before:


&#8220; Unless the LORD of Sabaoth[l]had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.&#8221;

I politely request that YOU Stop telling me how I'm blind and twisting scripture, it is annoying and if you continue, I'll just ignore you again.

example in RED, comments in green

1. My God is not a liar.
2. My God means ALL when he says all (see above scripture Romans 9:6 shows that ALL is not ALL as you would like to say God says, but GOD does not say. YOU do)
3. When my God says something is going to happen. It happens Exactly like he says it will.

And who is being offensive here miss? Your attitude in this whole discussion is very unchristian like!

 

[AnandaHya]

this is NOT an example of Ad hominem because I do NOT seek to attack you but to get you to CEASE making this about me and address scripture. but you instead of addressing the post that HAS scripture, you address the one that does not.....


Quote :
therefore you objection to using others words if they align with our beliefs is hollow and empty for God calls us to be of ONE mind and ONE spirit and to shine a light of Truth into the world.

EG's response: You assume your right. Again circular reasoning does not make your belief true. Now your just using ad hominem. And you claim I do not want to discuss scripture?

1. I do not assume I am right, you do.

2. circular reason? what about the scriptures posted above?

3. that is not ad hominem, I'm not attacking you. I am saying that referring to others words are often used in debating

4. no you don't you have instead wasted more time attacking me and my logic instead of talking about scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

example in RED, comments in green

Silly girl.

Did you even read my question? This is what happens when you do not read a question, but just glance at it, and assume you know what is being asked.

Romans 9 is about jew and gentile being one. The remnant would be the jews who are saved as we are. But that is not what Paul is talking about in romans 11

Romans 11 is about jew being our enemy, even though they are still loved as elect. About israel being blind (the remnant are not blind, they see just as we do) and gentile having been grafted in. about Israel being grafted out, and after the time of the gentile is complete. them being grafted back in as ALL OF THEM (NOT JUST A REMNANT) ARE SAVED. in all these things, he has Separated the two.

You don't use a passage of scripture which I used in my argument against itself.

I asked why he said jew and gentile in romans was one (like in chapter 9), then he said they were separate in chapter 11. And you used chapter 9 to prove your point.

Yes. that is AD HOMINEM.

You have not addressed the substance of the argument.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this is NOT an example of Ad hominem because I do NOT seek to attack you but to get you to CEASE making this about me and address scripture. but you instead of addressing the post that HAS scripture, you address the one that does not.....

Adress scripture? What you way?? You say you do not make an ad hominem attack, yet your only answer is I am mixing prophesies?? What else do you call it?? It is NOT DISCUSSING

Quote :
therefore you objection to using others words if they align with our beliefs is hollow and empty for God calls us to be of ONE mind and ONE spirit and to shine a light of Truth into the world.

EG's response: You assume your right. Again circular reasoning does not make your belief true. Now your just using ad hominem. And you claim I do not want to discuss scripture?

1. I do not assume I am right, you do.

I don't assume anything. I know your wrong, and you have not shown otherwise.

2. circular reason? what about the scriptures posted above?

what about them? You use romans 9 to explain romans 11 when context of romans 9 is not even close to context of romans 11??

3. that is not ad hominem, I'm not attacking you. I am saying that referring to others words are often used in debating

Saying I am mixing prophesies up with no explanation is attack.

4. no you don't you have instead wasted more time attacking me and my logic instead of talking about scripture.

And I will keep attacking your logic until you answer those questions in a way that does not make God out to be a liar, and not in control of anything, and makes God who God says he is.

 

[Strangelove]

no Doc that is another way of saying. "I don't feel like reading it. give it to me in your own words."

I just don't feel up to juggling today.

i'm going to go pray and ttyl maybe.

Ok look...

Fleshy Israel was in babylon with Ezekiel:

(Ezekiel 3:1) Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel.

Ok? Have we established that fact? These are Jews aswell. "Jews" were in the House of Israel at that time.

Then the house of Israel returned from Babylon with Ezra and also Zerrubbabel and Nehemiah.

(Jeremiah 23:8) But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Alright EG, are you with me so far?

Israel were in babylon and then they went back to palestine. The ten tribes had to have been part of the gang that went back to Judah. If they didnt then they were not Gods people.

(Ezra 1:3) Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

Are you telling me the ten tribes are not part of Gods people?

Do you want to tell us that it was only the Jews who returned from captivity?

(Ezra 6:16) And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house of God with joy,
(Ezra 6:17) And offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel.

All Israel?

Looks like you have a problem here EG. Cant be ALL ISRAEL if ten tribes were missing can it?

Just admit it....ancient Jews and Israel are the SAME after the captivity. The two terms were INTERCHANGEABLE. Thats fulfillment of Eze 37!

How about this next verse? Is this just referring to "Jews"?

(Ezra 3:11) And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the LORD; because he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the LORD, because the foundation of the house of the LORD was laid.

Huh? Jews rooting for ISRAEL? Why would they be doing this if they arn't PART OF ISRAEL?

Heres something interesting:

(1 Chronicles 9:1) So all Israel were reckoned by genealogies; and, behold, they were written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah, who were carried away to Babylon for their transgression.
(1 Chronicles 9:2) Now the first inhabitants that dwelt in their possessions in their cities were, the Israelites, the priests, Levites, and the Nethinims.
(1 Chronicles 9:3) And in Jerusalem dwelt of the children of Judah, and of the children of Benjamin, and of the children of Ephraim, and Manasseh;

AFTER the captivity this is. And theres Ephraim and Menassah...ISRAEL. Together with Judah and all the rest of them.

But you say only the Judhans came back?

Oh and just for kicks:

(Matthew 10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(Matthew 10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ok now thats not the words of any website...

So Ananda...you will obviously have to repost that coz EG is still on a "Doc Strike" AND I GIVE YOU FULL PERMISSION TO SAY THIS IS YOUR OWN WORDS.

So lets see him answer and say Israel didnt come back from the captivity.

 

[AnandaHya]

Silly girl.

Did you even read my question? This is what happens when you do not read a question, but just glance at it, and assume you know what is being asked.

Romans 9 is about jew and gentile being one. The remnant would be the jews who are saved as we are. But that is not what Paul is talking about in romans 11

Romans 11 is about jew being our enemy, even though they are still loved as elect. About israel being blind (the remnant are not blind, they see just as we do) and gentile having been grafted in. about Israel being grafted out, and after the time of the gentile is complete. them being grafted back in as ALL OF THEM (NOT JUST A REMNANT) ARE SAVED. in all these things, he has Separated the two.

You don't use a passage of scripture which I used in my argument against itself.

I asked why he said jew and gentile in romans was one (like in chapter 9), then he said they were separate in chapter 11. And you used chapter 9 to prove your point.

Yes. that is AD HOMINEM.

You have not addressed the substance of the argument.

and you think that Chapter 9 and 11 of the SAME book do not answer each other. Are there NO natural branches grafted back to the tree, EG?

it does NOT say ALL of them, it says those who DO NOT REMAIN BLIND. Chapter 9 shows that Paul is talking about the REMNANT.

Romans 11
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

it refers to the remnant who Paul tells us about in Romans 9 but you chose to ignore and make it say something else. "IF THEY DO NOT CONTINUE IN UNBELIEF"

therefore he can NOT be referring to the BLIND in Chapter 11 any more then he was in Chapter 9.

I don't appreciate being called a silly girl. you are very condescending.

I do not say that GOD lies, I say you do not understand HIS words, but you are too prideful to actually pray about it and instead would rather insult me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and you think that Chapter 9 and 11 of the SAME book do not answer each other. Are there NO natural branches grafted back to the tree, EG?

Does romans 9 say ALL ISREAL will be grafted in? Does it talk about a future state of people? NO. It talks about the present state. Jew and gentile are one, Context, Tense, and language does not fit. why do you want to force it to fit??

it does NOT say ALL of them, it says those who DO NOT REMAIN BLIND. Chapter 9 shows that Paul is talking about the REMNANT.

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so ALL Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:


&#8220; The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.&#8221;[h]

There. do you need some reading glasses?? Last I looked up. ALL MEANS ALL

Romans 11
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Who are they? According to romans 9 jew and gentile are one. so who are they?? since you demand rom 9 and rom 11 agree in context??

it refers to the remnant who Paul tells us about in Romans 9 but you chose to ignore and make it say something else. "IF THEY DO NOT CONTINUE IN UNBELIEF"

That is NOT THE VERSE I AM TALKING ABOUT. YOU KEEP SKIPPING VERSES 25 - 26, which comes AFTER the verse your using. why is this? Because you can't answer??

therefore he can NOT be referring to the BLIND in Chapter 11 any more then he was in Chapter 9.

So he is not talking about the blind? yet he says they ARE BLIND. Do you know what future tense means ananda?

hey also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

They are in unbelief. Thus THEY are blind.

do you want to continue to say they are not??

I don't appreciate being called a silly girl. you are very condescending.

How else am I supposed to respond when you do silly stuff like that? Or is it just from ignorance because your reading the passage with blind eyes? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. maybe I should not have?

[/quote]I do not say that GOD lies, I say you do not understand HIS words, but you are too prideful to actually pray about it and instead would rather insult me.[/quote]God said ALL Isreal WOULD repent (he never said might) , and HE WOULD (he never said might) return them to their land, and they WOULD live in peace after he returns them from the gentile nations who God used to punish them for their sin.

You state he offered and they rejected.

Thus you say God lied when he said they WOULD, and he WOULD.


You saying your not calling God a liar, and the facts do not add up. I am trying to get you to see the fallacy in your arguments. And why I can't believe as you do. That is what discussing scripture is all about.

 

[Strangelove]

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so ALL Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:


“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]

There. do you need some reading glasses?? Last I looked up. ALL MEANS ALL

So who is this prophecy for?

The jews or Israel?

 

[Strangelove]

I dont think God really cares much about the ancient house of Israel.

(Psa 78:67) Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:
(Psa 78:68) But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.

Doesnt look like Ephraim exists anymore.

(Isa 7:5) Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying,
(Isa 7:6) Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal:
(Isa 7:7) Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.
(Isa 7:8) For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

Seems they've been utterly taken away...

(Hos 1:4) And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
(Hos 1:5) And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
(Hos 1:6) And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
(Hos 1:7) But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Looks like they unified when they came up out of the land, thats probably why there is no ancient House of Israel anymore...

(Hos 1:11) Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Yup...definately already unified, look at this...its the return from babylon...

(Eze 37:16) Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
(Eze 37:17) And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
(Eze 37:18) And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
(Eze 37:19) Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
(Eze 37:20) And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
(Eze 37:21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
(Eze 37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

 

[AnandaHya]

2 Corinthians 3

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech&#8212; 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4

The Light of Christ&#8217;s Gospel

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man&#8217;s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus&#8217; sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
...

16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

how then can one lie to themselves and say God promised an eternal kingdom to a nation and that it really means a temporal land that is foretold to be destroyed with the second coming of Christ and the NEW Earth and the NEW Jereuselam?

 

[AnandaHya]

you misread Romans 9 EG.

ONE? as in ONE in Christ as in

Jews are NATURAL branches and Gentiles are Wild branches, both grafted to the root of David, JESUS Christ.

until the Jews turn towards Jesus they are blind and will NOT be grafted back in.

Paul refers to HIMSELF and writes so that gentiles will not get arrogant.

Stop accusing me of calling God a liar. If I call anyone a liar it would be YOU not God. Why do you continue to sprinkle all your post with ad hominem attacks against me?

why can't you simply state you don't agree instead of trying to call me, stupid, blind, silly, blasphamous, etc?

 

[AnandaHya]

fulfillment of promise about the nonspiritual land of Canaan to Abraham:

Psalm 105
8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
11 Saying, &#8220;To you I will give the land of Canaan
As the allotment of your inheritance,&#8221;

42 For He remembered His holy promise,
And Abraham His servant.
43 He brought out His people with joy,
His chosen ones with gladness.
44 He gave them the lands of the Gentiles,
And they inherited the labor of the nations,
45 That they might observe His statutes
And keep His laws.

Praise the LORD!

now the true question is WHAT exactly is the EVERLASTING Covenant that God made with Abraham. It can't be about this temporal CANAAN that will be Destroyed, let us look at the VERSES from the BIBLE about it....

Genesis 17

The Sign of the Covenant

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, &#8220;I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.&#8221; 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 &#8220;As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.&#8221;


9 And God said to Abraham: &#8220;As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. 13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.&#8221;

so what is the covenant? to be their GOD forever.

why is there an ALSO? what is this EVERLASTING Canaan God speaks about?

Is verse 10 also part of the EVERLASTING Covenant? Is Circumsion of the FLESH or of the SPIRIT? Is Canaan of the Earth or of Heaven?

 

[AnandaHya]

Canaan that GOD has ETERNALLY PROMISED for His people

Hebrews 11

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them,[c] embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.