Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[eternally-gratefull]

Mr. SoandSo....Josephus documented what he witnessed....his writings are not to be viewed to support or counter a certain eschatological view but rather what actually happened in 70 AD and his writings certainly refute it was a "walk in the park"

I do not need to be told anything by anybody who promotes any eschatology, I have access to many first hand primary sources and the writings of later historians who have analyzed the writings of ancient historians

The scripture supports orthodox preterism....Jesus states clearly in the Olivet Discourse......"no stone shall be left here upon another" "this generation shall not pass"

Revelations...."shortly" "soon" "time is at hand"

And if the destruction of Jerusalem had already happened when John was writing the book of Revelations .....why was he silent on such a momentous historical event.

Tell me how does one measure a temple that is destroyed?

Sis, if your going to quote me, at least quote me in context

I stated it was a “walk in the park” as compaired with the wars in the 19th century.

When you just quote “walk in the park” you are taking me out of context, and not being truthful.

 

[Guojing]

Well the majority of disy’s believe salvation has always been by the means of grace. Not what you are preaching, which is duel covenant theology

It is people like you which give us a bad name, and why the preterist is so fired up against us, because they do not understand us at all.

Covenant Theologists are the ones that believed salvation has always been by grace. But since you won't change your mind anyway, we will leave it as that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Covenant Theologists are the ones that believed salvation has always been by grace. But since you won't change your mind anyway, we will leave it as that.

Wrong

Dual covenant theology states that the jews were saved by following the law. And the church is saved by grace.

It is why preterists are so against dispensational teaching, they believe we teach two gospels. Which is false.

 

[crossnote]

If you don't regard that as faith + works for salvation, then okay, its a matter of semantics.

I don't consider fruit of the Spirit as works. The former (fruit) is something God works in His children, whereas the latter (works) are self efforts at trying to gain God's favor. It's not semantics at all.

 

[azamzimtoti]

You need to read the whole passage man

The disciples asked

1. When will these things (the destruction of the temple) take place.
2. What will be the sign of your comming and
3. The end of the age.

Jesus answered all those question. THE ONLY answers jesus gave concerning AD 70 was the answer concerning “WHEN” not one stone will be left standing.

The rest (the birth pangs, the wars and rumers of wars. The great tribulation, the abomination of desolation. The fact that tribulation will be so great all flesh will die if Christ does not return.

These answer the last two questions. And have YET to be fulfilled!

Part of that is the last war. Where jerusalem will be surrounded by armies and Jesus will destgroy them upon his return.

This is not the same as what happened in 70 AD

You are reading Matt 24 through your dispensational specs.

(Mat 24:33 “So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! )

(Mat 24:34 “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. )

So either all these things came upon that generation or none of them did, there is no valid way to split all these things into some in this generation and some in that (future) generation.

 

[Guojing]

I don't consider fruit of the Spirit as works. The former (fruit) is something God works in His children, whereas the latter (works) are self efforts at trying to gain God's favor. It's not semantics at all.

I would think most people would regard being willing to starve to death due to not being able to buy food, as more than just having faith in Jesus's DBR.

But I have realized that there are people here who are fond of including lots of different "works" as part of faith. That is how they are able to keep interpreting that its faith alone and not works that saves, throughout all the dispensations.

Okay then, we will leave it as that.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Mr. SoandSo....Josephus documented what he witnessed....his writings are not to be viewed to support or counter a certain eschatological view but rather what actually happened in 70 AD . . . . . .

Exactly.

 

[iamsoandso]

Exactly.

During the first Jewish revolt ad66-70 what do you exactly think took place in history.

(A) the Jews worshiped Romes image and Caesar as God and bought and sold with his money,
or
(B) they refused to worship Rome, Caesar or any pagan image as God ,minted their own coins and died to the uttermost to keep Rome from setting up an image in the temple of God and polluting it,, better known as first Jewish revolt.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Who do you think they worshiped?

(John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. )

 

[iamsoandso]

Who do you think they worshiped?

(John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. )

lol, your avoiding what we are discussing about the historical evidence in post #1288. It's not that difficult they either worshiped the image,took the mark and fulfilled Rev. 13:16+ or they revolted instead. Here's Josephus Wars 2 it should help,,, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html

 

[crossnote]

I would think most people would regard being willing to starve to death due to not being able to buy food, as more than just having faith in Jesus's DBR.

But I have realized that there are people here who are fond of including lots of different "works" as part of faith. That is how they are able to keep interpreting that its faith alone and not works that saves, throughout all the dispensations.

Okay then, we will leave it as that.

Explain this...
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
(Rom 4:6)

 

[UnderGrace]

During the first Jewish revolt ad66-70 what do you exactly think took place in history.

(A) the Jews worshiped Romes image and Caesar as God and bought and sold with his money,
or
(B) they refused to worship Rome, Caesar or any pagan image as God ,minted their own coins and died to the uttermost to keep Rome from setting up an image in the temple of God and polluting it,, better known as first Jewish revolt.

Oversimplification of the times ...the Jewish people were not of one mind at the time, there were various factions

 

[Guojing]

Explain this...
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
(Rom 4:6)

David had to do works along with his faith, like everyone else under law. And yet, those animal sacrifices could not save his son from his sin of adultery, although his own life was spared.

He calls all of us blessed under the grace dispensation, where because of Jesus, we no longer need to do works and yet we are imputed with his righteousness no matter what sin we did, a blessing he did not receive.

 

[iamsoandso]

Oversimplification of the times ...the Jewish people were not of one mind at the time, there were various factions

lol, Take for instance John 8:44. To understand it see John 8:31 because he was speaking to "Jews who believed" when he told them they were of their father the devil. Now in wars 2 18.1 Pella is sacked by the Jews http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html but in the flight to Pella it was the Ebionites who fled to Pella and the Nazarene Sect who also saw the apostles as incorrect and instead believed the gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law.

 

[crossnote]

David had to do works along with his faith, like everyone else under law. And yet, those animal sacrifices could not save his son from his sin of adultery, although his own life was spared.

David like other men of faith did works out of a heart of thanksgiving, he did not do them to be justified before God. For that we trust in the perfect obedience of Christ...our righteousness is as filthy rags.

He calls all of us blessed under the grace dispensation, where because of Jesus, we no longer need to do works and yet we are imputed with his righteousness no matter what sin we did, a blessing he did not receive.

David received the blessing just like we do, just like Abraham did...

Romans 4:2-3 NKJV
[2] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [3] For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

You're simply making things up!

 

[Guojing]

David like other men of faith did works out of a heart of thanksgiving, he did not do them to be justified before God. For that we trust in the perfect obedience of Christ...our righteousness is as filthy rags.

David received the blessing just like we do, just like Abraham did...

Romans 4:2-3 NKJV
[2] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [3] For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

You're simply making things up!

I see, so you interpret that Roman passage as David was talking about himself? Okay, I have met other Christians who also share the same interpretation as you. That is fine.

Actually I regard your views more of Covenant Theology, rather than dispensationalism. As far as CT goes, the covenant of grace started after Adam sinned against God. And every dispensation after that, even the law dispensation that begun thru Moses, are seen in the light of Jesus's death on the cross. They believed that every believer after Adam was saved by grace thru faith in Jesus's DBR.

Thus, it shows in the way you interpret all these passages. David was under the law dispensation unlike Abraham, and yet you believe that David has the same type of blessings as Abraham.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are reading Matt 24 through your dispensational specs.

(Mat 24:33 “So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! )

(Mat 24:34 “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. )

So either all these things came upon that generation or none of them did, there is no valid way to split all these things into some in this generation and some in that (future) generation.

Well if they did happen, We would see evidence.
Since we have no evidence they did

1. Jesus did not return
2. All life was not threatened, or could be threatened at that time
3. The mount of olives looks the same today as it did before christ walked on the scene
4. There was never an abomination which causes desolation in that day (just as Jesus predicted, the temple was DESTROYED in 70 ad (not one stone will be left standing)

You can either continue with your biased preterist based view that things happened inspite of the evidence which proves otherwise.

Or open up your heart and mind and say, wow you know. These things have not happened. Maybe I need to rethink my position.

The choice is yours.

But you telling me I am wrong, or only delluded by my view. Is not going to help you or me out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

During the first Jewish revolt ad66-70 what do you exactly think took place in history.

(A) the Jews worshiped Romes image and Caesar as God and bought and sold with his money,
or
(B) they refused to worship Rome, Caesar or any pagan image as God ,minted their own coins and died to the uttermost to keep Rome from setting up an image in the temple of God and polluting it,, better known as first Jewish revolt.

Also, in that revolt. What did Antiochus epiphanies do?

Did he destroy the temple (as in AD 70)

Or did he fulfill the prophesy of the little horn in daniel 11? And commit an abomination which causes desolation? (Of which in Dan 12, we are told another little horn would do the same things deep into the future in the last days)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

David had to do works along with his faith, like everyone else under law. And yet, those animal sacrifices could not save his son from his sin of adultery, although his own life was spared.

He calls all of us blessed under the grace dispensation, where because of Jesus, we no longer need to do works and yet we are imputed with his righteousness no matter what sin we did, a blessing he did not receive.

David said in his prayer of repentance in psalms for his grave sin, that God did not desire sacrifice and burnt offering for his sin (he understood it could not cause his forgiveness)

You mistaken about the law man, If the law could save anyone, Jesus did not have to come. Paul made this clear.

 

[crossnote]

I see, so you interpret that Roman passage as David was talking about himself? Okay, I have met other Christians who also share the same interpretation as you. That is fine.

Read it again, Abraham...

Romans 4:2-4 NKJV
[2] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [3] For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." [4] Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

And David (not just talking about himself but for all believers)...

Romans 4:5-8 NKJV
[5] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, [6] just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: [7] "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; [8] Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."

So please don't put words in my mouth as you did in the first sentence of your quote.