Amillennialism

[zone]

Why not? Daniel 9 was not about me. IT WAS ABOUT DANIELS PEOPLE!!

Daniel 9Daniel’s Prayer for the People

1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans— 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the LORD through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Here is the CONTEXT ZONE. The 70 year punishment spoken of in Jeremiah was at its end. Daniel KNEW THIS!!


3 Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. 4 And I prayed to the LORD my God, and made confession, and said, “O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5WE have sinned and committed iniquity, WE have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have WE heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to US shame of face, as it is this day—to the MEN OF JUDAH, to the INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM and ALL ISREAL, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.
8 “O Lord, to US belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because WE have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though WE have rebelled against Him. 10WE have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, ALL ISRAEL has transgress your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on US , because WE have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon US; yet WE have not made our prayer before the LORD our God, that WE might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the LORD has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the LORD our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though WE have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—WE have sinned, WE have done wickedly!
16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Where do WE have anything to do with ME Zone?

I was not promised a name
I was not promised a city
I was not promised a country
I was not given a law that said I will be driven from my land and my sanctuary destroyed if I do not heed the law of moses.

So why is my salvation in jeopardy if danile 9 was not fulfilled? DANIEL IS PRAYING FOR HIS PEOPLE. NOT ABOUT THE WORLD. AND HE IS NOT PRAYING ABOUT THE SALVATION OF ANYONE.

Was Daniel in Sin zone? Did he reject the law? did he disobay Gods commands? Yet daniel said WE.. Why?? He was talking about HIS NATION.

What is the church? The church is jew and gentile right? The body of Christ and ALL WHO ARE SAVED. Was Daniel praying for the world? Was he praying for his salvation? For the salvation of the gentiles who had taken him hostage? Or any other gentiles in the world??

if he was, he was praying about the church. If not, he was praying about HIS PEOPLE.


This is salvation. I am not discussing salvation. Salvation is NOT CONTEXT.

No. What I read in the 4 gospels is that Daniels people are still under sin and disbelief. The very thing Daniel prayed for is still happening. It has not stopped.

AMEN!

But this has nothing to do with Daniel 9. or Gods promises to the children of Abraham Issac and jacob. or dispensationalism. or ammillenialism. or any other doctrine.

This is because of the promised redeemer.

The church did not exist before pentecost. So have no clue what your saying.

No, Daniel was praying for his people. who were at the end of the 70 year punishment as prophesied by Jeremiah. And daniel knew it. So he prayed for mercy on his people, his land, and Gods temple.

This did not have to happen for Christ to return. He did not need a temple. or the partial return of Israel for this to happen.


The old covenant never saved anyone. Christ fulfilled the moral aspect of the Old covenant and what it stood for. He did not take away the land and promise of blessing aspect of this covenant (lev 26) Israel was promised these things LONG BEFORE CHRIST CAME. they could not have been given these promises if Christ was a prerequisite.


I have no clue what your talking about here. The OT prophesied the gentiles would be saved also. The churhc was offered to Isreal (to be in charge and be Gods representative) they rejected it. so it was given to the gentiles. And is still in gentile hands today.

I agree. But we are not talking about salvation here. YOU ARE< BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO SEE WHAT I BELIEVE>




Daniel was not talking about induviduals. He was praying for his nation. Thus this comment does not have a thing to do with Daniel. why do you keep saying it does?

Was daniel in sin? Was he not obaying the mosaic law? did not God bless him because of this? He was NOT talking about induviduals zone. Your trying to force him to. but you can't. CONTEXT DOES NOT ALLOW IT



Yep. we agree. so whats your point?


If I was talking about salvation. You would probably be right. BUT I AM NOT> WHY DO YOU MAKE THIS A SALVIC ISSUE> ITS NOT. NEVER WAS!!



Yep I agree. again what is your point??? did the OLD covenant save ANYONE???

As long as your making it a salvation issue (like SOME dispensationalists do) We can't. because we are not even on the same page! And you have utterly no clue what it is I believe and this is why we can't discuss this issue!

thank you for your detailed reply EG.
there's just a chasm between us regarding what we see in scripture, i don't even know what to say.

all the best
zone.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

It just makes so much sense though Red. It's beautiful.

Don't worry about the Red one. He will likely always despise me far worse than you, even though you've correctly and copiously challenged his feeble indoctrinated beliefs. Prepare for an onslaught of vitriol and hatred that is quite personal. But remember... He hates me most. I feel so special.

 

[Muskokaman]

hahaha shroom.
too funny bud.

ps:
Jesus is Deity bud. don't delay on this one.

plus: put down the scofield bible...now put your hands in air....KEEP 'EM UP where i can see 'em.....now....slide that thing over here....easy....easy.....GOT IT.

there. done.

but another scofield bad bible bites the bust (wanted to continue the alliteration)


now may i suggest the ESV Study Bible?
Covenant, Christo-centric, lovely.

comes in several colors, paperback or leather.

give some to your friends, and your enemies.
love zone.

If you were laughing as hard as I am after reading this (your words make me giddy Tee hee) you would be runnig to the nearest outhouse because you couldn't hold it. Gotta go quick!!!
ROFL

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

thank you for your detailed reply EG.
there's just a chasm between us regarding what we see in scripture, i don't even know what to say.

all the best
zone.

Hi, Zonerifficusamundo!

I've even given much thought and study to the context of Daniel referring to the Maccabbean Revolt. If you tear into it, it fits exactly. That would most certainly preclude ANY hint of truth in Chiliasm and, especially, Dispukesationism.

 

[shroom2]

How did I miss this???

hahaha shroom.
too funny bud.

ps:
Jesus is Deity bud. don't delay on this one.

No, he isn't. God is God, Jesus Christ is the son of God, the second Adam.

plus: put down the scofield bible...now put your hands in air....KEEP 'EM UP where i can see 'em.....now....slide that thing over here....easy....easy.....GOT IT.

there. done.

but another scofield bad bible bites the bust (wanted to continue the alliteration)


now may i suggest the ESV Study Bible?
Covenant, Christo-centric, lovely.

comes in several colors, paperback or leather.

give some to your friends, and your enemies.
love zone.

Cute, zone.
Actually I use KJV mostly. The ESV isn't bad. Never even looked at a Scofield (that I can remember).

 

[zone]

Hi, Zonerifficusamundo!

I've even given much thought and study to the context of Daniel referring to the Maccabbean Revolt. If you tear into it, it fits exactly. That would most certainly preclude ANY hint of truth in Chiliasm and, especially, Dispukesationism.

hi PPPPPPPSter!
ya. and old Josephus is pretty detailed re 70AD what with all the killing and blood flowing and gold getting melted and stuff.

everything Jesus says about the end is angels/reapers, bundles, burning, wailing, end of the world judgment and stuff. no 1,000 years.

the dispies are making less and less sense.
need a translator!

oh well.
love to ya
zoneth

Dispukesationism. hehehehe

 

[zone]

How did I miss this???
No, he isn't. God is God, Jesus Christ is the son of God, the second Adam.

Cute, zone.
Actually I use KJV mostly. The ESV isn't bad. Never even looked at a Scofield (that I can remember).

tsk.
mkay....well whatever glossy xtain bookstore thingees you've got stuffed into the wall, you know where the can is.
don't make me come and get 'em.
love zonest

 

[Red33]

Don't worry about the Red one. He will likely always despise me far worse than you, even though you've correctly and copiously challenged his feeble indoctrinated beliefs. Prepare for an onslaught of vitriol and hatred that is quite personal. But remember... He hates me most. I feel so special.

Swine can be lovable you know, but that just hasn't happened with you and how I wonder why that is in my feeble indoctrinated mind.

 

[Red33]

(Revelation 2:10) Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

(John 16:33) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

(Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Are you ready Red?

I am.

If I'm deceived....I'll get ruptured before I have tribulations.

If you are deceived......your professed faith in Christ is gonna EVAPORATE.

None of these tribulations refer to the great tribulation that is coming upon the earth because they do not refer to a specific restricted event of tribulation that neither before or after has ever taken place. This specific tribulation comes from God and not from the world or its evil system.

Mt 24:21 For then shall (future tense, indicative mood) be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mk 13 :24 But in those days, after that tribulation (specific) , the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Swine can be lovable you know, but that just hasn't happened with you and how I wonder why that is in my feeble indoctrinated mind.

Perhaps the regenerative affects of salvation would help you with your lack of love...

 

[shroom2]

tsk.
mkay....well whatever glossy xtain bookstore thingees you've got stuffed into the wall, you know where the can is.
don't make me come and get 'em.
love zonest

No EO icons in our house, zone.

 

[Red33]

Perhaps the regenerative affects of salvation would help you with your lack of love...

Would you like to say the same thing in a more direct manner? Perhaps there are others that would get some weird kind of pleasure and satifaction with your direct approach that no doubt would come from a heart filled with the unconditional love of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The thing is....you are dangerously close to HAGEE et al who believe the 'jews' are gonna get saved no matter what.

Well Hagee would be wrong. It is not "no matter what" It is because they repented. Just like I did when I came to Christ. Just like you (at leasdt I hope you did I don't know ) did when you were saved. Salvation is the same from adam until today, and will be the same until this world is gone and the last judgment when there will be no more need of salvation. all eternal fates are sealed.

But of course you have to TWIST EVERYTHING EVERYONE SAYS.

I am literally getting quite sick of your refusal to see what I believe. Is your pride that thick??

Keep on continuing to PROVE you have utterly no clue what I believe.

Any jewish person listening to you would be quite indifferent about coming to Jesus NOW cuz they got this Plan B salvation coming to them.

Of course they would, they are still in rejection. Thats why they have not been returned to their land

Its a salvation issue bud.

No its not. And your not going to force it to be one. It might be for others. But it is not for me. No matter how much you so badly want it to be.

I'm so glad I didnt meet anyone like you when I first became interested in Jesus.

You still don't even know what I believe. so you still don't know anyone like me!

I have met many like you though. Blind. Think they know everything. Continues to refuse to listen to what anyone says. Continues to say they believe something they do not, nor have ever believed. even when they have been proven wrong. It is called being churched. For a man who claims he has never set foot in a church (A sin by the way) You sure are very churched!

And don't give me this "I meet with people" stuff. If you are meeting in a gathering which is for Christ, IT IS CALLED CHURCH!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if you dount know who Israel is...how do you know the prophecies concerning them havn't already been fulfilled?

because the earth is still here, as is the land of canaan. Thus the promise and covenant still stand.

Are isreal in their land today living in peace?

If they are, they have repented. if not. they are still in sin, and suffering the punishment of lev 26

I don't need to know who they are. I know they are not in their land in peace yet. so they are still in rejection of lev 26

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOLZ! Vut you have no problem seperating the 69th week thousands of years from the 70th?

Your too much man.

No I don.t especially when all the stuff gabriel said would happen after the 69th week could not possibly have taken place in 7 years.

The church was a mystery. No one knew. even satan, God kept it that way for a reason.
Try studying the OT for a chance with your blinders off. You will see how amazing God kept his secret. and used this to have the very one who called him a God of hate and unloving to prove what a liar he was. Why do you think God kept the idenity of the messiah and suffering servant hidden. so NO ONE knew they were one and the same?

Do you think satan would have allowed Christ to be crucified knowing it was the very act that proved satan to be a liar??

so does it suprise me when God left things hidden, like this. so no one would get it? (Even his disciples did not GET IT) No

you still don't GET IT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Huh?

This has nothing to do with you?

to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Where do WE have anything to do with ME Zone?

I was not promised a name
I was not promised a city
I was not promised a country
I was not given a law that said I will be driven from my land and my sanctuary destroyed if I do not heed the law of moses.

Nothing of what you posted has to do with me. It has to do with DANIELS PEOPLE

Has all prophesy been fulfilled?? Don't we have some future events to go through?? which has been prophesied?? I guess prophesy has not yet been sealed up then has it??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You dont want it to be coz that could mean you are horribly horribly WRONG in the worst possible way.

And you are.

lol. Your just laughable.

Why do you wish to force this to mean salvation?

Was adam saved differently that you?? If he was. then we are both wrong!

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Would you like to say the same thing in a more direct manner? Perhaps there are others that would get some weird kind of pleasure and satifaction with your direct approach that no doubt would come from a heart filled with the unconditional love of God.

Naaaa. Just giggin' you 'cuz you're so pouty and cranky. I have no malice or judgement in my heart for you personally. I despise some of your beliefs because of what those doctrines have done to the Church; and I get aggravated with your self-righteous vitriol, etc. at times. But it's not personal for me. Only for you. I'm unaffected by your hatred for me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

thank you for your detailed reply EG.
there's just a chasm between us regarding what we see in scripture, i don't even know what to say.

all the best
zone.

as long as you got this. If you don't understand this. especially the highlighted parts. you do not know what I believe. And you would also see we would be fighting the same people who are teaching a lie. Our difference is time. thats all. we have the same gospel. There are others who teach a difference based on different gospels for each time period. this is a lie from hell

No it is not zone, this is just crazy talk. And what good is this going to do? I believe your belief comes from Catholicism. Does that help our conversation any by saying where your beliefe comes from? It does not help us at all.

Many dispensations believe that in each dispensation there was a different way God dealt with mankind. You had to obey this way in order to be saved. They also believe that during the 7 years reign. Israel falls under law. and this is how they are saved (the same way they were saved before Christ) I have read all these books and all these authors and reject them as false. This is what your fighting. And I will fight it right along side you. But this is NOT WHAT I BELIEVE.

Adam was saved the same way I was (faith) as was Noah, Abraham, Moses, All the prophets. All the apostles. and every man woman and child who will ever spend eternity with me.

Dispensationalism for me is like a history book. When I read history. it is ALWAYS broken down in sections. how things have changed, so you can better understand what is going on. The difference between world history and biblical history is it does not stop there. God always prophesied future events. This is the ONLY ASPECT WE DIFFER. I see a 1007 year period where you do not.

SALVATION OF ANY PERSON IS NEVER IN QUESTION. That is why this argument is quite frankly stupid. Yet some people seem to think I am evil because I believe in a 1007 literal future event. And you do not.

 

[Red33]

(Revelation 2:10) Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

(John 16:33) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

(Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Are you ready Red?

I am.

If I'm deceived....I'll get ruptured before I have tribulations.

If you are deceived......your professed faith in Christ is gonna EVAPORATE.

Christ is coming for His church before any great tribulation comes upon the earth. That is the mercy and goodness of God that has been extended to the church as a promise from God. That promise can not be altered or taken from us with your 'amillennial view' and any of the contrived intellectualism that accompanies that view. Zone is dead wrong and all her articles can not alter that which has come forth from the mouth of God. The rapture of the church and the Second Coming of Christ are two separate events. One takes the church away and the other brings the church back to the earth.

There is absolutely no chance of this not happening and won't you be surprised when it does. Zone won't be able to intellectualize and whip out her articles from all these great men she admires to give an explanation because none can be given. There is no fear, only love, hope, faith and expectation. With that we can comfort one another as we look for the mercy of the Lord and wait for His coming in the clouds of the air where the dead in Christ shall rise first and those that remain alive will be caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Christ ascended and so shall we before any great tribulation comes to the earth.